Explain why you can't smother your 1 and 2 year old

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OK, here's an absurd argument-why do certain fanatical pro-lifers think it's OK to shoot and kill abortion doctors?

I could only assume that they feel by taking that one life they are saving the lives of many.

That may be true, but it also evidences a belief on their part that murder IS justified in certain instances, while at the same time proclaiming that they are against abortion because it is murder. While I realize that pro-lifers who shoot doctors are very few and far between, this type of thinking seems somewhat hypocritical. But it has always been hard for me to fathom why some people feel they need to impose their religious beliefs on others. I understand their opinons and how heartfelt they are, but the need to control strangers is what escapes me. What is interesting is that a lot of these same fanatics are people who oppose a mosque near Ground Zero and who laud a past president who led young people into war against countries whose governments they feel are oppressive in terms of human rights. I just find this such a strange dichotomy.

[Anonymous]

OP are you really this dense? You can't smother your children because you will be caught, tried, convicted and spend the rest of your miserable life in prison. Murder is against the law in every state. I know you just want to start a Pro-Choice/Pro-life fight. Not giving you the opportunity. Use your damn brain and stop asking silly and stupid question.

[Anonymous]

Read Roe v Wade. First trimester abortion is legal in this country, OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are pro-lifers who do fertility treatment and then give their unused embryos to infertile couples.

Where does this actually happen? How many people do you know had someone else's embryo implanted in them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to oversimplify but this is America and I don't want someone I've never met to have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body. There are plenty of wonderful countries some of the PPs can relocate to if they wish to have such decisions made by others.

No problem. We'll keep it simple. You have a choice...whether or not to have sex. Don't have sex until you are ready to handle the responsibility that comes with it, i.e, the possibility that you could produce a new life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of us who have had a miscarriage of a fetus at 6 or 8 or 10 weeks gestation really have a gut sense that this "cluster of cells" just isn't a "person" and yet we would very much agree that a fetus at 39 weeks gestation (or 28 weeks -- capable of possibly living on its own once born) is a "person". But there's a huge difference between the cluster of cells at 5 weeks or 8 weeks gestation, and a fully developed fetus at 37 or 38 weeks.

Some of us who have had a miscarriage at 6 or 8 or 10 weeks cried our eyes out, because we recognized that we had lost our baby, not a meaningless "bunch of cells".

[aprilmayjune]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I really can't understand why people say it's "so obvious" that a fetus is meaningfully different from a 1 year old, since, as someone said, life is a continuum. If it's life, it's life, We give different categories of human life different legal rights and responsibilities, as someone said, but there is only only category that we say has no rights whatever due to no act of its own.

Thanks again for sharing your views.

OP, a lot of people who are pro-choice nevertheless do see a difference between the morality of aborting an embry, or a fetus before 13 weeks gestation, verses a second or epseiclly third trimester abortion.

Some of us who have had a miscarriage of a fetus at 6 or 8 or 10 weeks gestation really have a gut sense that this "cluster of cells" just isn't a "person" and yet we would very much agree that a fetus at 39 weeks gestation (or 28 weeks -- capable of possibly living on its own once born) is a "person". But there's a huge difference between the cluster of cells at 5 weeks or 8 weeks gestation, and a fully developed fetus at 37 or 38 weeks.

It's obvious to me that an embryo is different from a 1 year old, in terms of rights which we should give it, which is in my opinion, to sya, no rights. But a 38 week old fetus should not be aborted... and I think most laws do not allow it to be (I could be wrong).

I have had a miscarriage.. and I gotta say, I never ever felt that what I was carrying inside of me was any different than a person. In fact, when they told me at my ultrasound that there was no heartbeat, it devestated me that I had a nonliving human being inside of me. To me, and to a lot of other people, there was no difference, we fell in love with the HUMAN we were carrying inside of us from the moment the second line showed up on the pregnancy test.

[Anonymous]

The love that a pregnant woman has for yer baby-to-be is a wonderful thing, and is probably responsible for the continued existence of the human species. And the love that a mother has for her child is still a wonderful thing years later even if everyone else can see that the child is a no-good thug.

A wonderful thing that proves nothing about the target of that love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to oversimplify but this is America and I don't want someone I've never met to have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body. There are plenty of wonderful countries some of the PPs can relocate to if they wish to have such decisions made by others.

No problem. We'll keep it simple. You have a choice...whether or not to have sex. Don't have sex until you are ready to handle the responsibility that comes with it, i.e, the possibility that you could produce a new life.

Unfortunately, no one seems to follow through on that when it comes to their own daughters. I have seen too many pro-life Catholics who, when faced with a pregnant fifteen year old, take them to the clinic because they don't want her to screw up her life. She of course promised to not have sex until marriage, but that just translated into sex without contraception. And the irony is that the parents end up doing penance by devoting themselves even more to the pro-life cause. It's crazy.

So when I see a poster who says what you said, I say to myself that you probably had sex long before you were ready to be a mother. You just got lucky, and now that you are safely past those years, you are telling people to do what you did not.

If you want to write back and say you first had sex at 25 with your future husband, by all means do so. But I bet it's not true.

[Anonymous]

Anybody read Freakonomics? The book notes statistics can be used to determine if games and wrestling matches have been thrown, and whether teachers helped students cheat on standardized tests.

