Why are youth and high school sports so competitive to get into now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

I'm sorry, the bolded is utter b.s. I know many multi-sport athletes. I also know current students who play D1 who started their sport when their age was double digits. With passion, diligence, and natural talent a lot is possible.

I think that in general we agree about what it is. Except you seem to deny that many sports/coaches are like that. Which is pretty dense given you can go look up what competitive year-round soccer, basketball or swimming progarms literally are and what their schedules are.

"Many" sports or coaches being like that doesn't equate to NO multi-sport athletes, which is what was said. Just off the top of my head my DCs have friends who show horses and play club volleyball, swim while playing softball, play basketball and baseball, swim year round while playing soccer, swim while playing travel softball, do track and swim, etc. These kids ranged ES to HS, including kids who played HS varsity sports and local large publics.

Having multi-sport athletes isn't for my family, but people definitely find ways to make it work. I don't need to know the schedules for various area clubs to know what my friends' kids and kids' friends manage to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

I'm sorry, the bolded is utter b.s. I know many multi-sport athletes. I also know current students who play D1 who started their sport when their age was double digits. With passion, diligence, and natural talent a lot is possible.

I think that in general we agree about what it is. Except you seem to deny that many sports/coaches are like that. Which is pretty dense given you can go look up what competitive year-round soccer, basketball or swimming progarms literally are and what their schedules are.

"Many" sports or coaches being like that doesn't equate to NO multi-sport athletes, which is what was said. Just off the top of my head my DCs have friends who show horses and play club volleyball, swim while playing softball, play basketball and baseball, swim year round while playing soccer, swim while playing travel softball, do track and swim, etc. These kids ranged ES to HS, including kids who played HS varsity sports and local large publics.

Having multi-sport athletes isn't for my family, but people definitely find ways to make it work. I don't need to know the schedules for various area clubs to know what my friends' kids and kids' friends manage to do.

Show houses? They probably take trips to the Utah to do competitive skiing also. No problem just drop $20,000 on sports activities per year. Yeah, it's generally accessible. Anyone can do it. No biggie. What's the matter with you? Can't afford it.

[Anonymous]

But none will play in college

[Anonymous]

To further address multi-sport athletes: Some of you don’t seem to realize that there are different levels of travel teams. Not all travel teams demand that kids treat it like it’s their job; if that level of commitment is too much, then just go find a different organization or team. It’s not a requirement to specialize.

My kid plays travel baseball and travel basketball, but for both we deliberately sought out teams that were essentially “local” travel . I think between both we’ve had to get a hotel room three times in the past year. Never had to take a flight (and wouldn’t sign up for that in the first place).

He was asked to try out for the most elite team in his current basketball organization this year, but he declined because it requires at least four hours each way of travel to tournaments every single weekend during the season. That’s the type of schedule that is going to burn out far more kids than it’s going to develop.

[Anonymous]

It's seen as a more reliable route to college for some. If you're an excellent/recruited athlete, that will get you in assuming basic academic competency; sports admissions are meritocratic so it's a known rubric. Other admissions routes have become less certain and have greater unknowns given the increased emphasis on holistic admission.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's seen as a more reliable route to college for some. If you're an excellent/recruited athlete, that will get you in assuming basic academic competency; sports admissions are meritocratic so it's a known rubric. Other admissions routes have become less certain and have greater unknowns given the increased emphasis on holistic admission.

Reliable like "Varsity Blues" https://time.com/6100715/varsity-blues-trial-college-sports/

Coaches more than willing to get a little grease on their hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

No, not really. This was the 1950s. His school was huge. My aunt went to a Catholic HS that was 4000 kids - for free - not scholarship, it was free (think about that for a second). The argument that Hs schools are so bigger today than they were in the past is pure whining. Sure some are, but some aren't. It is what it is. If you can't compete then don't.

[Anonymous]

The point about multisport athletes is more applicable to the high school level. Yes, kids can play multiple sports on travel/club/rec teams. They will always take your money.

High school teams are a different beast.

At our local athletic powerhouse private high school (not DC) which produces around 30 college athletes per year, has sons of professional athletes enrolled, has produced multiple Gatorade national players of the year in their sport and top ten picks in recent drafts, the multisport athlete is extremely rare and, to the extent it happens, is a fall/spring combo. Very rarely will it include a winter sport.

Yes, athletes that can naturally make multiple varsity teams at extremely competitive schools continue to exist. But there are two filter mechanisms happening. First, the coaches want their players dedicated to one sport year round. Second, those kids are destined to play college sports and they aren’t going to risk injury in their secondary sport. And, so, you the observed phenomenon of the death of multisport athlete continues.

