Best country for socially integrating kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Canada is by far the least culturally and environmentally disruptive as a move, for kids/families.

If I didn't have kids and two parents with failing health who need my support, and a business full of people who count on me that would shut down if I left, I would be going now. People who refuse to recognize what's happening, I hope to God you're right and those of us who are fearful about what we're seeing are wrong. But I think the tipping point will be whether the court rulings hold, and if they don't, it will be too late and we'll be too far gone. Now's the time to leave if you want to leave. You can always come back if things stabilize. Trump has made clear what he intends to do, he' actively doing it, and his followers will deny to the end that it's the catastrophe for US democracy that it is. The playbook is not unique, it's history playing out in the same ways but just a new context, and people are refusing to see it because they don't want to and they're frankly brainwashed by this guy. (Wild. I saw a meme this week that said "I thought the antichrist would at least be good looking" - I mean THIS is who you're going to worship to the point of toppling of our democracy? Truly wild. ) I wish I could move my family without hardship to others - I'd be leaving now.

I understand what you are saying and have looked into Canada myself. I have worked as a fed contractor my entire career though and am unsure how I’d support myself. It’s not like I’m a nurse or software developer or someone who can work anywhere.

You should try to get a job in the Canadian government.

The one that went bankrupt in 1998/9 and is currently driving itself into the ground again? Good luck.

FYI they also ceased issuing highly educated migrant work visas to white collated foreigners in 2022/3. Can only recruit Canadians. A bunch of senior job searches got narrowed in scope then and USA headhunters stopped taking mandates there.

Even doctors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Canada is by far the least culturally and environmentally disruptive as a move, for kids/families.

If I didn't have kids and two parents with failing health who need my support, and a business full of people who count on me that would shut down if I left, I would be going now. People who refuse to recognize what's happening, I hope to God you're right and those of us who are fearful about what we're seeing are wrong. But I think the tipping point will be whether the court rulings hold, and if they don't, it will be too late and we'll be too far gone. Now's the time to leave if you want to leave. You can always come back if things stabilize. Trump has made clear what he intends to do, he' actively doing it, and his followers will deny to the end that it's the catastrophe for US democracy that it is. The playbook is not unique, it's history playing out in the same ways but just a new context, and people are refusing to see it because they don't want to and they're frankly brainwashed by this guy. (Wild. I saw a meme this week that said "I thought the antichrist would at least be good looking" - I mean THIS is who you're going to worship to the point of toppling of our democracy? Truly wild. ) I wish I could move my family without hardship to others - I'd be leaving now.

I understand what you are saying and have looked into Canada myself. I have worked as a fed contractor my entire career though and am unsure how I’d support myself. It’s not like I’m a nurse or software developer or someone who can work anywhere.

Just FYI, a nurse cannot "work anywhere." Not even in the U.S. Even if you have a compact license, there are states that are non-compacted and require a different license. You will need to go through the process as a foreign educated nurse if you want to work outside of the U.S. I have friends that have done this but just because you are a nurse, you can't just decide to move. Many countries would require you to be bilingual because you do need to communicate with your patients. So, while, theoretically you can work anywhere, there are significant barriers and nursing as a profession is very different in the U.S. compared to many countries.

A lot of European countries are hiring nurses from the Philippines and doctors from India.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Canada is by far the least culturally and environmentally disruptive as a move, for kids/families.

If I didn't have kids and two parents with failing health who need my support, and a business full of people who count on me that would shut down if I left, I would be going now. People who refuse to recognize what's happening, I hope to God you're right and those of us who are fearful about what we're seeing are wrong. But I think the tipping point will be whether the court rulings hold, and if they don't, it will be too late and we'll be too far gone. Now's the time to leave if you want to leave. You can always come back if things stabilize. Trump has made clear what he intends to do, he' actively doing it, and his followers will deny to the end that it's the catastrophe for US democracy that it is. The playbook is not unique, it's history playing out in the same ways but just a new context, and people are refusing to see it because they don't want to and they're frankly brainwashed by this guy. (Wild. I saw a meme this week that said "I thought the antichrist would at least be good looking" - I mean THIS is who you're going to worship to the point of toppling of our democracy? Truly wild. ) I wish I could move my family without hardship to others - I'd be leaving now.