The book also notes that crime decreased dramatically in the early 1990s due to the legalization of abortion. Babies are not born to mothers who do not want them and neglect them, resulting in umpteen million males not committing a crime and being incarcerated. Interesting read.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some of us who have had a miscarriage of a fetus at 6 or 8 or 10 weeks gestation really have a gut sense that this "cluster of cells" just isn't a "person" and yet we would very much agree that a fetus at 39 weeks gestation (or 28 weeks -- capable of possibly living on its own once born) is a "person". But there's a huge difference between the cluster of cells at 5 weeks or 8 weeks gestation, and a fully developed fetus at 37 or 38 weeks.

Some of us who have had a miscarriage at 6 or 8 or 10 weeks cried our eyes out, because we recognized that we had lost our baby, not a meaningless "bunch of cells".

at 8 weeks, the fetus is the size of a bean.

[Anonymous]

I am pro-choice, mom of 2, expecting 3rd. If you believe life begins at conception, there is no moral difference between abortion and smothering a living child. If, on the other hand, you have more nuanced beliefs about when "life" begins, it's a different story. A fetus is a developing creature that will potentially become a human child, but it is not a human child. Once viable, my thoughts run more toward "human child", but before that point, they are just not the same. I am not a cheering fan of abortion, I have never had an abortion, I don't know if personally I would choose to have one myself because I have never been in that position. But I do know several women who have, for various reasons, had abortions, and none has made the decision lightly. And I see none of them as having done the equivalent of smothering a child.

As for the comparison between carrying a fetus and caring for an elderly relative - you aren't forced to care for the relative. You may feel compelled to do so, but no one is physically requiring you to provide that physical or emotional support. Being pregnant, even with a wanted pregnancy, is extremely difficult both physically and emotionally. Because I don't see a non-viable fetus as a separate and distrinct human, I do prioritize the rights and needs of the woman who is carrying the fetus. Once the baby is born, different story - we're all on equal ground in terms of rights, and a mother's rights cannot trump those of a child.

[aprilmayjune]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to oversimplify but this is America and I don't want someone I've never met to have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body. There are plenty of wonderful countries some of the PPs can relocate to if they wish to have such decisions made by others.

No problem. We'll keep it simple. You have a choice...whether or not to have sex. Don't have sex until you are ready to handle the responsibility that comes with it, i.e, the possibility that you could produce a new life.

Unfortunately, no one seems to follow through on that when it comes to their own daughters. I have seen too many pro-life Catholics who, when faced with a pregnant fifteen year old, take them to the clinic because they don't want her to screw up her life. She of course promised to not have sex until marriage, but that just translated into sex without contraception. And the irony is that the parents end up doing penance by devoting themselves even more to the pro-life cause. It's crazy.

So when I see a poster who says what you said, I say to myself that you probably had sex long before you were ready to be a mother. You just got lucky, and now that you are safely past those years, you are telling people to do what you did not.

If you want to write back and say you first had sex at 25 with your future husband, by all means do so. But I bet it's not true.

I am not the OP, and I wasn't 25, but I was 18, and it was with the man I knew that I was going to marry.. We used birth control but had also talked numerous times about what we would do and how we would change our lives should it have happened that way. I'm just saying that there ARE people with similar circumstances to what you mentioned. That being said, I have always been pro life, and we were indeed already married for a couple of years before we actually had our child, but I can confidently say that had it ever come up, I would never have aborted a pregnancy. Adoption is a beautiful solution to an unexpected pregnancy. Why does everyone seem to have forgotten about that?? Yes, you have to put up with pregnancy for 9 months, however, is that really that large a price to pay in order to be a HUGE blessing for another couple who may not be able to to create this gift for themselves.

[Anonymous]

aprilmayjune wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I hate to oversimplify but this is America and I don't want someone I've never met to have the right to tell me what I can and cannot do with my own body. There are plenty of wonderful countries some of the PPs can relocate to if they wish to have such decisions made by others.

No problem. We'll keep it simple. You have a choice...whether or not to have sex. Don't have sex until you are ready to handle the responsibility that comes with it, i.e, the possibility that you could produce a new life.

Unfortunately, no one seems to follow through on that when it comes to their own daughters. I have seen too many pro-life Catholics who, when faced with a pregnant fifteen year old, take them to the clinic because they don't want her to screw up her life. She of course promised to not have sex until marriage, but that just translated into sex without contraception. And the irony is that the parents end up doing penance by devoting themselves even more to the pro-life cause. It's crazy.

So when I see a poster who says what you said, I say to myself that you probably had sex long before you were ready to be a mother. You just got lucky, and now that you are safely past those years, you are telling people to do what you did not.

If you want to write back and say you first had sex at 25 with your future husband, by all means do so. But I bet it's not true.

I am not the OP, and I wasn't 25, but I was 18, and it was with the man I knew that I was going to marry.. We used birth control but had also talked numerous times about what we would do and how we would change our lives should it have happened that way. I'm just saying that there ARE people with similar circumstances to what you mentioned. That being said, I have always been pro life, and we were indeed already married for a couple of years before we actually had our child, but I can confidently say that had it ever come up, I would never have aborted a pregnancy. Adoption is a beautiful solution to an unexpected pregnancy. Why does everyone seem to have forgotten about that?? Yes, you have to put up with pregnancy for 9 months, however, is that really that large a price to pay in order to be a HUGE blessing for another couple who may not be able to to create this gift for themselves.[/quote]\

Fertile women are not brood mares for non fertile women. It is that simple.

[Anonymous]

April May June-I understand how you feel and respect your opinion. So give me the same respect and realize that my situation might be different than yours. For whatever reason that might be none of your business, carrying a pregnancy to term and giving it up for adoption is not an option for me as it is for you. You are entitled to your opinion and your opinion has value. However, it does not have value over all differing opions and you are not entitled to make decisions for strangers based on your opinion. That is what America is all about. CHOICE.