If more women are going for sperm donor kids, will men similarly turn to surrogates?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. (Straight) Men who are the type to actually put in the work and be hands-on parents are going to be able to find someone to have kids with. The difference is the men who want kids and a wife but don’t want to have to pull a second shift may not be able to find someone but they also won’t be willing to spend the money and time to parent solo.

They will still be able to find women to have babies with because they will lie about their interest and their willingness to do the work, as they have always done.

Well women lie about their interest and willingness to have sex after marriage, as they have always done, so this is fair enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. (Straight) Men who are the type to actually put in the work and be hands-on parents are going to be able to find someone to have kids with. The difference is the men who want kids and a wife but don’t want to have to pull a second shift may not be able to find someone but they also won’t be willing to spend the money and time to parent solo.

They will still be able to find women to have babies with because they will lie about their interest and their willingness to do the work, as they have always done.

Well women lie about their interest and willingness to have sex after marriage, as they have always done, so this is fair enough.

Do you think this may be connected to the fact that after marriage and baby they realize that their husbands have lied to them about the extent to which they expect their wife to do their (i.e. the husband's labor)?

My husband was "Mr. I support you we are equal partners" until I was delivered Baby #1. Then it was too much for him. That totally killed my interest in sex with him - who wants to have sex with an incompetent man-baby? His lack of support to me and our kid, his treatment of me as an unequal partner, and his expectation that I would provide free labor to him killed our sex life and marriage. We separated when it became clear to me that he had no intention to learn to parent.

I broke up with him after a year of refusing to sleep with him because it was clear he would never become an equal partner and I actually like sex and had my own financial safety net. Because I knew I had enough money to raise my child safely (even if modestly), I could decide that I didn't want to live in a sexless marriage (with a man baby who constantly pawed at me for sex without pulling his weight which made the whole situation feel very rapey and non-consensual like it was expected that I would continue to have sex with him no matter what.)

The sad thing is that his kid recognizes how lame he is - he now tries to foist his labor off on to her. She is not going to leave him as a father, but even as a young child, telling him what kind of groceries he had to buy for her, telling him he had to provide an appropriate sleeping space for her, etc., totally killed her desire to live at his house. She lived full time with me, and he never took any custody.

Yet, he considers himself a great dad and shows up to every ceremony that celebrates her accomplishment so he can bask in the reflected light as a good parent. She is his prop, as was I.

If you want a good sex life after marriage, don't treat a wife like a house slave or nanny.

[Anonymous]

Do you think this may be connected to the fact that after marriage and baby they realize that their husbands have lied to them about the extent to which they expect their wife to do their (i.e. the husband's labor)?

No because married women lose interest in sex no matter how much work you do on the house and kids. You can be super-dad, it just doesn’t matter. Plenty of examples of sexless marriages among childless couples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. (Straight) Men who are the type to actually put in the work and be hands-on parents are going to be able to find someone to have kids with. The difference is the men who want kids and a wife but don’t want to have to pull a second shift may not be able to find someone but they also won’t be willing to spend the money and time to parent solo.

They will still be able to find women to have babies with because they will lie about their interest and their willingness to do the work, as they have always done.

Well women lie about their interest and willingness to have sex after marriage, as they have always done, so this is fair enough.

dp.. I didn't lie about it. My body just decided it was too tired and stressed out to have sex.

Once the kids got older, and my stress level was reduced, we had a lot more sex.

I don't think men understand how stress and birth control pills kill a woman's libido.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. (Straight) Men who are the type to actually put in the work and be hands-on parents are going to be able to find someone to have kids with. The difference is the men who want kids and a wife but don’t want to have to pull a second shift may not be able to find someone but they also won’t be willing to spend the money and time to parent solo.

They will still be able to find women to have babies with because they will lie about their interest and their willingness to do the work, as they have always done.

Well women lie about their interest and willingness to have sex after marriage, as they have always done, so this is fair enough.

np Do they lie or are they simply exhausted being expected to work full time, care for the children and the man/boy husband.