I understand what you are saying and have looked into Canada myself. I have worked as a fed contractor my entire career though and am unsure how I’d support myself. It’s not like I’m a nurse or software developer or someone who can work anywhere.

You should try to get a job in the Canadian government.

The one that went bankrupt in 1998/9 and is currently driving itself into the ground again? Good luck.

FYI they also ceased issuing highly educated migrant work visas to white collated foreigners in 2022/3. Can only recruit Canadians. A bunch of senior job searches got narrowed in scope then and USA headhunters stopped taking mandates there.

Even doctors?

Agree with the PP talking about doctor and nursing licenses: most do not transfer to other countries unless a deliberate reciprocity or joint medical board and education process is set up.

Our Uk friend could not get licensed in USa nor Canada when they wanted to move here for her husband’s start up job. She would have had to redo medical school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think you need to better define what integration and least disruptive looks like to you.

Based on what you've posted, your best options are Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK. Canada is so culturally similar to the US and the accent is the closest, so that would likely be the least disruptive.

I'll suggest another option, which may not be palatable to you: join a large expat community. For example, Saudi Arabia has a fantastic expat community of people working in oil. The Saudis and other Muslim nationalities don't mix with the expats, so you're basically in a western community inside of an eastern nation. You are still in Saudi Arabia, and must observe their laws. But within these communities, you're not required to wear an Abaya and you're allowed a lot of activities that make for a normal western life. The $ is very attractive.

My god, this sounds like hell on earth. I’d stay right here if that were the main option.

I’m not sure we’re going to be much different than Saudi Arabia. A theocracy with authoritarian rule, minus the sand.

You have no idea how bad life under Islamic fundamentalist rule is.

I have known dozens of American families who have lived in KSA over the years. They all liked it. Especially those with kids. Compound living is apparently quite nice.

Same. I have family that lived on the Aramco compound. They had tennis instructors, swim teachers (they had their own private pool and tennis courts), maids, chefs, chauffeurs, etc.. they were living the good life. They also could wear what they wanted, as long as they remained in the compound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

Agree. I’d argue they are more cultured, multilingual and more “poised” than any kid who grows up in the US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

Yet you put your kids in an international school where the majority of the children are expats. Why not have your kids in a local school where they can integrate with the locals and learn the country’s language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

You mean well-connected rich kids receiving an elite education and insulating themselves from local populations as they gallivant the world in their parents exclusive international social circles have great chances of becoming leaders? Shocking.

There are tons of ordinary people who chose a career in foreign service. They are not elites or well connected, except for very high up the chain.

There are ups and downs to the ex-pat life, but Americans that have been through that lifestyle are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It’s easy to recognize that they and their kids are different as soon as you meet them. They are usually a much better class of human than their peers over here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:99% chance this will never happen.

Sheesh. As a long time former expat (15 years abroad) the grass is never greener on the other side of the fence. You want to leave US totalitarianism for.... Singaporean or UAE totalitarianism? Or EU countries that all have major populist movements?

Not op but just curious, how does this affect a normal expat (other than the right to protest)?

Because expats are treated like residents not like tourists. The gloves come off.

[Anonymous]

So you have zero ties to another country and you want to rip your child away from their close friend group for literal strangers?

Please don’t do this! At least get some contacts, visit the country a couple times, make some friends and join some groups and research schools!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

You mean well-connected rich kids receiving an elite education and insulating themselves from local populations as they gallivant the world in their parents exclusive international social circles have great chances of becoming leaders? Shocking.

There are tons of ordinary people who chose a career in foreign service. They are not elites or well connected, except for very high up the chain.

There are ups and downs to the ex-pat life, but Americans that have been through that lifestyle are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It’s easy to recognize that they and their kids are different as soon as you meet them. They are usually a much better class of human than their peers over here.

