MOCO - County Wide Upzoning, Everywhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is even the value proposition of Moco anymore, traffic is terrible, schools aren’t what they were, crime is getting worse, the housing in the ideal areas gets closer to equivalent areas in DC all the time. Moco basically has the inconveniences of the suburbs and the city all in one place, fantastic.

The only value proposition for well off people is closer access to private schools. Otherwise they are all fleeing to McLean, Great Falls and Langley.

The same dumb voters are going to f that up

[Anonymous]

There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People move to SFH neighborhoods specifically to have space. They are going to ruin the entire county until it is paved concrete jungle like Tokyo and we all get to live in sh!tty 400 sqft apts.

But hey, at least the crappy chipotle down the street is walkable. I can’t wait until this stupendously backfires and everyone with means (by and large part home owners) flees because all of the upzoning imports tons of poverty and trashy people into the county. Gee, you mean it sucks when your neighborhood street has 30000 cars parked all over because each triplex houses 20 people all with their own cars?

R.I.P. MoCo. Howard and AA Counties looking more attractive by the day.

Did you know that most Dupont circle SFH are now multi unit condos? They converted old victorian homes with many bedrooms into subdivided smaller condos. Is Dupont circle a trashy place? Also, why shouldn’t poor people live near wealthy people? Why should the government allow wealthy people to isolate themselves through government policy? Why not let the market decide?

Do you remember when those conversions started in the 70s and into the 80s? How Dupont Circle became a dump? How the "nice" properties there were only those that were embassy- and NGO-operated? How it took a decade afterwards of gentrification to bring it back towards a desirable place to be? How that, in sequence, permeated through Adams Morgan and beyond?

Some of those places have re-established themselves as desirable and enjoyable locations. Of course, all those that are are no longer "attainable," and those who lived there from the transition towards cut-up housing through gentrification spent 15-20 years (or more) with the negative consequences. Worked out for developers and landlords, though...

Seriously, find us a comparable situation where things got better for those then living in the areas affected by such zoning change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does this impact cities like Rockville that have their own govt?

It doesn’t impact any place that has its own planning authority. That includes Rockville, Gaithersburg, and Takoma Park. The Village of Chevy Chase doesn’t have their own zoning authority but do have their own permitting authority so they are unlikely to be affected as well.

How convenient. It should impact every single property contiguous to anyone who proposes and votes for this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Only people raising children get to live in houses. Everyone else get in your apartment or condo. There, I solved your housing crisis.

And now many affordable housing units are taken by an undocumented immigrants? That’s the 100000 lbs elephant in the room. This county rolls out the carpet for illegal immigration. Gee, who’d have ever guessed that if you are a sanctuary county that you have to now put a whole bunch of imported poverty somewhere to live? Undocumented immigrants take a huge amount of affordable housing stock, then people complain that housing is unaffordable. The brilliant solution isn’t to clamp down on illegal residency and rentals to undocumented migrants to free up supply of affordable housing, their plan is to ruin all of your neighborhoods to build even more junk housing. Our own citizens are being forced to upend our entire way of life because illegal immigration strains almost every aspect of the county from schools to affordable housing stock. How about no?

Truth. Also, the impact on schools as well has been incredible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

Volume of what? kids in already crowded schools? jobs paid in cash? I do not think this is a 0 sum game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

How so? More volume of poverty and social needs who take more in tax expenditures then they can possibly pay in tax is a net negative. MoCo is going the way of Baltimore where they mane it extremely difficult to do business and drive out everyone with means who actually make up the bulk of the tax base. The area will crumble when all of the taxpayers who can pay taxes leave. You cannot make up tax revenues from a $250k household by bringing in 5 $50k households to replace. The $50k households will barely pay tax and require all sorts of subsidies, vouchers for lunches and will likely pay $0 in income taxes after all of the write offs and deductions. The county will get more poor with more volume, because the volume is going to come from poverty and low income households.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

How so? More volume of poverty and social needs who take more in tax expenditures then they can possibly pay in tax is a net negative. MoCo is going the way of Baltimore where they mane it extremely difficult to do business and drive out everyone with means who actually make up the bulk of the tax base. The area will crumble when all of the taxpayers who can pay taxes leave. You cannot make up tax revenues from a $250k household by bringing in 5 $50k households to replace. The $50k households will barely pay tax and require all sorts of subsidies, vouchers for lunches and will likely pay $0 in income taxes after all of the write offs and deductions. The county will get more poor with more volume, because the volume is going to come from poverty and low income households.

The family moving into a duplex or triplex is not living in poverty. Those homes will still cost around 500K minimum. They will pay taxes, or the landlord will pay taxes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

How so? More volume of poverty and social needs who take more in tax expenditures then they can possibly pay in tax is a net negative. MoCo is going the way of Baltimore where they mane it extremely difficult to do business and drive out everyone with means who actually make up the bulk of the tax base. The area will crumble when all of the taxpayers who can pay taxes leave. You cannot make up tax revenues from a $250k household by bringing in 5 $50k households to replace. The $50k households will barely pay tax and require all sorts of subsidies, vouchers for lunches and will likely pay $0 in income taxes after all of the write offs and deductions. The county will get more poor with more volume, because the volume is going to come from poverty and low income households.

