Algebra 1 - In 6th Grade

[Anonymous]

This is kind of crazy to me.

In prior years, typically around 30 students across all 142 FCPS elementary schools took Algebra 1 in sixth grade. This year, more than 700 students are doing so, either by attending a class in their own elementary school or by taking a virtual class if the number of participating students at their base school isn’t enough for a full classroom.

And it's only 1/3 of FCPS elementary schools offering it this year. They are going to have to find some more math classes to offer in high school. Won't these kids run out of math classes junior year? What if they end up not wanting to take Calculus (no way does every 6th grader taking algebra know they will continue an interest in high level math)? Are there other options to continue taking math all 4 years of high school - which I think colleges want to see. I know about AP statistics, Calc AB and Calc BC. What else is there beyond Algebra 2?

[Anonymous]

I teach AAP 6th and am certified in Algebra and middle school math. My school is not doing the pilot. But, I do offer extensions into Algebra concepts. I am against this pilot though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS’s article about the new program is insane. They’ve got all these sixth graders talking about how good this is going to look on their college applications, and the grade in the course is going on their high school transcripts that will be used in those applications. When I was in sixth grade I was only vaguely aware on college, and I certainly wasn’t ready to have my middle school grades considered as part of my college applications (and for the record I had a 4.0 in high school and went to Stanford—I would not have had a 4.0 if my sixth grade math grade were included in my high school GPA).

https://www.fcps.edu/news/sixth-graders-tackle-algebra-two-years-ahead-schedule-expanding-access-math-rigor

This whole thing just seems incredibly misguided. They’ll be taking calculus as 10th graders. Does every high school offer two years of math beyond calculus? Do colleges want students who finished calculus two years early? This just seems like a nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, I have a 7th grader taking Algebra and I was already worried about high school math options. Even crazier for 6th grade start. Can someone lay out the math class options through high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCPS’s article about the new program is insane. They’ve got all these sixth graders talking about how good this is going to look on their college applications, and the grade in the course is going on their high school transcripts that will be used in those applications. When I was in sixth grade I was only vaguely aware on college, and I certainly wasn’t ready to have my middle school grades considered as part of my college applications (and for the record I had a 4.0 in high school and went to Stanford—I would not have had a 4.0 if my sixth grade math grade were included in my high school GPA).

https://www.fcps.edu/news/sixth-graders-tackle-algebra-two-years-ahead-schedule-expanding-access-math-rigor

Knowledge of college and wanting to attend a good college is not really surprising in an area with a larger percentage of the population holding graduate degrees. Most kids know people with PhDs at many of the schools in FCPS. Parents are activly rooting for their College Sports teams. There are college flags waving all over the place. Alumni events are not exactly uncommon. Neighborhoods have kids going to college. ES start talking about college early on, especially at Title 1 and near Title 1 schools as a way of encouraging kids to stay focused on school. Young Scholars and other programs are geared to help kids see school as important and to think about attending college.

This is most likely a response to the increasing number of kids taking Geometry in the summer between 7th and 8th grade because they kid, or their parent, is desperate to get their kid into Algebra 2 in 8th grade.

I would agree that most kids are not ready for A1H in 6th grade. I don't have an issue with the pilot program, a few FCPS schools offered the opportunity, but the vast majority did not. For those of us with kids who love math and are strong at math, it was frustrating. DS has been active in math competitions, his choice, since he was in 4th grade. He scored in the 99th percentile on the AMC 8 as a 6th grader. He would have been fine in A1H if he had the opportunity.

The pilot is rushed, and I don't think that they did a great job in establishing criteria for participating. Nor do I think that they are doing a good job in offering it. Virtual classes for something like A1H for 6th graders is not a good choice. Offer it at Centers and require that kids participating have to move to the Center, so they have the kids for at least one class full of kids and a certified teacher. I suspect that they have selected far too many students and am disappointed to hear that they are adding kids to the class based on parent demand. This is a class that should have a strict selection process that is not flexible.

I hope that they have some type of evaluation towards the end of the quarter and move students who are not understanding the material back to the regular AAP math class. I wish they could have a policy that if a child earns below a B that the grade is expunged and they have to retake the class.

