Algebra 1 - In 6th Grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

Do you also tell the parents of athletic kids to remove their children from baseball or gymnastics and instead enroll them in academic lessons? Most parents let their child's passions dictate the activities they sign up for.

My kid has zero interest in learning piano, so why would I spend money on it? The music lessons at school are enough to keep him learning and challenged in a way that holds his interest. The math is not (until this year) holding his interest, and he wanted more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

My kid does RSM, soccer, and Scouts. He chooses his activities, I like the balance that he has found.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Yes. My child has never done math enrichment and has a 98% after 2 quizzes and 2 tests in 6th grade algebra 1.

As for why? Because my child was miserable in school from K-5 math. We had a 504 for school refusal because it was so unbelievably slow for them that they called it "torture" (a bit melodramatic, but they truly were miserable). It's not a push for the right kid, it's meeting them where they are.

Would you make a kid who was fluent in Spanish start in spanish 1, just because that's the "normal" sequence for a 7th grader? No, it's why FCPS offers "Spanish for fluent speakers". Algebra 1 in 6th grade is "math for fluent mathematicians".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Many of the parents who discuss the normal math path as holding kids back are doing so because they are aware that math is taught differently internationally.

And yes, there are kids who would be ready for A1H in 6th grade without outside enrichment. There are kids who grasp math concepts easily and are able to apply them. In many cases, parents will look for outside enrichment to encourage the child's natural ability. Some kids might not be interested in outside enrichment and not take it, and that is fine.

There is a perception that every kid doing math competitions and involved in classes like AoPS are there because of pushy parents, I thought that until I had a kid who loves math and was excited when we offered math enrichment as an option. But there are kids who love math and want to take those classes. And there are kids strong in math who don't want to take those classes but are capable of A1H in 6th grade. We know kids who choose M7H over A1H in 7th grade because the kid just isn't into math that much but they qualified for A1H, those same kids might have made the cut off for 6th grade A1H if the class existed then. And I would guess that their parents would choose regular advanced math/6th grade AAP math over A1H.

Most people are fine with the kid who is great on the rec soccer team trying out for the travel team. The kid is strong at soccer, it is natural that they would try for a more competitive team. Why is it different saying that a kid who is strong in math should be happy to do math enrichment outside of school?

There are parents who push their kids into academic enrichment because the parents are focused only on that. There are parents who push their kids into travel sports when the kid doesn't want to be there. There are parents who force music lessons when the kid doesn't want to be there. But for some reason it is the math enrichment that seems to strike the biggest chord for people on this site. I don't get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

Not angry at all. Not sure how you read anger from my post. I do feel like you are trying to go on and on about it though - we get it! Your kid is exceptionally advanced in math and needs algebra in 6th! Please report back how geometry and algebra 2 in middle school go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad that some people cannot fathom taking advanced math/enrichment math for any reason other than to get into TJ or MIT.

[/b]It's no different than travel soccer [b]or private piano lessons for the right kid. We don't do it (because I'm not driving an hour or more each way to get to Vienna/Mclean), but I did look into it at one point because he was bored at school and yet loved math and wanted more, and I don't know how to present it appropriately for his level.

I actually hope my child doesn't go to TJ. The level of stress and pressure there don't seem worth it to me, unless he suddenly becomes passionate about research. I kept him in A1 anyway though, because he is ready for it and excited about it.

(I drive a hyundai)

Yes it is. If it’s no different, then why not just put your child into said sport or piano. I’d argue that that plus your kid already being smart would be a better combo than math enrichment.

#1. Totally agree about TJ - not sure what the advantages actually are, and the downsides are very obvious.
#2. If a kid really loves math, then it's a great hobby and there's no reason to hold the child back. You wouldn't say that if a kid was doing extremely well in violin, we should put them in a math class instead of having them study the Brahms Concerto in order to balance them out. That said, I'd bet that the number of kids who really love math enough to pursue it as a hobby is pretty small. The schools should find a way to accommodate the relatively small number of kids who are really ready to move forward in the curriculum without setting up a large-scale Algebra in Sixth Grade program.

Would child have been ready for Algebra in 6th without the math enrichment outside of school? Ask yourself that. And why is simply taking the normal math offered at school considered “holding a child back.” Why must there be a push to accelerate?

