S/O MCPS HS "Honors" English 9/10 courses

[Anonymous]

My DD read House on Mango Street by Sandra Cisneros in 9th grade H Eng. This has a Lexile of 870, which falls in the Common Core standard for 4-5th grade. Yes, I think thematically it might be a good choice, but not as a good text to work on for an entire quarter.

1984 has a Lexile of 1090. 1050 is a beginning of the year expectation for 9th grade. 1080 is the beginning of the year expectation in 10th grade. My DD read it at Eastern middle school magnet in 6th or 7th grade I think. That gives an idea how far ahead many advanced learners are (far more are qualified for EMS than attend).

One cannot substitute thematic challenge for text/lexical challenge - kids need to read long texts with complex sentence structure and complex vocabulary if they are going to be successful in college and professionally.

The problem is that texts assigned for required English class have to be selected at a level that the vast majority of class can understand - given that 50% of 3rd graders in MCPS weren't reading on grade level in 2020 -it's not surprising that assigned texts in class are below grade level.

MCPS doesn't want to admit that they aren't successful at teaching reading - they don't know how to fix that problem, so they just dumb down the curriculum. It's a disservice to all learners - not just advanced learners.

[Anonymous]

Honors should be meaningful. Having graphic novels and particularly one at the 400 lexile is absolutely inappropriate for honors, and even for an on-grade level class. The dumbing down of the curriculum is not doing anyone any good. Why are they trying to write their own substandard curriculum? They should buy a high-quality one that is at a minimum on grade level and for honors section more challenging than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

honors just means on grade level

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

honors just means on grade level

Not in MCPS. The honors course is below grade level.

[Anonymous]

My son's private HS practiced gatekeeping but nobody cries racism there. If you aren't demonstrating mastery in a previous level course, it makes sense to not allow that student in a more difficult, faster paced course the following year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son's private HS practiced gatekeeping but nobody cries racism there. If you aren't demonstrating mastery in a previous level course, it makes sense to not allow that student in a more difficult, faster paced course the following year.

That assumes there are multiple levels to place students into. The problem with MCPS is that they have only one level of English classes in high school. And it's not even requiring on grade-level content.

[Anonymous]

It’s like people wanted equity, but then aren’t happy when they get it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s like people wanted equity, but then aren’t happy when they get it?

Equity is not giving everyone the same thing. Equity is givings peopl what they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s like people wanted equity, but then aren’t happy when they get it?

Equity is not giving everyone the same thing. Equity is givings peopl what they need.

+1 I also would beg the Central Office folks making these decisions to consider that the group hurt most by these types of policies are low-income high-potential students. As few as five years ago, those kids could find a refuge in "Honors" classes, and leverage their MCPS education as a pathway out of poverty. Now what do they have but class after class with the same clown that live next door and don't care about school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s like people wanted equity, but then aren’t happy when they get it?

Equity is not giving everyone the same thing. Equity is givings peopl what they need.

+1 I also would beg the Central Office folks making these decisions to consider that the group hurt most by these types of policies are low-income high-potential students. As few as five years ago, those kids could find a refuge in "Honors" classes, and leverage their MCPS education as a pathway out of poverty. Now what do they have but class after class with the same clown that live next door and don't care about school.

Agree that high-potential students with low incomes are hurt most. My kid does enrichment tutoring and courses to get his needs met. That's not something that low-income families can afford. Having high standards (or at least courses that meet grade-level standards) is especially important to them.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

You may enjoy both graphic novels and films, but these are not media that will develop the difficult human skills of reading comprehension, synthesis of written sources and writing. Those are the focus of English class, not just "telling a story." - English teacher

Interesting. So if I gave someone a graphic novel and the images didn’t convey the text it wouldn’t be confusing? When we read we never create images in our minds of what is happening? Editorial cartoons or Political cartoons don’t require comprehension of the image, text, and potentially understanding of the time/environment of which they are written? Comprehension and synthesis is absent?

There’s no possibility of comparing and contrasting the message and intent of a text with that of an image? Films aren’t visual interpretation of a text?