Sorry men, you don't get any reward if all you do is go to work, mow the lawn and change the oil

GET.WITH.THE.TIMES

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think this may be connected to the fact that after marriage and baby they realize that their husbands have lied to them about the extent to which they expect their wife to do their (i.e. the husband's labor)?

No because married women lose interest in sex no matter how much work you do on the house and kids. You can be super-dad, it just doesn’t matter. Plenty of examples of sexless marriages among childless couples.

You forgot about being a SUPER husband. You know telling your wife how much you love and appreciate her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just read the journals.

https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/662964?journalCode=signs#:~:text=Challenges%20to%20gendered%20eugenics%20also,of%20human%20value%20and%20worth

Paywall. And the abstract only says “This article compares the social and physical traits of 1,515 sperm and egg donors to national averages for males and females to illustrate the ways in which donor selection and marketing practices perpetuate stratified norms of gender, race, and class.” without explaining *how* their assessment of these traits leads to the conclusion, never mind what the traits are.

I’m also not familiar with Signs; what is it’s peer review/editorial process?

If it's published by U of Chicago Press you can be sure that it follows all COPE guidelines and its processes are on par with those of journals at all major publishers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. (Straight) Men who are the type to actually put in the work and be hands-on parents are going to be able to find someone to have kids with. The difference is the men who want kids and a wife but don’t want to have to pull a second shift may not be able to find someone but they also won’t be willing to spend the money and time to parent solo.

They will still be able to find women to have babies with because they will lie about their interest and their willingness to do the work, as they have always done.

Well women lie about their interest and willingness to have sex after marriage, as they have always done, so this is fair enough.

Do you think this may be connected to the fact that after marriage and baby they realize that their husbands have lied to them about the extent to which they expect their wife to do their (i.e. the husband's labor)?

My husband was "Mr. I support you we are equal partners" until I was delivered Baby #1. Then it was too much for him. That totally killed my interest in sex with him - who wants to have sex with an incompetent man-baby? His lack of support to me and our kid, his treatment of me as an unequal partner, and his expectation that I would provide free labor to him killed our sex life and marriage. We separated when it became clear to me that he had no intention to learn to parent.

I broke up with him after a year of refusing to sleep with him because it was clear he would never become an equal partner and I actually like sex and had my own financial safety net. Because I knew I had enough money to raise my child safely (even if modestly), I could decide that I didn't want to live in a sexless marriage (with a man baby who constantly pawed at me for sex without pulling his weight which made the whole situation feel very rapey and non-consensual like it was expected that I would continue to have sex with him no matter what.)

The sad thing is that his kid recognizes how lame he is - he now tries to foist his labor off on to her. She is not going to leave him as a father, but even as a young child, telling him what kind of groceries he had to buy for her, telling him he had to provide an appropriate sleeping space for her, etc., totally killed her desire to live at his house. She lived full time with me, and he never took any custody.

Yet, he considers himself a great dad and shows up to every ceremony that celebrates her accomplishment so he can bask in the reflected light as a good parent. She is his prop, as was I.

If you want a good sex life after marriage, don't treat a wife like a house slave or nanny.

Your toxicity oozes through this whole post, but this vignette reflects worse on you than it does your “lame” exH tbh.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think this may be connected to the fact that after marriage and baby they realize that their husbands have lied to them about the extent to which they expect their wife to do their (i.e. the husband's labor)?

No because married women lose interest in sex no matter how much work you do on the house and kids. You can be super-dad, it just doesn’t matter. Plenty of examples of sexless marriages among childless couples.

dp.. so, how do you explain sexless marriages where men are the ones who don't want sex?

Why do some men not want sex after being married a while? Let me guess.. when men don't want sex then it's because of stress or low T, but if women don't want sex it's because they lied, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never met a hetero man who wanted a baby at all. Some wanted the IDEA of kids and a perfect wife. But it was more of a concept than the actual desire to have kids. If they didn’t have a wife pulling the overnight shift, changing diapers, and washing dishes, they’d have no interest in kids.

So no, I don’t think we’ll see a booming surrogate industry.

