How the Ivy League Broke America

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I liked this article (even though I'm not a conservative like David Brooks). He makes several insightful points.

In addition, this paragraph should resonate with DCUM community:

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Family life changed as parents tried to produce the sort of children who could get into selective colleges. Over time, America developed two entirely different approaches to parenting. Working-class parents still practice what the sociologist Annette Lareau, in her book Unequal Childhoods, called “natural growth” parenting. They let kids be kids, allowing them to wander and explore. College-educated parents, in contrast, practice “concerted cultivation,” ferrying their kids from one supervised skill-building, résumé-enhancing activity to another. It turns out that if you put parents in a highly competitive status race, they will go completely bonkers trying to hone their kids into little avatars of success.

eh, kids at Ivies today were parented during covid. Get real, David Brooks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boy- those down-to-earth, average to low intelligence really stuck it to us. They stuck it to America and their own safety because they believed the snake oil salesman.

Now we have an anti-vaxxer for public health who will take us back to the 1800s. Remember Polio, Measles, Small Pox, a flu epidemic before vaccines?

We have a pedophile with less than 2 years of law experience for Attorney General.

We have a conspiracy theorist, friends with Putin and other dictators for our National Security.

We have a President using his private security to vet these people since they’d never pass an FBI background check. And using his office to exact revenge for selfish purposes.

I don’t think intelligence is what broke America. These people were full on Trump regardless. And, let’s see where that gets us.

+1. So scary and true.

I think inferiority complexes and fear are what broke America. This applies to both Trump-voters and Trump himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked this article (even though I'm not a conservative like David Brooks). He makes several insightful points.

In addition, this paragraph should resonate with DCUM community:

-------
Family life changed as parents tried to produce the sort of children who could get into selective colleges. Over time, America developed two entirely different approaches to parenting. Working-class parents still practice what the sociologist Annette Lareau, in her book Unequal Childhoods, called “natural growth” parenting. They let kids be kids, allowing them to wander and explore. College-educated parents, in contrast, practice “concerted cultivation,” ferrying their kids from one supervised skill-building, résumé-enhancing activity to another. It turns out that if you put parents in a highly competitive status race, they will go completely bonkers trying to hone their kids into little avatars of success.

eh, kids at Ivies today were parented during covid. Get real, David Brooks.

not true, they've been cultivated towards a competitive status race of activities and talents since kindergarten. some parents are still helping them behind the scenes post-college at their first jobs. it's wild. we've raised a generation of specialized robots who need a mom or dad "concierge" to help them get through all stages of life. they are cultivated to be productive crops, but not independent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article though it doesn’t support OP’s comment. My key takeaways (only from the article):

1. There continue to be many employers that still hire mainly only from the elite schools (admittedly, the example was a law firm which is strange since the article focuses on undergrads);

2. Studies show that the kids that are the “best” at school (evidence led by GPA/test scores) often aren’t the best at “life” measured by success in whatever career people choose…be it academia, business, etc. this is why Google apparently doesn’t ask for GPA when hiring because the kids with the highest GPA often dont become their best employees.

3. Wealth can effectively buy you into top schools through private schools, test prep, tutors, etc. so the colleges claiming to have gotten rid of the old Blue Blood system are still continuing it to some extent.

4. The MC and LMC resent that they are effectively shut out of these gate-keeping colleges which to them means they are relegated to crappy jobs

5. The demographic crisis will force hundreds of colleges to drastically change their MO so perhaps that will lead to a new group of “elite” schools attainable by the MC/LMC.

The Google thing is a lie spread by the former head of HR Google trying to generate cloud for his new company. Google cares a lot about GPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I found this interesting. I'm glad I chose to invest the money instead.
"According to the Yale Law professor Daniel Markovits, the author of The Meritocracy Trap, if the typical family in the top 1 percent of earners were to take that surplus—all the excess money they spend, beyond what a middle-class family spends, on their child’s education in the form of private-school tuition, extracurricular activities, SAT-prep courses, private tutors, and so forth—and simply invest it in the markets, it would be worth $10 million or more as a conventional inheritance."

Why would I want to give my kid $10M when I can help them turn it into $30M instead? What's the plan for the 30-50 years between graduating high school and passing an inheritance?
Why would I want to wait until as after I am dead before my children have a chance to succeed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked this article (even though I'm not a conservative like David Brooks). He makes several insightful points.

In addition, this paragraph should resonate with DCUM community:

-------
Family life changed as parents tried to produce the sort of children who could get into selective colleges. Over time, America developed two entirely different approaches to parenting. Working-class parents still practice what the sociologist Annette Lareau, in her book Unequal Childhoods, called “natural growth” parenting. They let kids be kids, allowing them to wander and explore. College-educated parents, in contrast, practice “concerted cultivation,” ferrying their kids from one supervised skill-building, résumé-enhancing activity to another. It turns out that if you put parents in a highly competitive status race, they will go completely bonkers trying to hone their kids into little avatars of success.

eh, kids at Ivies today were parented during covid. Get real, David Brooks.

not true, they've been cultivated towards a competitive status race of activities and talents since kindergarten. some parents are still helping them behind the scenes post-college at their first jobs. it's wild. we've raised a generation of specialized robots who need a mom or dad "concierge" to help them get through all stages of life. they are cultivated to be productive crops, but not independent.