Why are you so angry about the sequence some kids are on?

Are you angry about kids who take private violin lessons and get 1st chair in the orchestra?
Travel baseball players who become starting pitchers in high school?
Kids who take acting classes and get lead roles freshman year?

Or is it only math enrichment that bothers you?

Not angry at all. Not sure how you read anger from my post. I do feel like you are trying to go on and on about it though - we get it! Your kid is exceptionally advanced in math and needs algebra in 6th! Please report back how geometry and algebra 2 in middle school go.

There are something like 300 students taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade, it tends to go well. For the most part, those are kids who took Geometry in the summer. I am sure that there are some kids who struggle and don't do well in Algebra 2 but I would guess that those kids are in the minority.

[Anonymous]

Is the 6th grade Algebra class the same as the high school class Algebra 1 HN and will it be on their transcript? Or is this just elementary school algebra, and kids will still need to take Algebra 1 HN in 7th?

Somehow I doubt after this class many kids will opt to take Geometry HN in 7th.

[Anonymous]

The issue is that, for young students, being very, very good at Math 6/7 level content isn't the same as being ready for the track of algebra and beyond. The difference is whether it truly comes easy to the student, or are they working very hard and unintuitively in a way that isn't going to be sustainable over the next 5 years.

I had 2 kids who qualified for algebra in 6th. One of them zipped through everything easily. The other, despite having the same scores on ES/pre-algebra testing in 5th grade, struggled mightily and wisely held off algebra until 7th.

There are certain developmental milestones for levels of abstraction, that have biological component. They happen at different ages for different kids, but they do happen on their own timeline. When a kid is ready to learn, their brain unlocks and they can learn quickly. When they aren't, they can't even learn slowly. It's not just about prior preparation.

The way to test algebra readiness is to teach a slice of algebra, and see if the kid really understands it.


(Similar for learning reading in younger kids.)

[Anonymous]

I’ve taught middle and now high school algebra 2 for decades. The 8th graders in algebra 2 are not the ones who struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is the 6th grade Algebra class the same as the high school class Algebra 1 HN and will it be on their transcript? Or is this just elementary school algebra, and kids will still need to take Algebra 1 HN in 7th?

Somehow I doubt after this class many kids will opt to take Geometry HN in 7th.

Yes, same content/standards, same mandated county assessments, same pacing.

The only options after this will be to repeat algebra 1 honors in 7th grade or to take geometry honors. Regular geometry is not and will not be offered in middle school, so I suspect the vast majority will move on to honors geometry unless they expunge.

[Anonymous]

Yeah all the stereotypes and broad brush characterizations about others motivations are a bit much.

Just to share one family's experience, we had our older child do Beast Academy during the pandemic to supplement the gap in learning that was happening, then enrolled for a year at RSM because they generally enjoyed math. They didn't like RSM, so we tried AoPS the next year (because they liked BA), and it was better but they were still not really into it, so now there's been no math supplement at all the last couple years. In the meantime they play soccer and take music lessons and an art class as extras.

For 6th grade Algebra pilot this year, I did what one prior poster suggested and tried teaching them a couple Algebra concepts in early August as a trial run before agreeing to let them take the pilot. They absorbed the material quickly, and now they're doing just fine in the pilot with still no tutoring or supplementation needed. Kid is really into robotics and STEM, so don't know if a TJ application is in the future but seems possible given their interests, but nothing we're pushing towards, we'll provide the info and answer any questions, discuss pros/cons, etc. - but they'll decide.

Younger child we signed up for a year of RSM and has continued with it and is now taking and enjoying their competition class as well. Unlike the older kid they _really_ like it, but if that ever changes we'll just drop it. They are already farther ahead in math than where older sibling was at same age, so it's not supplementing to "get a leg up" or whatever - we just ask each year if they want to continue with it and so far they have said yes. Like their sibling they have a sport, art, and music extracurricular as well. Despite being farther ahead in math, their passion actually seems to be more in the art and language arts domain generally. That could evolve, but I'll be slightly more surprised if they pursue TJ application just based on current interests, despite being farther progressed on math. I do expect they'll be taking Algebra in 6th when they get there based on current math level (assuming the pilot program continues), but if for any reason they're not offered or it's not selected then taking it in 7th is perfectly fine too. We aren't supplementing with some specific goal or objective in mind other than letting our kid pursue the things they enjoy.