While it is more rare, it is not completely non-existent. I am a guy and I babysat when I was a teen. I was a popular babysitter, because I could take kids out in the yard and play with them, and wear them out and then they'd settle down easier after dinner. We had family friends who divorced and the mother had to go back to work. I was one of two sitters who would sit with the toddler when I got home from school. So, I had experience with kids of all ages. I also helped tend to my nieces when they were born. I love kids and I was good with kids. I wanted kids more than my wife did. I also knew more about child care than she did. She had never babysat and she only had one nephew who she did not see much until he was a grade schooler, so she knew very little about babies and toddlers.

We did use a surrogate for children. My wife is a transplant patient and her immunosuppression would not allow her to carry, so we used a surrogate to have our children. However, had I not met my wife, I knew I wanted children and would have been a single parent by choice if I had gotten to a certain age and had not had children. Yes, it is expensive, but much like I saved for a house in my 20s, I would have spent my 30s saving to have this opportunity. I come from a family and culture where children are prized and expected and I imagined myself a father for most of my life. I would have sacrificed a lot to have children, even if I had to do it alone. I realize that this attitude is very rare, but I would have found a way. I cannot imagine myself being childless. I would have probably had to do donor egg and surrogacy because many adoption agencies will not allow single men to adopt children.

There already is a fairly extensive surrogacy industry. There are a number of adoption agencies and adoption lawyers that provide support for surrogacy. We used a law firm that specialists in surrogacy. They helped us find the surrogate that we used and helped us draft our legal agreements between the parties. We also have a relative who is another adoption lawyer in another state and she does the same type of work. She is a member of American Academy of Assisted Reproductive Technology Attorneys (AAARTA)http://m.aaarta.org/aaarta/home?mobile=1 which is a network of Adoption Attorneys that provide such support. There are such attorneys in every state who know the laws of each state and can help navigate the legal system to ensure that the best outcomes for both surrogates and families.

[Anonymous]

^ yes, it is rare. That's the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I think men are paid a paltry sum for their DNA at sperm clinics. That is atrocious.

It makes no sense. Their DNA is devalued because of the rapid mechanism that expels it? The bias that devalues male dna?

Everything is upside down in this industry. It’s also not fair to men either to have 50 half siblings as off spring.

1990s sperm donor here. It was a lot of money to me at the time - much more than I was making as a postdoc - and for something I was going to do anyway, lmao.

You guys are fascinating. I guess I should not be angry on your behalf. Maybe bc I’m a “boy mom.” I’m like Hey… (I told my sons not to donate). They are teens. LOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I think men are paid a paltry sum for their DNA at sperm clinics. That is atrocious.

It makes no sense. Their DNA is devalued because of the rapid mechanism that expels it? The bias that devalues male dna?

Everything is upside down in this industry. It’s also not fair to men either to have 50 half siblings as off spring.

1990s sperm donor here. It was a lot of money to me at the time - much more than I was making as a postdoc - and for something I was going to do anyway, lmao.

Good job being a post doc. We need smart humans. Maybe i should congratulate your altruism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, I think men are paid a paltry sum for their DNA at sperm clinics. That is atrocious.

It makes no sense. Their DNA is devalued because of the rapid mechanism that expels it? The bias that devalues male dna?

Everything is upside down in this industry. It’s also not fair to men either to have 50 half siblings as off spring.

1990s sperm donor here. It was a lot of money to me at the time - much more than I was making as a postdoc - and for something I was going to do anyway, lmao.

You guys are fascinating. I guess I should not be angry on your behalf. Maybe bc I’m a “boy mom.” I’m like Hey… (I told my sons not to donate). They are teens. LOL.

I think it's weird that guys would do this. Do they not think about how they have biological children in this world? These are your children. Are they never curious about how they turned out?

I don't think I could ever be with a guy who did this.

[Anonymous]

I don’t think they tell you! I also think it’s the myth of the med student donor… do you think these medical students would do that ? Are they narcissists ? Egotists?

post doc man: are you in the scientific field ?