As for classes for kids that far ahead, there are classes. Most every school offers multivariate calculus and linear algebra. Plenty of schools offer DE math classes beyond that. And if you think that there are a lot of kids in A1H in the Title 1 schools feeding into the lower SES HS you are crazy. This is mainly going to be at MC and UMC ES where the HS are used to having kids accelerated in math, it is not going to be hard to accommodate a larger group of accelerated kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Algebra I in sixth grade honestly requires a certain level of maturity that has nothing to do with mathematical ability. I took Pre-Algebra in sixth grade and had Bs until 4th quarter. At that point something clicked about getting assignments done accurately and properly preparing for tests, and I had straight As from then through the end of high school. I would not have been mature enough to handle Algebra I in sixth grade even though I probably could have understood the content.

+1 50 kids in Algebra 1 at one ES. Make it make sense.

Some parents are really underestimating the degree to which good organizational skills are actually more important than raw intelligence for academic success. Better to focus on exceeding academic requirements (eg consistently completing assignments on time and perfectly and achieving high test scores) instead of pushing ahead in the curriculum. Career and academic success are defined more by good executive functioning and social skills than completing modules as quickly as possible. I am not opposed to algebra I for 7th graders, btw. That’s what I did and it meant that I was part of a cohort of much more motivated kids.

Unfortunately the Tesla drivers want status and to be able to brag that their 6th graders are in Algebra.

This made me laugh. My ds did RSM one year and we used to count the number of Teslas doing drop off. I was definitely an outlier in my eight year old minivan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is kind of crazy to me.

In prior years, typically around 30 students across all 142 FCPS elementary schools took Algebra 1 in sixth grade. This year, more than 700 students are doing so, either by attending a class in their own elementary school or by taking a virtual class if the number of participating students at their base school isn’t enough for a full classroom.

And it's only 1/3 of FCPS elementary schools offering it this year. They are going to have to find some more math classes to offer in high school. Won't these kids run out of math classes junior year? What if they end up not wanting to take Calculus (no way does every 6th grader taking algebra know they will continue an interest in high level math)? Are there other options to continue taking math all 4 years of high school - which I think colleges want to see. I know about AP statistics, Calc AB and Calc BC. What else is there beyond Algebra 2?

At our elementary school you can just pester the principal and he will put your kid in Algebra. He is still placing kids into that class a month and a half later.

[Anonymous]

I am a STEM professor and I’m becoming increasingly frustrated at the way many students view their education as a series of boxes to be checked rather than an opportunity to learn. Now that I have kids who are getting older, I can see that this starts early. The school districts create this mentality of “hurry up and get to the next thing”. It’s a real problem when mentoring them in a research lab because they aren’t learning how to think about scientific questions in a way that will help them become independent investigators one day. Parents seem very caught up in which AP courses are offered at their kids’ high school. These kids are taking AP courses in subjects on which they have no interest, all so they can show rigor on their college applications. Again, just boxes to be checked rather than exploring interests. Very few students show true intellectual curiosity anymore. They just want to know what they need to do to get a certain grade or to get the project done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a STEM professor and I’m becoming increasingly frustrated at the way many students view their education as a series of boxes to be checked rather than an opportunity to learn. Now that I have kids who are getting older, I can see that this starts early. The school districts create this mentality of “hurry up and get to the next thing”. It’s a real problem when mentoring them in a research lab because they aren’t learning how to think about scientific questions in a way that will help them become independent investigators one day. Parents seem very caught up in which AP courses are offered at their kids’ high school. These kids are taking AP courses in subjects on which they have no interest, all so they can show rigor on their college applications. Again, just boxes to be checked rather than exploring interests. Very few students show true intellectual curiosity anymore. They just want to know what they need to do to get a certain grade or to get the project done.

