I am a miserable teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, you make $95-100K, plus whatever your summer job gets you.

You don't seem to know a lot of government employees, or people with liberal arts degrees if you don't think that is good.

Don't get me wrong, I think teaching is a hard job, and the hours are long. But the pay is quite competitive to similar jobs/sectors.

+1

Also, government workers assigned, I marvel at how many people say that they know how much money their friends and family earn.

[Anonymous]

*Government workers aside

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

That WTU has been willfully breaking the law throughout the negotiation process.

[Anonymous]

DCUM doesn't have to agree with you that you're underpaid, OP. Start applying for other jobs. See how you feel about other positions. The grass is sometimes greener, at least in some ways. Go for it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCUM doesn't have to agree with you that you're underpaid, OP. Start applying for other jobs. See how you feel about other positions. The grass is sometimes greener, at least in some ways. Go for it.

+1. Definitely go.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

[Anonymous]

*MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

That WTU has been willfully breaking the law throughout the negotiation process.

Tell me more. I’ve heard nothing about this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

Are you kidding me? A large number of government employees and people at non-profits.

Also, don't compare a MEd to a MS in a STEM program.

Working a cushy non-profit job is not comparable to most teaching jobs.

That's going to depend on the non-profit.

But the discussion here isn't focused on the hours or workplace conditions. It has been focused on the claims made about pay. And teacher pay compares favorably to other liberal arts professions.

But you have to consider the working conditions. Teaching takes a major toll on people physically, emotionally, and mentally. You need to also consider the hours (nights and weekends), the stressful daily workload (no breaks), and the lack of resources (the long list of student supplies teachers pay for).

No, the pay isn’t enough.

A miserable teacher is still going to be miserable even if they make an extra $10-20k a year. The pay isn't the problem, so increasing pay isn't going to fix the problem.

+1 Based on the OP, the 10 month salary for a person with that education and experience is $111,000. That is well in line with the median (12 month) earnings for people with master's degrees in Montgomery County per the American Community Survey ( https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031 ), and that doesn't account for the pension benefits that OP has that most workers do not have (I truly don't care if you think the pension "sucks," that just makes you sound ignorant and entitled).

Knowing some outliers who make more than you do does not entitle you to higher pay.

In addition to the pension, teachers have excellent, Cadillac level health insurance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

Are you kidding me? A large number of government employees and people at non-profits.

Also, don't compare a MEd to a MS in a STEM program.

Working a cushy non-profit job is not comparable to most teaching jobs.

That's going to depend on the non-profit.

But the discussion here isn't focused on the hours or workplace conditions. It has been focused on the claims made about pay. And teacher pay compares favorably to other liberal arts professions.

But you have to consider the working conditions. Teaching takes a major toll on people physically, emotionally, and mentally. You need to also consider the hours (nights and weekends), the stressful daily workload (no breaks), and the lack of resources (the long list of student supplies teachers pay for).

No, the pay isn’t enough.

A miserable teacher is still going to be miserable even if they make an extra $10-20k a year. The pay isn't the problem, so increasing pay isn't going to fix the problem.

+1 Based on the OP, the 10 month salary for a person with that education and experience is $111,000. That is well in line with the median (12 month) earnings for people with master's degrees in Montgomery County per the American Community Survey ( https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031 ), and that doesn't account for the pension benefits that OP has that most workers do not have (I truly don't care if you think the pension "sucks," that just makes you sound ignorant and entitled).

Knowing some outliers who make more than you do does not entitle you to higher pay.

In addition to the pension, teachers have excellent, Cadillac level health insurance.

NP who is also pretty miserable teaching but know the benefits are too good to give up. I’ll literally always be teaching until my kids are through college. It’s hard for anyone to hate their job but feel stuck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

That WTU has been willfully breaking the law throughout the negotiation process.

Tell me more. I’ve heard nothing about this.

They've been breaking confidentiality laws and having ex-parte discussions with councilmembers over their demands.

It shouldn't be surprising that they have no respect for the law. This is the same union that waa organizing an illegal strike a few years ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

Are you kidding me? A large number of government employees and people at non-profits.

Also, don't compare a MEd to a MS in a STEM program.

Working a cushy non-profit job is not comparable to most teaching jobs.

That's going to depend on the non-profit.

But the discussion here isn't focused on the hours or workplace conditions. It has been focused on the claims made about pay. And teacher pay compares favorably to other liberal arts professions.

But you have to consider the working conditions. Teaching takes a major toll on people physically, emotionally, and mentally. You need to also consider the hours (nights and weekends), the stressful daily workload (no breaks), and the lack of resources (the long list of student supplies teachers pay for).

No, the pay isn’t enough.

A miserable teacher is still going to be miserable even if they make an extra $10-20k a year. The pay isn't the problem, so increasing pay isn't going to fix the problem.

+1 Based on the OP, the 10 month salary for a person with that education and experience is $111,000. That is well in line with the median (12 month) earnings for people with master's degrees in Montgomery County per the American Community Survey ( https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031 ), and that doesn't account for the pension benefits that OP has that most workers do not have (I truly don't care if you think the pension "sucks," that just makes you sound ignorant and entitled).

Knowing some outliers who make more than you do does not entitle you to higher pay.

In addition to the pension, teachers have excellent, Cadillac level health insurance.

NP who is also pretty miserable teaching but know the benefits are too good to give up. I’ll literally always be teaching until my kids are through college. It’s hard for anyone to hate their job but feel stuck.

So this is what doesn’t make sense. I don’t like 90% of my job but there are reasons that I’m not leaving it and so I do not “feel stuckz”. I feel grateful that I have a job that provides those things that I have voluntarily decided are worth staying for. You are not stuck. You have made a rational self-interested decision based upon your review of possible alternatives within the market economy. Good for you! You should feel good about that and appreciate that you have that option open to you, since it is apparently your best option available. You really need to adjust the way you are thinking about work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

That WTU has been willfully breaking the law throughout the negotiation process.

Tell me more. I’ve heard nothing about this.

They've been breaking confidentiality laws and having ex-parte discussions with councilmembers over their demands.

It shouldn't be surprising that they have no respect for the law. This is the same union that waa organizing an illegal strike a few years ago.

There’s no laws requiring confidentiality at the bargaining table and they should be keeping y council members up to date about the progress of negotiatiknn. That’s how democracy works. These aren’t “ex parte” communications because the council members are judges. I don’t think you understand how collective bargaining works.