"Clubs are competitive"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like if you want finance/banking/PE/VC or consulting and are at a T20, you get jobs by:

1. Athletic connections - if a recruit
2. Competitive business clubs in undergrad
3. Family connections

This is the path for anyone at any school that wants those opportunities. The difference at say a Wharton is that there are tons of boutique investment banks, small P/E funds, etc. started by Wharton alums that only hire Wharton kids (and the kids of important clients). They pay well, but aren't considered the plum Goldman Sachs or Blackstone or Citadel companies, so there are opportunities for lots of kids outside these clubs.

Harvard and Yale and other top schools have equivalent-type firms.

It's actually harder coming from say UMD if you don't have any of the above.

Interesting.
So if my kid is the kid of an important client, should he go through the normal T25 school channels or through connections?

[Anonymous]

I have heard these types of stories at several schools that my DD and her friends attend (including but not limited to Northwestern, Michigan, Northeastern, Harvard, U Chicago, University of Illinois-CI). Her friends that do not seem to have these experiences (i.e., the clubs are more inclusive) are the ones at SLACs, including top tier ones (Swarthmore, Haverford, Bates). Note, I'm not talking about club sports or "business" fraternities, but regular old student-run clubs (think newspapers/magazines, affinity groups).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most top colleges have consulting and business clubs. DD had to do a presentation to get in and was super lucky she made it. Impossible to pad the resume when these clubs are so competitive.

I’d be interested in hearing from others that hire, but I honestly don’t care about clubs. Something interesting may be a topic of conversation in an interview but I’m not making decisions based on clubs.

Then you are definitely not hiring for desperately-sought-after consulting positions.

I’m not. I work in Fintech. Cutting edge, a ton of responsibility, and a ton of work for comparatively low pay but equity that could possibly make you rich (or could be worth nothing).

[Anonymous]

Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

Gosh. But why? The school has so many resources.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

Gosh. But why? The school has so many resources.

It's the kids themselves creating all these restrictions, not the university. Insecure students wanting to reassure themselves that they are *still* the top, even after they've been accepted at a dream school, would be my guess. It's just sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone have insight on business fraternities? Any hazing issues?

This completely depends on the chapter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

My public school/unhooked kid who showed up at Yale has not found this to be true. There are literally hundreds of clubs. Yes, some of them are competitive but see a comment I made earlier in this thread - These are student run organisations and they simply don’t have the ability of students to manage clubs with hundreds of students. It’s so easy to start clubs there, it happens all the time. My kid did not get into several clubs/teams for things that she was really successful at in high school (debate/MUN) and of course that was a little bit tough but she got into groups for lots of other things that have been great sources of learning and growing. Seriously, if they go into it with an open mind and cast their nets wide it works out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

They will always have big numbers for the same reason people cling to know things that have diminished quality. There are many very high stats kids that self select from them and don't even bother applying for a multitude of reasons. Not sure why people find it difficult to understand why a kid would have know interest in an Ivy, but this board is proof that many can't comprehend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yale clubs are a sh*t-show of competitiveness, for all clubs, not just acapella/finance/club sports. Just another way for the kids to make everything as miserable as possible for themselves. The Ivies today sound just terrible.

They will always have big numbers for the same reason people cling to know things that have diminished quality. There are many very high stats kids that self select from them and don't even bother applying for a multitude of reasons. Not sure why people find it difficult to understand why a kid would have know interest in an Ivy, but this board is proof that many can't comprehend it.

*no

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a whole article about this in the Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/09/yale-college-undergrad-clubs-competitive/675219/)....what was upsetting was the exclusiveness of clubs that had no reason to be exclusive.

I have found this to be true at my DC's school and her friends at other schools say similar things. In an age where kids have a hard enough time connecting with one another, I found it quite disheartening.

