What does your 4th or 5th grader like to read that isn’t complete crap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the crap is crap. I was at the library recently and the dad specifically told his kids, no graphic novels, and I wish I had known to do the same when my kids were younger.

Seriously? There’s literally no reason to limit.

Yes, there is. Graphic novels don't require the same level of focus as novels do. It's that whole Lucy Calkin thing - "just look at the pictures!" When you try to make the leap into reading books that require sustained focus, have longer sentences and no pictures to explain the plot, it's hard, particularly for older children.

Uh sure. But forcing a 9 year old to read something they are not interested in is WAY MORE damaging than allowing them to read anything for fun. You could certainly suggest novels or denser reading. But to force it will make ALL reading harder. If your kid looks forward to library time because they know they can read a silly graphic novel, that is much more valuable than forcing them to read Harry Potter in 4th grade.

My 5th grader was a reluctant reader, especially for pleasure. I have never limited her. She had read many many graphic novels. To help her, we read thicker novels together, with me doing most of the reading out loud. She loves it. And now, finally, she is picking up novel to read on her own more than graphic novels. But we are a judgement free zone about it. Her reading time is allowed to be magazines, graphic novels, picture books, the dictionary, I don't care. As long as she's turning through a book and seeing what's inside.

Not PP, but I imagine this depends on the reader. My 3 kids are voracious readers. When they don't want to read a book I think they should read, I just read a few chapters out loud to them and they are hooked and take it from me to finish the plot. Obviously a kid who finds it to be torture turning the pages wouldn't do that. Assuming OP's kid actually likes to read, picking something that OP finds to have literary value and OP's kid will likely like is a good thing for the kid. And there are really easy ways of hooking them. For a kid who doesn't like to read as much, it's a lot more work. But you yourself are putting in the work to get there.

I'm always shocked at the parents who judge those of us who want our kids to build their brains when they read some times. My kids read for hours. It's OK for me to want that to be time well spent. And I'm hardly causing them to hate reading.

[Anonymous]

Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

+1 we are also a no graphic novel family. I always encourage good quality literature. I don’t ban graphic novels, but have never suggested them to my kids. My oldest was exposed to his first graphic novel in middle school AAP - shockingly. He thought it was a joke. The regular classes were also doing it. I guess it was easier for the teacher. Both of my kids are now strong students, AAP and honors/AP kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

+1 we are also a no graphic novel family. I always encourage good quality literature. I don’t ban graphic novels, but have never suggested them to my kids. My oldest was exposed to his first graphic novel in middle school AAP - shockingly. He thought it was a joke. The regular classes were also doing it. I guess it was easier for the teacher. Both of my kids are now strong students, AAP and honors/AP kids.

FWIW I'm a PP who makes my kids read quality literature and only sometimes lets them read cupcake books. There are good graphic novels out there. We don't only read them (at all), but my kids have enjoyed comic book retellings of Shakespeare and ancient myths (Marcia Williams), Ben Hatke's graphic novels, books and books of comics like Calvin and Hobbes or Garfield, and Hereville: How Mirka Got Her Sword among others. Is it all I want my kids to read? No. Is it fine? Yes. They also read a ton of amazingly illustrated Caldecott picture books when that was age appropriate. I mean - Paul O. Zelensky's illustrations or Bagram Ibatoulline's could easily hang in an art museum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Disagree that “forcing” them to read something is damaging. That isn’t true, not exactly. They don’t know what they are missing out on because they haven’t been exposed to better literature. It’s your job as a parent to provide this exposure, even if they are reluctant.

Next time they go to the library. They can pick a graphic novel, but they also need to pick another type of novel. Give them a list of options or ask the librarian for a recommendation based on other books they’ve enjoyed. There is no reason they can’t read both graphic novels AND better literature. Get a second copy and you read it too and make a book club out of it.

I would also encourage you to read aloud to them nightly too. It’s another great way to expose them to better quality literature they’ve enjoyed won’t or can’t read on their own

+1 we are also a no graphic novel family. I always encourage good quality literature. I don’t ban graphic novels, but have never suggested them to my kids. My oldest was exposed to his first graphic novel in middle school AAP - shockingly. He thought it was a joke. The regular classes were also doing it. I guess it was easier for the teacher. Both of my kids are now strong students, AAP and honors/AP kids.