Two final things: These issues have been identified for nearly a decade and the death of the multisport athlete is well documented. Second, this has filtered to the NCAA level where multisport talented athletes are rarer than ever, and even if they exist, they drop one of their sports as underclassmen.

The notable exception is track where football players still routinely run for the track team in spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's seen as a more reliable route to college for some. If you're an excellent/recruited athlete, that will get you in assuming basic academic competency; sports admissions are meritocratic so it's a known rubric. Other admissions routes have become less certain and have greater unknowns given the increased emphasis on holistic admission.

Reliable like "Varsity Blues" https://time.com/6100715/varsity-blues-trial-college-sports/

Coaches more than willing to get a little grease on their hands.

funny but since then this does not happen. Every coach has to think every parent is wired to get out of some federal charge.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

No, not really. This was the 1950s. His school was huge. My aunt went to a Catholic HS that was 4000 kids - for free - not scholarship, it was free (think about that for a second). The argument that Hs schools are so bigger today than they were in the past is pure whining. Sure some are, but some aren't. It is what it is. If you can't compete then don't.

DP. This is just a mean-spirited response. I graduated in a class of 300. To make the varsity basketball team I essentially competed against 300 juniors and seniors for 13 spots. I was in the top 4% of that cohort. At today’s extreme, had I gone to a school that graduates over 1000, I would need to be in the top 1.3% of junior and seniors to make the team. You’re moving from people within normal distribution patterns making the team to only statistical outliers will be on the team. Yeah, people are going to take a look at that and want to understand what is happening. Not sure why you think that is whining or why you are so callous about it.

The data also doesn’t support you. In 1976, the largest HS enrollment classification in Texas started an enrollment of 1200. In 1990, the largest HS classification in Texas started at an enrollment of 1900. Today, it starts 2275 and 1900 would put you in the third highest enrollment division in Texas HS sports. I couldn’t easily find data for VHSL, and VA hasn’t had the population/building boom of Texas, but similar trends are probably in play there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s nice isn’t it?

Go back 20 years and the same 20 kids made/started on football, basketball, baseball. Same with girls. In the 80s a 1,000 kid high school would have 80 guys playing sports and 50 girls.

Now, there are more sports and almost all kids focus on one or two sports. It really has opened the doors to school sports to way more kids.

Except the high schools are now 3k so 100 girls may show up for volleyball tryouts

None of this is different now from then.
Different cities towns have different size schools.

Exactly. My dad always talks about trying out for freshman football when 200 other kids tried out. My grandfather wouldn't buy him cleats until he made the team. Think about that in today's society. He made the team and he got cleats. It is just people whining to whine.

Not really. In the late 90's the process had already started. I recall there were the kids that were in AAU that were the stars, then there were everyone else. Now everyone else has to be in AAU also. AAU is year round training. No stop. When I was growing up there were season. The coaches couldn't coach us in preseaon other than conditioning and providing a place to play pick up games. Literal rules.... NO COACHING. Many kids went from sport to sport.

Now private AAU coaches coach year round. No multi-sport athletes. Kids start training very young. Didn't make the swim team whe you were five so sorry Mr. Phelps (Michael only started when he was 7 ) in our area that would never happen.

No, not really. This was the 1950s. His school was huge. My aunt went to a Catholic HS that was 4000 kids - for free - not scholarship, it was free (think about that for a second). The argument that Hs schools are so bigger today than they were in the past is pure whining. Sure some are, but some aren't. It is what it is. If you can't compete then don't.

DP. This is just a mean-spirited response. I graduated in a class of 300. To make the varsity basketball team I essentially competed against 300 juniors and seniors for 13 spots. I was in the top 4% of that cohort. At today’s extreme, had I gone to a school that graduates over 1000, I would need to be in the top 1.3% of junior and seniors to make the team. You’re moving from people within normal distribution patterns making the team to only statistical outliers will be on the team. Yeah, people are going to take a look at that and want to understand what is happening. Not sure why you think that is whining or why you are so callous about it.

The data also doesn’t support you. In 1976, the largest HS enrollment classification in Texas started an enrollment of 1200. In 1990, the largest HS classification in Texas started at an enrollment of 1900. Today, it starts 2275 and 1900 would put you in the third highest enrollment division in Texas HS sports. I couldn’t easily find data for VHSL, and VA hasn’t had the population/building boom of Texas, but similar trends are probably in play there.

Why is that fool?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's seen as a more reliable route to college for some. If you're an excellent/recruited athlete, that will get you in assuming basic academic competency; sports admissions are meritocratic so it's a known rubric. Other admissions routes have become less certain and have greater unknowns given the increased emphasis on holistic admission.