The family moving into a duplex or triplex is not living in poverty. Those homes will still cost around 500K minimum. They will pay taxes, or the landlord will pay taxes.

No, they’ll be rentals. Property tax doesn’t cover the same as income taxes. A single multiplex property tax will not make up for 4 below poverty line families who will all get stuffed into there and who’ll pay $0 income taxes because of their low inc9me and who’ll need more in tax expenditures than they pay.


You also think all of these multiplexes are going to be high quality. lol. We all know they’ll be cheap garbage flips or the units will have properties that are barely taken care of. It will just bring low income to good neighborhoods and ruin everything. I cannot wait until this stupendously backfires on the county and they panic as their budgets get blown up after there is mass exodus of high tax paying citizens.

[Anonymous]

I think we maybe need to get some facts straight.

This proposal would allow up to four residences to be built on a lot where just one residence is allowed. This would mean that an individual or a developer could purchase a SFH lot when it becomes available and build what amounts to a small set of townhomes. This ASSUMES that all existing setback and other lot coverage rules are maintained.

It is ALREADY allowed to have accessory dwelling units on a SFH property, either detached or attached. So already you can have multiple families on a lot.

These individual buildings will be relatively expensive. We are not talking about large apartment blocks with rent-capped units...but townhomes. Taxes will be paid.

The valid issues to be addressed are parking and school capacity. Everything else is catastrophizing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

LOL. That’s probably exactly what they think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

How so? More volume of poverty and social needs who take more in tax expenditures then they can possibly pay in tax is a net negative. MoCo is going the way of Baltimore where they mane it extremely difficult to do business and drive out everyone with means who actually make up the bulk of the tax base. The area will crumble when all of the taxpayers who can pay taxes leave. You cannot make up tax revenues from a $250k household by bringing in 5 $50k households to replace. The $50k households will barely pay tax and require all sorts of subsidies, vouchers for lunches and will likely pay $0 in income taxes after all of the write offs and deductions. The county will get more poor with more volume, because the volume is going to come from poverty and low income households.

The family moving into a duplex or triplex is not living in poverty. Those homes will still cost around 500K minimum. They will pay taxes, or the landlord will pay taxes.

No, they’ll be rentals. Property tax doesn’t cover the same as income taxes. A single multiplex property tax will not make up for 4 below poverty line families who will all get stuffed into there and who’ll pay $0 income taxes because of their low inc9me and who’ll need more in tax expenditures than they pay.


You also think all of these multiplexes are going to be high quality. lol. We all know they’ll be cheap garbage flips or the units will have properties that are barely taken care of. It will just bring low income to good neighborhoods and ruin everything. I cannot wait until this stupendously backfires on the county and they panic as their budgets get blown up after there is mass exodus of high tax paying citizens.

Why in the world do you think these people would be below the poverty line and not paying income taxes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is zero chance that MoCo will not lose its taxpaying and upper income citizens because of this change. What is even stupid is that MoCo has plenty of underutilized commercial land that can be converted to housing of multiple types. Much of that land will never be office or retail.

I think that they are ok with that. What they lose in quality they plan to make up for in volume.

How so? More volume of poverty and social needs who take more in tax expenditures then they can possibly pay in tax is a net negative. MoCo is going the way of Baltimore where they mane it extremely difficult to do business and drive out everyone with means who actually make up the bulk of the tax base. The area will crumble when all of the taxpayers who can pay taxes leave. You cannot make up tax revenues from a $250k household by bringing in 5 $50k households to replace. The $50k households will barely pay tax and require all sorts of subsidies, vouchers for lunches and will likely pay $0 in income taxes after all of the write offs and deductions. The county will get more poor with more volume, because the volume is going to come from poverty and low income households.

The family moving into a duplex or triplex is not living in poverty. Those homes will still cost around 500K minimum. They will pay taxes, or the landlord will pay taxes.

That is incorrect. Most of these small multifamily units are not going to provide homeownership opportunities. Investors will be buying up single family houses to replace them with multifamily rental properties. It will reduce the number of ownership opportunities and make homeownership less attainable for MOCO residents. The risk adjusted return for selling individual units of small multifamily buildings is usually not favorable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we maybe need to get some facts straight.

This proposal would allow up to four residences to be built on a lot where just one residence is allowed. This would mean that an individual or a developer could purchase a SFH lot when it becomes available and build what amounts to a small set of townhomes. This ASSUMES that all existing setback and other lot coverage rules are maintained.

It is ALREADY allowed to have accessory dwelling units on a SFH property, either detached or attached. So already you can have multiple families on a lot.

These individual buildings will be relatively expensive. We are not talking about large apartment blocks with rent-capped units...but townhomes. Taxes will be paid.

The valid issues to be addressed are parking and school capacity. Everything else is catastrophizing.

There is a lot here that is false or intentionally misleading. Which is typical for you folks.