S/O MCPS HS "Honors" English 9/10 courses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Grouping kids by ability is not a problem. Tracking and gate keeping of courses is the problem. Students should be allowed to try a more challenging class if they feel up to the challenge and are willing to do the work.

If they can’t do the work in the previous level class, they shouldn’t be allowed in the next level up. Otherwise the next level up is dumbed down to accommodate those kids.

[Anonymous]

Do they expect students to read the texts at home online for homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For us Romeo and Juliet was a video. We had to buy the book ourselves. No book at all.

They didn’t have access to the book at school or as part of whatever English software?

I heard the same about Study Sync for MS but it actually does have lots of novels. Granted it’s not a paperback book but classes can read a full length text.

If schools aren’t providing the full text that’s where parents should start complaining and ask where funds are being spent instead.

Google reading print vs. on screens

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

You may enjoy both graphic novels and films, but these are not media that will develop the difficult human skills of reading comprehension, synthesis of written sources and writing. Those are the focus of English class, not just "telling a story." - English teacher

[Anonymous]

I just think they should read twice as many books as they do. Most of these books are super short and I know they are supposed to be just “anchor” texts but in reality the teachers are assigning one chapter per week to stretch the book out over the whole quarter. My kid was doing badly on the quizzes because he had read the book a month prior when it was assigned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

You have made my point. This is a book appropriate for middle school and for struggling readers.

It is not appropriate as the anchor text for an honors high school English class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Interesting, PP. My kid is in Connections and enrolled in English 9A. As far as I can tell it's the only non-Honors English 9A in the HS. They'll be reading All American Boys and Of Mice and Men in the next two Marking Periods, both of which are "Anchor Texts" in the new curriculum another PP circulated. Teacher mentioned considering transferring into Honors English 9A at the mid-year, suggesting there's "a lot of movement" around then even with ND kids. So I'm with you, PP -- what is going on in Honors that warrants the GPA bump?

I found this on the Churchill site. It's from 17-18 so a bit out of date but it does explain the difference between honors and grade level. The difference seems to be pacing and the amount of scaffolding required.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/departments/english/faqs20for209th20grade20english20on20level20and20honors2020171.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Interesting, PP. My kid is in Connections and enrolled in English 9A. As far as I can tell it's the only non-Honors English 9A in the HS. They'll be reading All American Boys and Of Mice and Men in the next two Marking Periods, both of which are "Anchor Texts" in the new curriculum another PP circulated. Teacher mentioned considering transferring into Honors English 9A at the mid-year, suggesting there's "a lot of movement" around then even with ND kids. So I'm with you, PP -- what is going on in Honors that warrants the GPA bump?

I found this on the Churchill site. It's from 17-18 so a bit out of date but it does explain the difference between honors and grade level. The difference seems to be pacing and the amount of scaffolding required.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/departments/english/faqs20for209th20grade20english20on20level20and20honors2020171.pdf

There is now no difference. Central office provides no requirements/guidance for what the honors class needs to have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

You may enjoy both graphic novels and films, but these are not media that will develop the difficult human skills of reading comprehension, synthesis of written sources and writing. Those are the focus of English class, not just "telling a story." - English teacher

Interesting. So if I gave someone a graphic novel and the images didn’t convey the text it wouldn’t be confusing? When we read we never create images in our minds of what is happening? Editorial cartoons or Political cartoons don’t require comprehension of the image, text, and potentially understanding of the time/environment of which they are written? Comprehension and synthesis is absent?

There’s no possibility of comparing and contrasting the message and intent of a text with that of an image? Films aren’t visual interpretation of a text?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Ugh, I'm sorry. There is no guidance as to how honors is different from regular. It's completely up to individual teachers. And given that people are saying that honors classes are including graphic novels, it doesn't sound like it's rigorous at many schools. Can you meet with the department head at your school to ask that he move up to honors?

Let’s not demonizes a book format that you clearly don’t understand. Just because a book is a graphic novel doesn’t mean it’s not worthy of inclusion in a honors class.

