Benefits of taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

Please do your own research. This is an easy research topic. Better yet, ask a high school junior and they'll be able to tell you. College admissions is a comparison game, and those who have advanced math beyond BC calculus have the advantage over those who don't (provided you have decent grades in those advanced courses). It's really quite simple. If you don't believe it, then don't worry about it. But don't obfuscate the reality of college admissions.

Then it should be very easy to point to an admission website, interview that clearly states that math past Calculus BC gives a leg up in admissions. Link if you have it, but I bet you don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

Eh not really. It’s the law of diminishing returns when it comes to post Calc BC math classes. It’ll most likely come down to other factors such as extracurricular and essays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

I don’t know why they call these classes dual enrollment since there no dual enrollment involved, they are just specialized electives that loosely follow college level curriculum.

Even in the case of TJ, I’m not sure students entering at a lower grade math will be penalized for not accelerating if they get most rigorous coursework check.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

This. Especially if the acceleration comes at the expense of gpa, which matters more than how far ahead in math the student got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

Eh not really. It’s the law of diminishing returns when it comes to post Calc BC math classes. It’ll most likely come down to other factors such as extracurricular and essays.

There are so many things that come before who took differential equations, that it’s not going to matter much. Parents are so invested in the path their kids take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

Wow. Either you're determined to create strawmen, or you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old. I said that math level could stand out negatively in the context of one's school. You twisted that into me being "hyper focused on math only" and viewing it as "THE determining factor for engineering admission." There's no point in even speaking to you, since you're either a crazy person or arguing in bad faith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

Wow. Either you're determined to create strawmen, or you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old. I said that math level could stand out negatively in the context of one's school. You twisted that into me being "hyper focused on math only" and viewing it as "THE determining factor for engineering admission." There's no point in even speaking to you, since you're either a crazy person or arguing in bad faith.

DP, I don’t think what you are saying is true beyond taking Calculus BC.

A kind entering at Geometry in 9th won’t be penalized for his middle school offering only Algebra 1.

The other route for acceleration is taking math electives. I don’t see how linear algebra is a better elective than another stem course. Students have different interests and strengths, it’s not like math is the preferred subject for admissions.

The PP argued that there are many advanced math students from TJ that took Multivariable and other DE courses and still get rejected from stem programs at VA and VT, while students with less advanced math coursework get in. Thats supports the argument that math level past Calculus BC is not a determining factor for admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

Wow. Either you're determined to create strawmen, or you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old. I said that math level could stand out negatively in the context of one's school. You twisted that into me being "hyper focused on math only" and viewing it as "THE determining factor for engineering admission." There's no point in even speaking to you, since you're either a crazy person or arguing in bad faith.

DP, I don’t think what you are saying is true beyond taking Calculus BC.

A kind entering at Geometry in 9th won’t be penalized for his middle school offering only Algebra 1.

The other route for acceleration is taking math electives. I don’t see how linear algebra is a better elective than another stem course. Students have different interests and strengths, it’s not like math is the preferred subject for admissions.

The PP argued that there are many advanced math students from TJ that took Multivariable and other DE courses and still get rejected from stem programs at VA and VT, while students with less advanced math coursework get in. Thats supports the argument that math level past Calculus BC is not a determining factor for admissions.

DP... it supports the argument that math level beyond BC is not *THE* determining factor for admissions. It does not necessarily support the argument that math level beyond BC is not *A* determining factor for admissions.

I agree with the PP that top programs looking at kids applying from TJ, when looking at two similar-rated kids that one being a year or two farther ahead in Math could be one among many differentiators they consider. Just like they look at whether the "most rigorous courseload" was followed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

Wow. Either you're determined to create strawmen, or you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old. I said that math level could stand out negatively in the context of one's school. You twisted that into me being "hyper focused on math only" and viewing it as "THE determining factor for engineering admission." There's no point in even speaking to you, since you're either a crazy person or arguing in bad faith.

DP, I don’t think what you are saying is true beyond taking Calculus BC.

A kind entering at Geometry in 9th won’t be penalized for his middle school offering only Algebra 1.

The other route for acceleration is taking math electives. I don’t see how linear algebra is a better elective than another stem course. Students have different interests and strengths, it’s not like math is the preferred subject for admissions.