NP. I lived abroad for a few years in my early 20s, mostly as a teacher’s assistant in American schools. A few years ago I met a new neighbor and my first thought about her was that she had “an expat vibe.” Hard to explain exactly what I mean, but expats seem to be affected by their need to settle in quickly and create community quickly in the places they live. They tend to become very generous with their offers of help and advice and open to socializing with people who are not exactly like them.

(It did turn out that she works for an international NGO and lived and studied abroad in her earlier years.)

Of the American families I knew at the American schools, there were definitely pluses and minuses to their lifestyle but I found it appealing overall. I was particularly impressed with the way they seemed to develop a sense that “home” was their connection with each other, wherever that might take place, as opposed to a single geographical place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

You mean well-connected rich kids receiving an elite education and insulating themselves from local populations as they gallivant the world in their parents exclusive international social circles have great chances of becoming leaders? Shocking.

There are tons of ordinary people who chose a career in foreign service. They are not elites or well connected, except for very high up the chain.

There are ups and downs to the ex-pat life, but Americans that have been through that lifestyle are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It’s easy to recognize that they and their kids are different as soon as you meet them. They are usually a much better class of human than their peers over here.

Actually every Foreign Service family I know has had at least one kid struggle big time with the frequent moves and isolation. Really big time. These are anecdotes, but consistent across multiple families. And I won't get started responding to the "much better class of human" bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are seriously thinking about leaving the country. One of my biggest concerns is leaving DC’s tight circle of friends.

We are fortunate that visas are not an issue - we have the right to go to multiple Commonwealth and EU countries through family. Which would be the best for kids making friends? I have found some Brits vicious but appreciate that there’s no language barrier. Would Ireland be more friendly? I don’t want this to be more disruptive than it has to be. Thanks in advance for your advice!

Definitely one of the EU countries because they have the largest percentage of white people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

You mean well-connected rich kids receiving an elite education and insulating themselves from local populations as they gallivant the world in their parents exclusive international social circles have great chances of becoming leaders? Shocking.

There are tons of ordinary people who chose a career in foreign service. They are not elites or well connected, except for very high up the chain.

There are ups and downs to the ex-pat life, but Americans that have been through that lifestyle are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It’s easy to recognize that they and their kids are different as soon as you meet them. They are usually a much better class of human than their peers over here.

That's not integration with locals. That is isolating with a very specific group of American people who are transient and feel superior to others, including the country they live in for a few years, without truly mingling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whenever I hear about people doing this I think of all the people from those same countries who chose to come to and stay in the US.

Yes, it doesn't seem like it at times, but American kids (allllll American kids living here in America) have the best chance to be well-socialized, confident leaders.

This is such an insular view of the world. As an American expat who has lived in 4 other countries, I can assure you the rest of the world socializes their kids just fine. And attending private international schools abroad produces highly confident future leaders, with a broad world view.

You mean well-connected rich kids receiving an elite education and insulating themselves from local populations as they gallivant the world in their parents exclusive international social circles have great chances of becoming leaders? Shocking.

There are tons of ordinary people who chose a career in foreign service. They are not elites or well connected, except for very high up the chain.

There are ups and downs to the ex-pat life, but Americans that have been through that lifestyle are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. It’s easy to recognize that they and their kids are different as soon as you meet them. They are usually a much better class of human than their peers over here.

That's not integration with locals. That is isolating with a very specific group of American people who are transient and feel superior to others, including the country they live in for a few years, without truly mingling.

That's the foreign service people. I've lived in a few countries where the divide between the expats who were foreign service and those who weren't was almost comical. They arrive thinking they already know everything based on whatever briefings the get, have an air of superiority thanks only to a diplomatic passport, and generally spend so little time in each country (2-4 yrs) that they barely understand it and have integrated before they go to the next corner of the world. ANd it's not like they go from Denmark to Sweden or Tajikistan to Turkmenistan or Chile to Bolivia so there might be cultural overlap. Its from Greece to Japan or similar. Such a weird system.

[Anonymous]

Ireland. Germany.