Reliable like "Varsity Blues" https://time.com/6100715/varsity-blues-trial-college-sports/

Coaches more than willing to get a little grease on their hands.

funny but since then this does not happen. Every coach has to think every parent is wired to get out of some federal charge.

The conclusion was that for many sports it doesn't really matter, because kids not belonging to elite classes don't have access to water polo or rowing anyway. EG The corruption isn't happening in the college coaching ranks, where they were stung so blatantly and embarrassingly. It is happening amongst the lower-level coaches that are providing the certifications and setting up social hierarchies. "Want a reliable route to college, pay a coach."

[Anonymous]

It’s because the sports have all been professionalized. Just read an article about a hockey club with 400 travel players, but the county had only 2 high schools so maybe 40 total varsity spots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The point about multisport athletes is more applicable to the high school level. Yes, kids can play multiple sports on travel/club/rec teams. They will always take your money.

High school teams are a different beast.

At our local athletic powerhouse private high school (not DC) which produces around 30 college athletes per year, has sons of professional athletes enrolled, has produced multiple Gatorade national players of the year in their sport and top ten picks in recent drafts, the multisport athlete is extremely rare and, to the extent it happens, is a fall/spring combo. Very rarely will it include a winter sport.

Yes, athletes that can naturally make multiple varsity teams at extremely competitive schools continue to exist. But there are two filter mechanisms happening. First, the coaches want their players dedicated to one sport year round. Second, those kids are destined to play college sports and they aren’t going to risk injury in their secondary sport. And, so, you the observed phenomenon of the death of multisport athlete continues.

Two final things: These issues have been identified for nearly a decade and the death of the multisport athlete is well documented. Second, this has filtered to the NCAA level where multisport talented athletes are rarer than ever, and even if they exist, they drop one of their sports as underclassmen.

The notable exception is track where football players still routinely run for the track team in spring.

Every coach who has any real knowledge of athletic development and performance of kids (including high school age kids) will tell you that it is BETTER to play multiple sports (although not during the same season) and they ENCOURAGE multi-sport athletes through high school.

[Anonymous]

[/size]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The point about multisport athletes is more applicable to the high school level. Yes, kids can play multiple sports on travel/club/rec teams. They will always take your money.

High school teams are a different beast.

At our local athletic powerhouse private high school (not DC) which produces around 30 college athletes per year, has sons of professional athletes enrolled, has produced multiple Gatorade national players of the year in their sport and top ten picks in recent drafts, the multisport athlete is extremely rare and, to the extent it happens, is a fall/spring combo. Very rarely will it include a winter sport.

Yes, athletes that can naturally make multiple varsity teams at extremely competitive schools continue to exist. But there are two filter mechanisms happening. First, the coaches want their players dedicated to one sport year round. Second, those kids are destined to play college sports and they aren’t going to risk injury in their secondary sport. And, so, you the observed phenomenon of the death of multisport athlete continues.

Two final things: These issues have been identified for nearly a decade and the death of the multisport athlete is well documented. Second, this has filtered to the NCAA level where multisport talented athletes are rarer than ever, and even if they exist, they drop one of their sports as underclassmen.

The notable exception is track where football players still routinely run for the track team in spring.

Every coach who has any real knowledge of athletic development and performance of kids (including high school age kids) will tell you that it is BETTER to play multiple sports (although not during the same season) and they ENCOURAGE multi-sport athletes through high school.

Coaches know this. They pay lip service to it but they don’t accommodate it. And the peripherals prevent it from happening.

You’re a football player playing baseball? Well, you just missed spring practice. And in summer you’ll have to choose between the summer showcase baseball tournaments and 7on7 because they conflict.

Oh, you want to play basketball? Well, you’ll miss up to the first month of the season if football makes a deep playoff run and you just missed winter ball with the baseball team. Good luck catching up. And then you have to choose between summer baseball and basketball. And on and on.

I don’t know what world you’re living in, but this problem has been identified for over a decade. Hell, it has become harder and harder to find multi sport athletes that Jim Harbaugh was intentionally trying to find them as a differentiator in recruiting to Michigan. If the multisport athlete still existed in robust numbers, it would be a meaningless filter for college coaches. But the opposite is true.

You used to reliably have football/basketball stars pop up in the NCAA, but the last one was of note was Jimmy Graham in 2010 and he was not as impactful on the hardwood as prior dual sport stars. There hasn’t been a Tony Gonzales/Julius Peppers in NCAA Basketball in nearly 20 years.