Benefits of taking Algebra 1 in 6th grade

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get stuck on the idea that the path to a good stem college is the highest level of math, Olympiad competitions, and science fairs. Something where you’re compared with others and end up on top. Then everyone wants to follow this path and get “packaged” as winning the most comparisons to “impress” the AOs. It can’t hurt if it’s “more”.

The issue is the opportunity cost of finding something you truly love doing even if it’s off the beaten path.

Good grief. It doesn't matter if everyone wants to follow this path, since there are limited olympiad slots. USAMO only takes around 250 kids per year, and a kid would need to earn it in 11th grade or lower to use it in a college application. Similar arguments can be made for USAPhO and USNCO. Very few kids would have this distinction in their application, no matter how many kids are trying to follow this path.

I have yet to meet an olympiad qualifier who isn't incredibly passionate about math or the specific science. The kids following and succeeding on this path have already found the thing they truly love.

How about the countless ones forced into that mold by striving tiger parents, did they also find the thing they truly love? What category does your kid fall in? Take your time before you answer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

You’re going a step further and say they have to take advantage of the math classes the school has to offer. And if they aren’t, it’s game over.

You keep going back to “everybody knows” and people you talked to, school and private counselors, nothing that can be independently verified.

Sounds like you made up your mind about what matters for college admissions. I’d say there are many ways to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion beyond doing problem sets, and sitting in hours long exams to see who scores the highest. We’ll have to disagree on this one, tbh your world view kind of sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

You’re going a step further and say they have to take advantage of the math classes the school has to offer. And if they aren’t, it’s game over.

You keep going back to “everybody knows” and people you talked to, school and private counselors, nothing that can be independently verified.

Sounds like you made up your mind about what matters for college admissions. I’d say there are many ways to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion beyond doing problem sets, and sitting in hours long exams to see who scores the highest. We’ll have to disagree on this one, tbh your world view kind of sucks.

Well, MIT flat out says in their application FAQs: "We want you to take the most challenging coursework available to you at your high school". It sounds like you've made up your mind that they don't mean what they're saying, and they're totally cool with kids slumming it in Calc when their peers at their same school are taking significantly more advanced classes. Obviously, the best way "to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion" is by neither doing competitions, nor taking advantage of all of the really cool classes offered at your school, but instead taking standard classes available everywhere and not even having any objective metrics to substantiate your competency.

For the bolded, maybe you need to take that up with MIT. They love snapping up the MOP kids, and they certainly love crushing the Putnam each year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

That's good to know. I then also hallucinated talking to the teacher who explained that they are both accredited as an AP school as well hold an adjunct appointment at the college.
The course follows the syllabus of the AP curriculum, mostly, but they also must include units that are part of the college curriculum for the equivalent course. In Virginia's CC system, btw, AP Precalculus is combined with MTH 167.
They are audited yearly by the college to ensure that (the few things) MTH 167 has that AP Precalculus doesn't are included. Calculus AB is MTH 263, btw.

I have only imagined all of this. Let me wake up from my dream.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People get stuck on the idea that the path to a good stem college is the highest level of math, Olympiad competitions, and science fairs. Something where you’re compared with others and end up on top. Then everyone wants to follow this path and get “packaged” as winning the most comparisons to “impress” the AOs. It can’t hurt if it’s “more”.

The issue is the opportunity cost of finding something you truly love doing even if it’s off the beaten path.

Good grief. It doesn't matter if everyone wants to follow this path, since there are limited olympiad slots. USAMO only takes around 250 kids per year, and a kid would need to earn it in 11th grade or lower to use it in a college application. Similar arguments can be made for USAPhO and USNCO. Very few kids would have this distinction in their application, no matter how many kids are trying to follow this path.

I have yet to meet an olympiad qualifier who isn't incredibly passionate about math or the specific science. The kids following and succeeding on this path have already found the thing they truly love.

How about the countless ones forced into that mold by striving tiger parents, did they also find the thing they truly love? What category does your kid fall in? Take your time before you answer.