Ummm. Nope. Try again. My kid is at Ivy unhooked and we were more concerned about getting more recess while the tiger moms fought over the limited GT spots. We didn’t cultivate anything- other than having books in the house, limiting screen time, no phone until 8th grade and getting outdoor exercise every day. Played sports (not recruited)- but for being part of a team. My kids failed at things. We let them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boy- those down-to-earth, average to low intelligence really stuck it to us. They stuck it to America and their own safety because they believed the snake oil salesman.

Now we have an anti-vaxxer for public health who will take us back to the 1800s. Remember Polio, Measles, Small Pox, a flu epidemic before vaccines?

We have a pedophile with less than 2 years of law experience for Attorney General.

We have a conspiracy theorist, friends with Putin and other dictators for our National Security.

We have a President using his private security to vet these people since they’d never pass an FBI background check. And using his office to exact revenge for selfish purposes.

I don’t think intelligence is what broke America. These people were full on Trump regardless. And, let’s see where that gets us.

+1. So scary and true.

I think inferiority complexes and fear are what broke America. This applies to both Trump-voters and Trump himself.

+100 scary list. Maybe we need to go back to when the uneducated masses had someone cast votes on their behalf. Clearly America is no longer capable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I liked this article (even though I'm not a conservative like David Brooks). He makes several insightful points.

In addition, this paragraph should resonate with DCUM community:

-------
Family life changed as parents tried to produce the sort of children who could get into selective colleges. Over time, America developed two entirely different approaches to parenting. Working-class parents still practice what the sociologist Annette Lareau, in her book Unequal Childhoods, called “natural growth” parenting. They let kids be kids, allowing them to wander and explore. College-educated parents, in contrast, practice “concerted cultivation,” ferrying their kids from one supervised skill-building, résumé-enhancing activity to another. It turns out that if you put parents in a highly competitive status race, they will go completely bonkers trying to hone their kids into little avatars of success.

eh, kids at Ivies today were parented during covid. Get real, David Brooks.

not true, they've been cultivated towards a competitive status race of activities and talents since kindergarten. some parents are still helping them behind the scenes post-college at their first jobs. it's wild. we've raised a generation of specialized robots who need a mom or dad "concierge" to help them get through all stages of life. they are cultivated to be productive crops, but not independent.

I mean, my kid is at Yale and he was in high school for covid. Went to Brooklyn public schools and then test-in public high school. played soccer (til covid) and got into school-based activities (and did well there, for sure). But 100% dealt with covid and living in an apartment with few breaks for two straight years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article though it doesn’t support OP’s comment. My key takeaways (only from the article):

1. There continue to be many employers that still hire mainly only from the elite schools (admittedly, the example was a law firm which is strange since the article focuses on undergrads);

2. Studies show that the kids that are the “best” at school (evidence led by GPA/test scores) often aren’t the best at “life” measured by success in whatever career people choose…be it academia, business, etc. this is why Google apparently doesn’t ask for GPA when hiring because the kids with the highest GPA often dont become their best employees.

3. Wealth can effectively buy you into top schools through private schools, test prep, tutors, etc. so the colleges claiming to have gotten rid of the old Blue Blood system are still continuing it to some extent.

4. The MC and LMC resent that they are effectively shut out of these gate-keeping colleges which to them means they are relegated to crappy jobs

5. The demographic crisis will force hundreds of colleges to drastically change their MO so perhaps that will lead to a new group of “elite” schools attainable by the MC/LMC.

The Google thing is a lie spread by the former head of HR Google trying to generate cloud for his new company. Google cares a lot about GPA.

Google also cares a LOT about what college you went to .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article though it doesn’t support OP’s comment. My key takeaways (only from the article):

1. There continue to be many employers that still hire mainly only from the elite schools (admittedly, the example was a law firm which is strange since the article focuses on undergrads);

2. Studies show that the kids that are the “best” at school (evidence led by GPA/test scores) often aren’t the best at “life” measured by success in whatever career people choose…be it academia, business, etc. this is why Google apparently doesn’t ask for GPA when hiring because the kids with the highest GPA often dont become their best employees.

3. Wealth can effectively buy you into top schools through private schools, test prep, tutors, etc. so the colleges claiming to have gotten rid of the old Blue Blood system are still continuing it to some extent.

4. The MC and LMC resent that they are effectively shut out of these gate-keeping colleges which to them means they are relegated to crappy jobs

5. The demographic crisis will force hundreds of colleges to drastically change their MO so perhaps that will lead to a new group of “elite” schools attainable by the MC/LMC.

The Google thing is a lie spread by the former head of HR Google trying to generate cloud for his new company. Google cares a lot about GPA.

Google also cares a LOT about what college you went to .