FWIW I'm a PP who makes my kids read quality literature and only sometimes lets them read cupcake books. There are good graphic novels out there. We don't only read them (at all), but my kids have enjoyed comic book retellings of Shakespeare and ancient myths (Marcia Williams), Ben Hatke's graphic novels, books and books of comics like Calvin and Hobbes or Garfield, and Hereville: How Mirka Got Her Sword among others. Is it all I want my kids to read? No. Is it fine? Yes. They also read a ton of amazingly illustrated Caldecott picture books when that was age appropriate. I mean - Paul O. Zelensky's illustrations or Bagram Ibatoulline's could easily hang in an art museum.

I don’t doubt it. I just don’t know anything about what makes a good graphic novel and I don’t care to take the time to research it. Like I said, if my kid happens to pick up a graphic novel, I don’t ban it. But they haven’t picked them up on their own and generally read the books I suggest, which are a combo on Newberry medal and ones I grew up with. They’ve been fully satisfied and engaged with those.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

Not PP, but just pick better graphic novels then. Ones where both the art (because yes, they can be straight art) and literary aspects are high quality. And yes those exist.

The problem isn't genre-specific. Open any Rainbow Fairies book and tell me that's going to really improve kids minds either.

[Anonymous]

Every single time this comes up, people jump in with the "graphic novels are just as good and promote good vocabularies." That's not our take -- while we do allow the kids to read some graphic novels (even the dumbest ones), they're no substitute for chapter books.

My oldest will read anything and everything, including classic novels. My youngest (age 8) is not like that. She usually just wants to read graphic novels, but she will read things like old Babysitters' Club books, the Princess Diaries series, and the Whatever After series. My rule is that if we're at a bookstore, I'll buy any chapter book she wants. She can use her own money to buy graphic novels if she wants to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My graphic novel-loving tween is now a teen reading Enders Game for school and proceeded to talk about the plot for 20 minutes straight last night.

Let them love to read! Let them call themselves bookworms and define themselves as readers. They are kids, they don’t get to choose much of what they do in school, you probably choose most of their food—let them have choice in what they read as long as it’s appropriate.

This. My 6th grader blows through books, including tons of graphic novels. He'll also read articles I pass along from the New Yorker.

Let them be!

[Anonymous]

All the Stuart Gibbs books!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

Not PP, but just pick better graphic novels then. Ones where both the art (because yes, they can be straight art) and literary aspects are high quality. And yes those exist.

The problem isn't genre-specific. Open any Rainbow Fairies book and tell me that's going to really improve kids minds either.

I don’t know if you did this upthread, but can you recommend some of the “better graphics novels where both art and literary aspects are high quality”?

[Anonymous]

Spy School and Fun Jungle series by Stuart Gibbs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

Not PP, but just pick better graphic novels then. Ones where both the art (because yes, they can be straight art) and literary aspects are high quality. And yes those exist.

The problem isn't genre-specific. Open any Rainbow Fairies book and tell me that's going to really improve kids minds either.

I don’t know if you did this upthread, but can you recommend some of the “better graphics novels where both art and literary aspects are high quality”?

Ben Hatke is a good one, as I mentioned upthread. Zita the Spacegirl and Mighty Jack. Marcia Williams for classics (more in comic form than graphic novel form). My kids really like Nathan Hale but I think some sensitive 4th graders might hate the violence level.

[Anonymous]

The thing is that a lot of parents think that graphic novels AREN'T appropriate reading material for a growing brain. It's pictures. It's a comic book (yes, I know, the art is museum-worthy, the words are SAT-level). These parents (including me) think that graphic novels may be OK as a treat but there are real benefits to encouraging kids to read wall-of-text, no pictures, use-your-imagination literature.

I KNOW some kids prefer graphic novels. They also would spend all day watching YouTube if you let them. The explosion and reliance on graphic novels feels to me of a piece with social media, internet "culture," shortened attention spans, and the dumbing down of media generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a librarian and parent to a third grader I would strongly encourage you to reevaluate how you see graphic novels! According to research, graphic novels have incredible language variation and require readers to use both sides of their brains at the same time, stimulating a different kind of learning.

“While comic books and graphic novels may contain fewer words per page than the average chapter book, the authors are required to choose their words more carefully. “[They] reach for a higher-level vocabulary word that says in one word what the average person might take six or seven words to say,” said Jones. A study by the University of Oregon found that comic books average 53.5 rare words per thousand, while children’s books average 30.9, and adult books average 52.7.”

https://www.kqed.org/mindshift/64402/how-debunking-myths-about-graphic-novels-and-comics-can-unlock-learning

Open any dogman book and then tell me with a straight face about the “higher-level vocabulary”.

NP. You’re bad at critical thinking.