The place where the blame lies is with the colleges and their admissions process and not with ES, MS or HS. ES, MS and HS programs and kids are merely responding to the onslaught of information being put out by admissions offices at colleges, college counselors, high school counselors and products like Naviance which tells a kid whether they are "on track" to get into the college they are interested in. It has become a crazy mess and I totally agree that it is all about a checkbox mark, but I disagree on where to place the blame--it absolutely belongs with colleges and the state of college admissions today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a STEM professor and I’m becoming increasingly frustrated at the way many students view their education as a series of boxes to be checked rather than an opportunity to learn. Now that I have kids who are getting older, I can see that this starts early. The school districts create this mentality of “hurry up and get to the next thing”. It’s a real problem when mentoring them in a research lab because they aren’t learning how to think about scientific questions in a way that will help them become independent investigators one day. Parents seem very caught up in which AP courses are offered at their kids’ high school. These kids are taking AP courses in subjects on which they have no interest, all so they can show rigor on their college applications. Again, just boxes to be checked rather than exploring interests. Very few students show true intellectual curiosity anymore. They just want to know what they need to do to get a certain grade or to get the project done.

The place where the blame lies is with the colleges and their admissions process and not with ES, MS or HS. ES, MS and HS programs and kids are merely responding to the onslaught of information being put out by admissions offices at colleges, college counselors, high school counselors and products like Naviance which tells a kid whether they are "on track" to get into the college they are interested in. It has become a crazy mess and I totally agree that it is all about a checkbox mark, but I disagree on where to place the blame--it absolutely belongs with colleges and the state of college admissions today.

Agreed! I have a high school sophomore and it feels like there is no room to enjoy education. Even schools that used to be "safety" schools are no longer a sure thing unless you take lots of APs and do well in them. Not trying to get into some top tier college, just getting in anywhere requires a lot of "boxes" being checked and checked well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FCPS’s article about the new program is insane. They’ve got all these sixth graders talking about how good this is going to look on their college applications, and the grade in the course is going on their high school transcripts that will be used in those applications. When I was in sixth grade I was only vaguely aware on college, and I certainly wasn’t ready to have my middle school grades considered as part of my college applications (and for the record I had a 4.0 in high school and went to Stanford—I would not have had a 4.0 if my sixth grade math grade were included in my high school GPA).

https://www.fcps.edu/news/sixth-graders-tackle-algebra-two-years-ahead-schedule-expanding-access-math-rigor

Knowledge of college and wanting to attend a good college is not really surprising in an area with a larger percentage of the population holding graduate degrees. Most kids know people with PhDs at many of the schools in FCPS. Parents are activly rooting for their College Sports teams. There are college flags waving all over the place. Alumni events are not exactly uncommon. Neighborhoods have kids going to college. ES start talking about college early on, especially at Title 1 and near Title 1 schools as a way of encouraging kids to stay focused on school. Young Scholars and other programs are geared to help kids see school as important and to think about attending college.

This is most likely a response to the increasing number of kids taking Geometry in the summer between 7th and 8th grade because they kid, or their parent, is desperate to get their kid into Algebra 2 in 8th grade.

I would agree that most kids are not ready for A1H in 6th grade. I don't have an issue with the pilot program, a few FCPS schools offered the opportunity, but the vast majority did not. For those of us with kids who love math and are strong at math, it was frustrating. DS has been active in math competitions, his choice, since he was in 4th grade. He scored in the 99th percentile on the AMC 8 as a 6th grader. He would have been fine in A1H if he had the opportunity.

The pilot is rushed, and I don't think that they did a great job in establishing criteria for participating. Nor do I think that they are doing a good job in offering it. Virtual classes for something like A1H for 6th graders is not a good choice. Offer it at Centers and require that kids participating have to move to the Center, so they have the kids for at least one class full of kids and a certified teacher. I suspect that they have selected far too many students and am disappointed to hear that they are adding kids to the class based on parent demand. This is a class that should have a strict selection process that is not flexible.

I hope that they have some type of evaluation towards the end of the quarter and move students who are not understanding the material back to the regular AAP math class. I wish they could have a policy that if a child earns below a B that the grade is expunged and they have to retake the class.

As for classes for kids that far ahead, there are classes. Most every school offers multivariate calculus and linear algebra. Plenty of schools offer DE math classes beyond that. And if you think that there are a lot of kids in A1H in the Title 1 schools feeding into the lower SES HS you are crazy. This is mainly going to be at MC and UMC ES where the HS are used to having kids accelerated in math, it is not going to be hard to accommodate a larger group of accelerated kids.