And FWIW, I drive a beat up 15 year old Lexus SUV, not a Tesla.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the stereotypes and broad brush characterizations about others motivations are a bit much.

Just to share one family's experience, we had our older child do Beast Academy during the pandemic to supplement the gap in learning that was happening, then enrolled for a year at RSM because they generally enjoyed math. They didn't like RSM, so we tried AoPS the next year (because they liked BA), and it was better but they were still not really into it, so now there's been no math supplement at all the last couple years. In the meantime they play soccer and take music lessons and an art class as extras.

For 6th grade Algebra pilot this year, I did what one prior poster suggested and tried teaching them a couple Algebra concepts in early August as a trial run before agreeing to let them take the pilot. They absorbed the material quickly, and now they're doing just fine in the pilot with still no tutoring or supplementation needed. Kid is really into robotics and STEM, so don't know if a TJ application is in the future but seems possible given their interests, but nothing we're pushing towards, we'll provide the info and answer any questions, discuss pros/cons, etc. - but they'll decide.

Younger child we signed up for a year of RSM and has continued with it and is now taking and enjoying their competition class as well. Unlike the older kid they _really_ like it, but if that ever changes we'll just drop it. They are already farther ahead in math than where older sibling was at same age, so it's not supplementing to "get a leg up" or whatever - we just ask each year if they want to continue with it and so far they have said yes. Like their sibling they have a sport, art, and music extracurricular as well. Despite being farther ahead in math, their passion actually seems to be more in the art and language arts domain generally. That could evolve, but I'll be slightly more surprised if they pursue TJ application just based on current interests, despite being farther progressed on math. I do expect they'll be taking Algebra in 6th when they get there based on current math level (assuming the pilot program continues), but if for any reason they're not offered or it's not selected then taking it in 7th is perfectly fine too. We aren't supplementing with some specific goal or objective in mind other than letting our kid pursue the things they enjoy.

And FWIW, I drive a beat up 15 year old Lexus SUV, not a Tesla.

No one cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yeah all the stereotypes and broad brush characterizations about others motivations are a bit much.

Just to share one family's experience, we had our older child do Beast Academy during the pandemic to supplement the gap in learning that was happening, then enrolled for a year at RSM because they generally enjoyed math. They didn't like RSM, so we tried AoPS the next year (because they liked BA), and it was better but they were still not really into it, so now there's been no math supplement at all the last couple years. In the meantime they play soccer and take music lessons and an art class as extras.

For 6th grade Algebra pilot this year, I did what one prior poster suggested and tried teaching them a couple Algebra concepts in early August as a trial run before agreeing to let them take the pilot. They absorbed the material quickly, and now they're doing just fine in the pilot with still no tutoring or supplementation needed. Kid is really into robotics and STEM, so don't know if a TJ application is in the future but seems possible given their interests, but nothing we're pushing towards, we'll provide the info and answer any questions, discuss pros/cons, etc. - but they'll decide.

Younger child we signed up for a year of RSM and has continued with it and is now taking and enjoying their competition class as well. Unlike the older kid they _really_ like it, but if that ever changes we'll just drop it. They are already farther ahead in math than where older sibling was at same age, so it's not supplementing to "get a leg up" or whatever - we just ask each year if they want to continue with it and so far they have said yes. Like their sibling they have a sport, art, and music extracurricular as well. Despite being farther ahead in math, their passion actually seems to be more in the art and language arts domain generally. That could evolve, but I'll be slightly more surprised if they pursue TJ application just based on current interests, despite being farther progressed on math. I do expect they'll be taking Algebra in 6th when they get there based on current math level (assuming the pilot program continues), but if for any reason they're not offered or it's not selected then taking it in 7th is perfectly fine too. We aren't supplementing with some specific goal or objective in mind other than letting our kid pursue the things they enjoy.

And FWIW, I drive a beat up 15 year old Lexus SUV, not a Tesla.

It’s interesting you feel you have to write several long winded paragraphs justifying your decision to some anonymous internet poster.