My DD graduated from Yale the year before this article was published and she cried when she read it. She tried to join many activities- some which she had excelled at in HS, and others which represented new interests. She was shut out of everything after multiple years' of attempts. The gatekeeping was insane. At one point she attempted intramural sports, which is totally casual competition representing each dorm, not even close to the level of club sports. She was rejected by the captains of multiple teams because "they had enough experienced players and women already." She played for a strong varsity softball program in HS and was recruited for D3, but she only managed to get a chance to join intramural softball games 2-3 times and only for headcount because another woman was sick.

She ended up working out at the gym a lot, writing for a minor publication at school and focusing most of her time on school, friends, and her on-campus job. In her experience, there were a few kids picking up multiple activities and everyone else was scrambling for scraps. It was disheartening.

The one thing about the article that she criticized was that the woman in the story (I haven't re-read it) who shared her perspective was talking about how hard it was to join an activity when she was actually accepted into one of the most selective ones (the Carillonneurs). That gave my DD a good laugh because if someone is complaining about selection to a very elite group, they have no idea how hard it is for the more average student.

This is so sad. I wish more people told these stories. Where is she now?

She's working in NYC (not a dream job but she is squeaking by on her own without help from us) and is a volunteer coach for a youth sports team. She didn't have the recruiting opportunities she had hoped for but it sounds like she is saving up to hopefully start post-bac courses this summer and thinking about applying to MBA programs in a couple of years.

It's been hard because she's had friends from college who were varsity athletes or in those competitive clubs who had really great job opportunities through those groups. She is dating a former athlete who graduated the same year who was basically given his job by an older teammate and alumni. He is a great guy and I don't think she begrudges him that opportunity, but I know she envies the ease with which he's accessed a lot of things.

I feel sorry for your DD. She probably would've been happier and better set up for success at a less competitive, more nurturing school like a laid-back state school or a SLAC .

I wouldn't pity her, but yes, she does regret not taking the offer from Williams. At the time, it was hard to say no to the prestige offered by Yale and the opportunities she perceived she would have. In reality, the opportunities are most open to those who would probably have similar opportunities anywhere. She also came from a very large high school (3000 students) and had trouble imagining herself in a smaller environment.

I think the lesson that she's taken away from the experience and that we took away as a family is that most kids will do fine literally anywhere, but it takes courage to choose "anywhere" over a very competitive, highly ranked school. I'm sure she will take that lesson into her graduate school planning. And we definitely were naive about the background of her fellow students. It was humbling to realize how many of her fellow students were truly brilliant or incredibly privileged. But you don't know what you don't know.

Williams is majority athlete. There is nothing to say that the opportunities available to Yale grads because of athletics wouldn't apply to Williams grads now. If anything, those connections seem to be stronger at SLACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like if you want finance/banking/PE/VC or consulting and are at a T20, you get jobs by:

1. Athletic connections - if a recruit
2. Competitive business clubs in undergrad
3. Family connections

Then perhaps my DD is an outlier but she is a sophomore with an internship at a hedge fund this summer and offers for two internships next summer at highly sought after consulting firms and she doesn’t satisfy any of the three above qualifiers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In recent posts about UF and Georgetown, posters have lamented that getting into clubs is competitive. I've seen that about other schools, as well. When we've gone on tours, every school has talked about their variety of clubs and made them sound like they were open to anyone who wanted to join. "I signed up for 50 clubs!" "If there isn't a club for what you want, you can start one." Can someone provide some insight into these "competitive" clubs? No one is talking about this on tours.

Freshman at large public
Tried out and made club sports team;
Applied and not accepted to major related social/educational club.

Will your child apply to the club next year? Maybe it is harder to get accepted to the clubs as a freshman?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like if you want finance/banking/PE/VC or consulting and are at a T20, you get jobs by:

1. Athletic connections - if a recruit
2. Competitive business clubs in undergrad
3. Family connections

Then perhaps my DD is an outlier but she is a sophomore with an internship at a hedge fund this summer and offers for two internships next summer at highly sought after consulting firms and she doesn’t satisfy any of the three above qualifiers.

Which college?
And how did she get her internships/2 offers? On campus interviews?

[Anonymous]

I’ll selfishly ask for any experiences at UVA?