The problem is that the kids are basically just parroting what their parents are saying about college, and now we're going to have a whole bunch of really stressed out sixth graders who are worried about whether they'll get into Harvard--they couldn't possibly know why they want to go there other than getting a fancy diploma. When I was in sixth grade I was aware that my dad had gone to Stanford, and that my grandad had also gone, but college admissions wasn't a topic of discussion in our house at all. There was always a very heavy emphasis on learning for learning's sake and I was encouraged to pursue my extracurriculars. My mom did read about the full IB diploma that was offered at my high school and talked that up, so I was interested in doing it. But it wasn't until my junior year of high school that we really started discussing college admissions. My dad suggested University of Chicago, which at that time was basically a safety school for kids with perfect grades and a demonstrated record of loving academics. I was the one who decided to apply to Stanford. Obviously they were happy when I got in. But the entire process leading up to that was about promoting a love of learning, not just achieving some kind of credential.

Parents need to instill a love of learning in their kids, and not just move the college admissions arms race into middle school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I have a 7th grader taking Algebra and I was already worried about high school math options. Even crazier for 6th grade start. Can someone lay out the math class options through high school?

Can do AP AB Calculus, AP BC Calculus and AP Stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a STEM professor and I’m becoming increasingly frustrated at the way many students view their education as a series of boxes to be checked rather than an opportunity to learn. Now that I have kids who are getting older, I can see that this starts early. The school districts create this mentality of “hurry up and get to the next thing”. It’s a real problem when mentoring them in a research lab because they aren’t learning how to think about scientific questions in a way that will help them become independent investigators one day. Parents seem very caught up in which AP courses are offered at their kids’ high school. These kids are taking AP courses in subjects on which they have no interest, all so they can show rigor on their college applications. Again, just boxes to be checked rather than exploring interests. Very few students show true intellectual curiosity anymore. They just want to know what they need to do to get a certain grade or to get the project done.

The place where the blame lies is with the colleges and their admissions process and not with ES, MS or HS. ES, MS and HS programs and kids are merely responding to the onslaught of information being put out by admissions offices at colleges, college counselors, high school counselors and products like Naviance which tells a kid whether they are "on track" to get into the college they are interested in. It has become a crazy mess and I totally agree that it is all about a checkbox mark, but I disagree on where to place the blame--it absolutely belongs with colleges and the state of college admissions today.

I am sure this comes as no surprise, but the people in upper admin and the admissions offices certainly don’t ask professors what they want to see in the students they will be teaching. So I would hope parents can talk to their kids and tell them that no one is going to be impressed with them once they are in college if all they care about is points on an assignment or completing research or other hand on tasks without understanding why. If they want to be better than AI they will need to bring some kind of value to their future workplace in terms of being able to take in information, think critically about it, and ask the right questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I have a 7th grader taking Algebra and I was already worried about high school math options. Even crazier for 6th grade start. Can someone lay out the math class options through high school?

Can do AP AB Calculus, AP BC Calculus and AP Stats.

That is one possibility but I doubt most kids taking A1H in 6th grade are going to go that route. Most of these kids are going to take AP Calc BC, without taking AB. They might take AP Stats but it will be an elective. The parents pushing for their kids to be in this class are pushing for their kids to take the most rigorous class with an eye towards a top 10 school. There could be kids who were strong at math and end up in A1H at 6th grade and decide it is not their thing and step off the accelerated path.

There are kids ready for this path, more than 30 that were allowed it but the 500-700 that I am reading about in the pilot seems to be far too many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, I have a 7th grader taking Algebra and I was already worried about high school math options. Even crazier for 6th grade start. Can someone lay out the math class options through high school?

Can do AP AB Calculus, AP BC Calculus and AP Stats.

That is one possibility but I doubt most kids taking A1H in 6th grade are going to go that route. Most of these kids are going to take AP Calc BC, without taking AB. They might take AP Stats but it will be an elective. The parents pushing for their kids to be in this class are pushing for their kids to take the most rigorous class with an eye towards a top 10 school. There could be kids who were strong at math and end up in A1H at 6th grade and decide it is not their thing and step off the accelerated path.

There are kids ready for this path, more than 30 that were allowed it but the 500-700 that I am reading about in the pilot seems to be far too many.

No one is pushing. Our kids were automatically placed in the class. The only pushing is pushing to get them out.