The PP argued that there are many advanced math students from TJ that took Multivariable and other DE courses and still get rejected from stem programs at VA and VT, while students with less advanced math coursework get in. Thats supports the argument that math level past Calculus BC is not a determining factor for admissions.

DP... it supports the argument that math level beyond BC is not *THE* determining factor for admissions. It does not necessarily support the argument that math level beyond BC is not *A* determining factor for admissions.

I agree with the PP that top programs looking at kids applying from TJ, when looking at two similar-rated kids that one being a year or two farther ahead in Math could be one among many differentiators they consider. Just like they look at whether the "most rigorous courseload" was followed.

Post Calculus BC math being a factor is just wild speculation at this point, particularly when top colleges like MIT only mention Calculus. If you’re making the claim it is a factor, you should put forward some evidence for it.

The other issue I have with it is looking at Math sequence alone and not physics, or other science that fits the intended major.

If the most rigorous box is checked, taking more math is not going to make a difference and I can think of many other different things that for sure count because colleges say so.

Extracurriculars, volunteering, sports, jobs, essays, letters of recommendation, resume, application, matter far more, it will never be down to two students having the same profile and the one “further ahead in math” wins. If anyone is accelerating in math hoping to get a leg up in admissions is completely misguided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

Please do your own research. This is an easy research topic. Better yet, ask a high school junior and they'll be able to tell you. College admissions is a comparison game, and those who have advanced math beyond BC calculus have the advantage over those who don't (provided you have decent grades in those advanced courses). It's really quite simple. If you don't believe it, then don't worry about it. But don't obfuscate the reality of college admissions.

Then it should be very easy to point to an admission website, interview that clearly states that math past Calculus BC gives a leg up in admissions. Link if you have it, but I bet you don’t.

PP doesn't have such data because it absolutely is NOT true. There is no advantage in college admissions to taking math beyond calculus. There is a huge disadvantage to taking unnecessarily difficult classes too young and getting a poor foundation (especially if forced to take self-study summer classes) and possibly poor grades too.

You've been warned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many parents are largely unaware of the realities of competitive math sequencing for admission to Top 25 schools. Counselors (both private and public high schools) consistently note that this practice is common nationwide, not just within our local community. Students are enrolling in community college courses to accelerate their math track, often advancing well beyond BC Calculus. Those dismissing this trend as exaggerated are simply uninformed—or their child may have gained admission to an Ivy+ school on other strengths. Across districts such as HoCo, FFX, ARL, LAUSD, NYC, and many others, a significant number of students are already completing second-year (or higher) college-level math by the time they graduate high school.

Taking advanced math past Calculus BC will not help with college admissions. If the student is interested, sure, they should do it, but for admissions pursuing meaningful extracurriculars is more beneficial.

Look up MIT advice on what high school classes to take, they only mention calculus, nothing beyond.

I’d be very curious to know if anyone has evidence that DE math helps in some way.

There is no shortage of information online about what students nationwide are doing to strengthen their college applications. To dismiss the importance of math sequencing in admissions is, frankly, misguided. Both UVA and Virginia Tech admissions offices have publicly stated that they consider whether applicants have advanced beyond calculus, noting that many successful candidates present dual-enrollment math coursework well past that level. In fact, during a recent Instagram Live, UVA’s dean addressed a student’s question on this very topic.

I previously shared that our college counselor emphasized the same point—and we spoke with four different counselors before making a selection. Every one of them focused on the importance of math sequencing and asked whether our oldest child would be on track to take dual-enrollment math (he would not). While this is clearly an important factor in admissions, it is not a path available—or suitable—for every student. Certainly, it will not be for my oldest.

Do you have a link to clarify what UVA and VT have publicly stated? I am very doubtful dual enrollment classes like Multivariable are giving a leg up for admissions. If kids take AP Stats instead of Multivariable they won’t be dinged, regardless of the claims made on various forums.

Colleges like MIT and Caltech mention Calculus as being important, taken as AP, IB or DE.

https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

https://www.admissions.caltech.edu/apply/preparing-for-caltech/selecting-high-school-courses

From the Caltech link:

We never expect you to enroll in other institutions to take more STEM courses, but we do want you to stay connected to math throughout high school in preparation for the core curriculum. That could be through the free Khan Academy or a textbook you pick up on your own to explore.