Yes, they are a visual interpretation of a text, but we have a crisis where kids do not and cannot read actual text. Those are the priority. A one day video in order to compare it to a scene in Shakespeare? Yes. Graphic novels where kids can discern the story through pictures like a 1st grader? Umm... no.

No one said that text shouldn’t be included in a class nor should students stop reading them. It was indicated that just because graphic novels are included in the curriculum that it doesn’t automatically disqualify the class from being Honors level. It’s what’s done with the medium that is important.

I AM the one saying that graphic novels have no place in high school English classes. - same English teacher above

And thats your opinion. Which you are entitled to possess. Us with more open minds who understand how different mediums (including graphic novels) can be beneficial to study and analysis just hope you aren’t an English teacher for our kids.

I'm not the English teacher above, but we are talking here about Honors English. Graphic novels can be great and fine and illuminating, but an Honors English class at the high school level should push kids to read at a higher level than they would for pleasure, and to evaluate more complex themes.

So, yes, hypothetically that could be achieved by reading a super dense graphic novel but we also know those aren't the books being chosen. The readings are *below* grade level, not even at grade level.

My issue is just that they read so little that each text is elevated to having more importance. So imagine if the anchor text was something like 1984, but then they also read Night and Maus and an excerpt from The Gulag archipelago and maybe the Akhmatova poem Requiem and something more recent like I Must Betray You. That is also totally do-able for a quarter for a honors English class.

I think I love you.... Akhmatova in HSAs English. My favorite poet, and can be tied in so well with history class.

It’s a pretty accessible poem if you have a decent translation and fits in well if the theme is totalitarian governments. Also fits the theme of diversifying a little by bringing in female authors, different countries etc. I think it would be super fun to come up with a themed curriculum for all four quarters — maybe totaliyarianism/distopia; poverty and geographical displacement (use Grapes of Wrath and maybe Refugee); community and belonging (use scarlet letter or the crucible and maybe the Invisible Man); and maybe something with coming of age (catcher in the rye I’d the classic but I feel like there’s probably better…) I really wish the curriculum did a better job weaving the “classics” together with more modern takes on the same theme, rather than just ditching the classics entirely.

[Anonymous]

I understand why they introduced graphic novels. Often this is the key to encouraging some reluctant students to read. I used it on my 8 yr old son and he went from not being a reader to being a prolific one (actual chapter books). Sometimes you need these tools around for older kids who have not been encouraged.

It doesn't mean the smart kids can't read Dostoyevsky in their spare time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I understand why they introduced graphic novels. Often this is the key to encouraging some reluctant students to read. I used it on my 8 yr old son and he went from not being a reader to being a prolific one (actual chapter books). Sometimes you need these tools around for older kids who have not been encouraged.

It doesn't mean the smart kids can't read Dostoyevsky in their spare time.

So they can include graphic novels in lit circles for reluctant readers. It is not an appropriate anchor text for an honors English class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand why they introduced graphic novels. Often this is the key to encouraging some reluctant students to read. I used it on my 8 yr old son and he went from not being a reader to being a prolific one (actual chapter books). Sometimes you need these tools around for older kids who have not been encouraged.

It doesn't mean the smart kids can't read Dostoyevsky in their spare time.

So they can include graphic novels in lit circles for reluctant readers. It is not an appropriate anchor text for an honors English class.

Why not? You can't just say "its not an appropriate anchor text" without giving some reasoning. Go ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I understand why they introduced graphic novels. Often this is the key to encouraging some reluctant students to read. I used it on my 8 yr old son and he went from not being a reader to being a prolific one (actual chapter books). Sometimes you need these tools around for older kids who have not been encouraged.

It doesn't mean the smart kids can't read Dostoyevsky in their spare time.

So they can include graphic novels in lit circles for reluctant readers. It is not an appropriate anchor text for an honors English class.

Why not? You can't just say "its not an appropriate anchor text" without giving some reasoning. Go ahead.

The reading level is 400HL for “The Magic Fish.” That is below a 2nd grade level: https://hub.lexile.com/lexile-grade-level-charts

Your turn. How is that appropriate as an anchor text for Honors English 9?