The graphic novel in question, the Magic Fish, has a Lexile level of 400HL. https://hub.lexile.com/find-a-book/book-details/9781984851598

HL is intended to be high-interest books for struggling readers. And yet MCPS is offering this to kids who were in CES and humanities magnets in 9th grade "honors" English, with no guidance to say that this should not be available in honors sections. Says all you need to know about MCPS.

Just because a book has HL attached to its Lexile, doesn’t mean it can or should only be read by struggling reading. It just means it will be appropriate for struggling readers. The content of the book can and likely is of interest and appeal to a particular audience which in this case is Middle School. And it can be used to illustrate both visually and in language a particular theme or idea that is being explored in the English class.

Should it be paired with other texts? yes. Should additional work be given? Yes. But again, it being a graphic novel doesn’t make it not worthy of the class. Further, the PP didn’t specify a particular graphic novel, they made a generalization that because a graphic novel was included in the curriculum it couldn’t be on grade level. That generalization is wrong as there are lots of graphic novels that cover an array of topics and themes that are perfectly in grade level. That generalization would be like saying because a story is delivered in film format it can’t possibly have as much value as a book.

You may enjoy both graphic novels and films, but these are not media that will develop the difficult human skills of reading comprehension, synthesis of written sources and writing. Those are the focus of English class, not just "telling a story." - English teacher

Interesting. So if I gave someone a graphic novel and the images didn’t convey the text it wouldn’t be confusing? When we read we never create images in our minds of what is happening? Editorial cartoons or Political cartoons don’t require comprehension of the image, text, and potentially understanding of the time/environment of which they are written? Comprehension and synthesis is absent?

There’s no possibility of comparing and contrasting the message and intent of a text with that of an image? Films aren’t visual interpretation of a text?

Yes, they are a visual interpretation of a text, but we have a crisis where kids do not and cannot read actual text. Those are the priority. A one day video in order to compare it to a scene in Shakespeare? Yes. Graphic novels where kids can discern the story through pictures like a 1st grader? Umm... no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Interesting, PP. My kid is in Connections and enrolled in English 9A. As far as I can tell it's the only non-Honors English 9A in the HS. They'll be reading All American Boys and Of Mice and Men in the next two Marking Periods, both of which are "Anchor Texts" in the new curriculum another PP circulated. Teacher mentioned considering transferring into Honors English 9A at the mid-year, suggesting there's "a lot of movement" around then even with ND kids. So I'm with you, PP -- what is going on in Honors that warrants the GPA bump?

I found this on the Churchill site. It's from 17-18 so a bit out of date but it does explain the difference between honors and grade level. The difference seems to be pacing and the amount of scaffolding required.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/departments/english/faqs20for209th20grade20english20on20level20and20honors2020171.pdf

Unfortunately, that's no longer applicable. Starting last year, all MCPS high schools offer only honors for 9th and 10th graders. The only differentiation is whether it is honors English 9 ESL or honors English 9 for kids who are not in ESL.

So, there is no differentiation anymore. There is also no tracking, so maybe your highly motivated 9th grader ends up with other highly motivated 9th graders. Or maybe they end up in a class full of kids who have never read a book and don't want to.

I have to note that this is wildly unpopular with teachers themselves. They don't want to teach a single class that tries to meet the needs of such a wildly disparate group of kids. It's not even popular with administration, who keeps apologizing to parents for what they are being forced to put up with.

This is a decision that came down from the central office, which was fought by the schools, and that Taylor could undo in a matter of weeks. It would be too late for this year's 9th and 10th graders, but the curriculum for a real honors English class exists and schools certainly have the ability to track kids into honors versus on level. All they need is the permission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If everyone's in honors, then no one's in honors.

Precisely. What is honors about it if everyone is in it? and I'm a parent who would very happy for my DD to be in non-honors since she has LD and but our school doesn't offer non-honors anything (except math).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Interesting, PP. My kid is in Connections and enrolled in English 9A. As far as I can tell it's the only non-Honors English 9A in the HS. They'll be reading All American Boys and Of Mice and Men in the next two Marking Periods, both of which are "Anchor Texts" in the new curriculum another PP circulated. Teacher mentioned considering transferring into Honors English 9A at the mid-year, suggesting there's "a lot of movement" around then even with ND kids. So I'm with you, PP -- what is going on in Honors that warrants the GPA bump?