Yes. Yes they do. And it is the same 15-20 schools that are most coveted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article though it doesn’t support OP’s comment. My key takeaways (only from the article):

1. There continue to be many employers that still hire mainly only from the elite schools (admittedly, the example was a law firm which is strange since the article focuses on undergrads);

2. Studies show that the kids that are the “best” at school (evidence led by GPA/test scores) often aren’t the best at “life” measured by success in whatever career people choose…be it academia, business, etc. this is why Google apparently doesn’t ask for GPA when hiring because the kids with the highest GPA often dont become their best employees.

3. Wealth can effectively buy you into top schools through private schools, test prep, tutors, etc. so the colleges claiming to have gotten rid of the old Blue Blood system are still continuing it to some extent.

4. The MC and LMC resent that they are effectively shut out of these gate-keeping colleges which to them means they are relegated to crappy jobs

5. The demographic crisis will force hundreds of colleges to drastically change their MO so perhaps that will lead to a new group of “elite” schools attainable by the MC/LMC.

The Google thing is a lie spread by the former head of HR Google trying to generate cloud for his new company. Google cares a lot about GPA.

Google also cares a LOT about what college you went to .

Yes. Yes they do. And it is the same 15-20 schools that are most coveted

They did care back in the Marissa Mayer days, but they have much more college diversity now. Source: I work at Google and have for 15+ yrs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting article though it doesn’t support OP’s comment. My key takeaways (only from the article):

1. There continue to be many employers that still hire mainly only from the elite schools (admittedly, the example was a law firm which is strange since the article focuses on undergrads);

2. Studies show that the kids that are the “best” at school (evidence led by GPA/test scores) often aren’t the best at “life” measured by success in whatever career people choose…be it academia, business, etc. this is why Google apparently doesn’t ask for GPA when hiring because the kids with the highest GPA often dont become their best employees.

3. Wealth can effectively buy you into top schools through private schools, test prep, tutors, etc. so the colleges claiming to have gotten rid of the old Blue Blood system are still continuing it to some extent.

4. The MC and LMC resent that they are effectively shut out of these gate-keeping colleges which to them means they are relegated to crappy jobs

5. The demographic crisis will force hundreds of colleges to drastically change their MO so perhaps that will lead to a new group of “elite” schools attainable by the MC/LMC.

The Google thing is a lie spread by the former head of HR Google trying to generate cloud for his new company. Google cares a lot about GPA.

My kid’s roommate got a SWE internship with a 3.0…passed the coding challenges and interviews with flying colors and nobody once asked for his GPA (nor I gather was it asked in general info section?).

They asked for transcript after getting offer so kid was nervous somebody might flag the GPA…but just wanted to confirm kid took the classes that claimed to take.

So, that’s just an anecdote which isn’t proof of much.

[Anonymous]

Interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The critique is fine; the proposed solution is insipid. Brooks is pretty good when it comes to summarizing things that other people have been thinking and writing about for years. He isn’t much of an original thinker.

Yes. He’s proposing to rearrange the deck chairs. The fundamental problem is that the Ivies are too small for the social role they are trying to fill, and they refuse to grow. It doesn’t really matter how they fill their classes: their role as gatekeepers, and the ever-growing number of people locked out, will continue to fuel an ever-expanding populist backlash.

The populist backlash isn’t really about limited access to Ivies. The Ivy hatred is just one manifestation of the grievances of LC/LMC people (mostly but not exclusively White) display because they feel left behind. Their bigger beef is with globalization. You could get rid of tho Ivies tomorrow and some average Joe in Ohio would still be getting hooked on opiates and supporting Trump because the Chinese and Indians are working harder and outperforming them.

This.

+100

But, this would not get as many clicks or likes as this stupid article.

I heard Bill Clinton talk about the perils of globalization when he was out of office during the GWB administration. He totally had his finger on the pulse of where this was all going to lead - it's great for a lot of people, and really bad for many others in terms of how they feel sidelined and marginalized.

I'm not saying his own policies when President didn't contribute to the current situation, just that he articulated really well how this was going to play out. I don't think politicians like Obama or Harris could ever address this as objectively, because they are more interested in proving that they are part of the club. And of course Hillary herself had no problem crapping on the "deplorables."

Right now you've got a huge number of people convinced that Trump is going to look out after them, but the disappointment is going to be massive if and when they figure out he's looking out after himself, and the interests of other business oligarchs, not the little guy.

If they don’t already recognize that in 2024 they never will.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boy- those down-to-earth, average to low intelligence really stuck it to us. They stuck it to America and their own safety because they believed the snake oil salesman.

Now we have an anti-vaxxer for public health who will take us back to the 1800s. Remember Polio, Measles, Small Pox, a flu epidemic before vaccines?

We have a pedophile with less than 2 years of law experience for Attorney General.

We have a conspiracy theorist, friends with Putin and other dictators for our National Security.

We have a President using his private security to vet these people since they’d never pass an FBI background check. And using his office to exact revenge for selfish purposes.

I don’t think intelligence is what broke America. These people were full on Trump regardless. And, let’s see where that gets us.

+1. So scary and true.

I think inferiority complexes and fear are what broke America. This applies to both Trump-voters and Trump himself.

+1
All fueled by massive amounts of misinformation.