In my view if your thing is taking more advanced math, then great, why not. But to do it expecting a bump or advantage in college admissions is misguided.

I don’t think students pursue advanced math sequencing because it’s “required,” but rather to gain an edge in the admissions process. College admissions function on a point system, and when comparing a student who stops at Calculus to one who has gone a year or more beyond BC Calculus, the latter typically earns more points. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp if you understand how admissions decisions are made. That said, this path isn’t necessary for everyone, but it is an option for those who are able to pursue it to make their applications more competitive.

Please find me a shred of evidence that the student who goes past Calculus BC earns more points.

You won’t because it’s not true. The application won’t be more competitive.

You are trying to derail the competition.

Kids who take math beyond Calculus BC in HS are auto admits to HYPSM. Once they see Multi and Linear they know they are in presence of a genius and admit the student immediately and not even look at recommendations.

I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Colleges care that you take the most rigorous courseload. At most schools, Calc BC is probably sufficient for that. That being said, kids are compared to the other kids from the same school. If a kid plans to major in engineering, math, or physics, and the kid's school is chock full of kids who will have post-BC calc math classes, high grades, high test scores, and great recommendations, the kid will look comparatively worse if they're only in Calc BC.

I don’t think that’s the case though. For these top colleges and stem majors you need to do calculus and sciences, but I haven’t seen it anywhere that going past BC confers an advantage.

Being an athlete, extracurriculars, work experience carry more weight.

I didn't say that I thought it gave a general advantage. The AO will be comparing the applications for all of the kids in the same school. If the AO is sifting through 30 applications from your school and can only advance 5 to the next round, anything that stands out negatively would be bad for your kid. If most of the other kids from your school have post AP calc classes, then only having Calc BC looks comparatively worse. If few kids from your school are applying to the program, or if few kids have post-calc math, then only having Calc BC shouldn't matter.

You’re saying post calculus BC math done through dual enrollment gives kids an advantage within their own school. This is not true, or link to some evidence for it. There’s no most Uber rigorous coursework, only most rigorous. Once you check the box you’re good. Colleges specifically say they don’t expect you to enroll at institutions other than your high school.

No. I'm saying that at a school like TJ, only doing Calc BC as a 12th grader would be a disadvantage for top engineering programs when the school is known for STEM, has a ton of in-house resources, and has an overwhelming majority of kids taking post-BC classes. Kids are being judged in the context of their school, the normal tracks in their school, and the resources available in their school. AOs have a limited number of TJ applications they can push into the 2nd round, so anything that stands out negatively is going to hurt the kid.

DP I think what you are confused about is that not having math beyond Calc BC is considered as THE determining factor for engineering admission. It is absolutely not. You are hyper focused on math only which is simply not how applications are viewed by AO. Many TJ kids are lightining years ahead in math, but are rejected by VT and UVA year after year.

Wow. Either you're determined to create strawmen, or you have the reading comprehension of a 10 year old. I said that math level could stand out negatively in the context of one's school. You twisted that into me being "hyper focused on math only" and viewing it as "THE determining factor for engineering admission." There's no point in even speaking to you, since you're either a crazy person or arguing in bad faith.

DP, I don’t think what you are saying is true beyond taking Calculus BC.

A kind entering at Geometry in 9th won’t be penalized for his middle school offering only Algebra 1.

The other route for acceleration is taking math electives. I don’t see how linear algebra is a better elective than another stem course. Students have different interests and strengths, it’s not like math is the preferred subject for admissions.

The PP argued that there are many advanced math students from TJ that took Multivariable and other DE courses and still get rejected from stem programs at VA and VT, while students with less advanced math coursework get in. Thats supports the argument that math level past Calculus BC is not a determining factor for admissions.

DP... it supports the argument that math level beyond BC is not *THE* determining factor for admissions. It does not necessarily support the argument that math level beyond BC is not *A* determining factor for admissions.

I agree with the PP that top programs looking at kids applying from TJ, when looking at two similar-rated kids that one being a year or two farther ahead in Math could be one among many differentiators they consider. Just like they look at whether the "most rigorous courseload" was followed.

No, people are grossly misunderstanding what colleges are looking for when they talk about "most rigorous" -- it's not as literal as you think and they don't rank kids by math class.