I found this on the Churchill site. It's from 17-18 so a bit out of date but it does explain the difference between honors and grade level. The difference seems to be pacing and the amount of scaffolding required.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/departments/english/faqs20for209th20grade20english20on20level20and20honors2020171.pdf

Unfortunately, that's no longer applicable. Starting last year, all MCPS high schools offer only honors for 9th and 10th graders. The only differentiation is whether it is honors English 9 ESL or honors English 9 for kids who are not in ESL.

So, there is no differentiation anymore. There is also no tracking, so maybe your highly motivated 9th grader ends up with other highly motivated 9th graders. Or maybe they end up in a class full of kids who have never read a book and don't want to.

I have to note that this is wildly unpopular with teachers themselves. They don't want to teach a single class that tries to meet the needs of such a wildly disparate group of kids. It's not even popular with administration, who keeps apologizing to parents for what they are being forced to put up with.

This is a decision that came down from the central office, which was fought by the schools, and that Taylor could undo in a matter of weeks. It would be too late for this year's 9th and 10th graders, but the curriculum for a real honors English class exists and schools certainly have the ability to track kids into honors versus on level. All they need is the permission.

Looks like Northwood offers both on-level and honors for English 9, 10, and 11:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khF7F9cwOVyT7TkW-PQdg7KjL4PzF4cZ5lVPsEiTtCA/edit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In most schools it is only Honors English 9A. A few schools may still have the on-level course, but that's rare. And there are no standards for what constitutes the honors version of the course. A kid could take it and read mostly below-grade level texts.

I wish I could figure out 9A vs H9A. My kid is in Bridge and he is enrolled in 9A and I’ve been told no H9A. I want someone to explain the difference. What is going on in the H9A class that warrants the extra .5 gpa bump? More in depth text analysis, more writing, higher expectations?

My kid has already complained that English is silly and it’s very easy. For now, I’m looking at outside tutoring.

Interesting, PP. My kid is in Connections and enrolled in English 9A. As far as I can tell it's the only non-Honors English 9A in the HS. They'll be reading All American Boys and Of Mice and Men in the next two Marking Periods, both of which are "Anchor Texts" in the new curriculum another PP circulated. Teacher mentioned considering transferring into Honors English 9A at the mid-year, suggesting there's "a lot of movement" around then even with ND kids. So I'm with you, PP -- what is going on in Honors that warrants the GPA bump?

I found this on the Churchill site. It's from 17-18 so a bit out of date but it does explain the difference between honors and grade level. The difference seems to be pacing and the amount of scaffolding required.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/churchillhs/uploadedfiles/departments/english/faqs20for209th20grade20english20on20level20and20honors2020171.pdf

Unfortunately, that's no longer applicable. Starting last year, all MCPS high schools offer only honors for 9th and 10th graders. The only differentiation is whether it is honors English 9 ESL or honors English 9 for kids who are not in ESL.

So, there is no differentiation anymore. There is also no tracking, so maybe your highly motivated 9th grader ends up with other highly motivated 9th graders. Or maybe they end up in a class full of kids who have never read a book and don't want to.

I have to note that this is wildly unpopular with teachers themselves. They don't want to teach a single class that tries to meet the needs of such a wildly disparate group of kids. It's not even popular with administration, who keeps apologizing to parents for what they are being forced to put up with.

This is a decision that came down from the central office, which was fought by the schools, and that Taylor could undo in a matter of weeks. It would be too late for this year's 9th and 10th graders, but the curriculum for a real honors English class exists and schools certainly have the ability to track kids into honors versus on level. All they need is the permission.

Looks like Northwood offers both on-level and honors for English 9, 10, and 11:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1khF7F9cwOVyT7TkW-PQdg7KjL4PzF4cZ5lVPsEiTtCA/edit

Yes, schools still list on-level but they don't actually offer it. Try to find a NHS kid in on-level English.