WTH is your problem? Do you really believe that no kids love math and want to do olympiads? Have you never attended Mathcounts nationals or ARML or any other big competition and watched the kids excitedly talking about math with each other for hours on end? I actually discouraged my kid from spending as much time as he does with math competitions (around 10 hours per week). I'd be much happier if he instead continued with the same sport that everyone else in the family does. He's the one who wants to do the math. I'm sure you'll choose to disbelieve this and label everyone with a motivated kid as a striving tiger parent who is lying, since you seem like exactly that kind of person.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

That's good to know. I then also hallucinated talking to the teacher who explained that they are both accredited as an AP school as well hold an adjunct appointment at the college.
The course follows the syllabus of the AP curriculum, mostly, but they also must include units that are part of the college curriculum for the equivalent course. In Virginia's CC system, btw, AP Precalculus is combined with MTH 167.
They are audited yearly by the college to ensure that (the few things) MTH 167 has that AP Precalculus doesn't are included. Calculus AB is MTH 263, btw.

I have only imagined all of this. Let me wake up from my dream.

You’re digging yourself deeper, seriously, why lie about it? Again these are not combined AP/DE courses. They may be community college classes with a similar content as an AP class, but it’s not an AP class. Students can register to take the AP exam as independent study, but it doesn’t mean they took an AP class, which is a high school class that passes the College Board audit.

Who is accredited as an AP school, the community college, the instructor? It doesn’t matter if the high school teacher is an adjunct at the community college since they teach two distinct courses. You’re so confused about the whole thing it’s comical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

You’re going a step further and say they have to take advantage of the math classes the school has to offer. And if they aren’t, it’s game over.

You keep going back to “everybody knows” and people you talked to, school and private counselors, nothing that can be independently verified.

Sounds like you made up your mind about what matters for college admissions. I’d say there are many ways to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion beyond doing problem sets, and sitting in hours long exams to see who scores the highest. We’ll have to disagree on this one, tbh your world view kind of sucks.

Well, MIT flat out says in their application FAQs: "We want you to take the most challenging coursework available to you at your high school". It sounds like you've made up your mind that they don't mean what they're saying, and they're totally cool with kids slumming it in Calc when their peers at their same school are taking significantly more advanced classes. Obviously, the best way "to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion" is by neither doing competitions, nor taking advantage of all of the really cool classes offered at your school, but instead taking standard classes available everywhere and not even having any objective metrics to substantiate your competency.

For the bolded, maybe you need to take that up with MIT. They love snapping up the MOP kids, and they certainly love crushing the Putnam each year.

Good luck to all the 6th graders in Algebra 1, for their future participation in Putnam, which btw has absolutely nothing to do with taking high school differential equations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

You’re going a step further and say they have to take advantage of the math classes the school has to offer. And if they aren’t, it’s game over.

You keep going back to “everybody knows” and people you talked to, school and private counselors, nothing that can be independently verified.

Sounds like you made up your mind about what matters for college admissions. I’d say there are many ways to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion beyond doing problem sets, and sitting in hours long exams to see who scores the highest. We’ll have to disagree on this one, tbh your world view kind of sucks.

Well, MIT flat out says in their application FAQs: "We want you to take the most challenging coursework available to you at your high school". It sounds like you've made up your mind that they don't mean what they're saying, and they're totally cool with kids slumming it in Calc when their peers at their same school are taking significantly more advanced classes. Obviously, the best way "to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion" is by neither doing competitions, nor taking advantage of all of the really cool classes offered at your school, but instead taking standard classes available everywhere and not even having any objective metrics to substantiate your competency.

For the bolded, maybe you need to take that up with MIT. They love snapping up the MOP kids, and they certainly love crushing the Putnam each year.

Good luck to all the 6th graders in Algebra 1, for their future participation in Putnam, which btw has absolutely nothing to do with taking high school differential equations.

Again, do you really, really not grasp that you are speaking with multiple people in this thread? I'm the quoted PP, and I've flat out said that I don't really think 6th grade Algebra will matter. Our point of disagreement is that I believe that 7th grade algebra/ 11th grade BC calc would matter in a school where those are widely taken and many peers would have solid full-package applications with the higher rigor. You seem to think that when MIT says that they want you to take the most challenging coursework available at your school, they're lying to you. But hey, keep believing what you wish and throwing out non-sequiturs. Obviously, the most rational reply when you claim that MIT doesn't care about olympiads, and then I correct you by pointing out that MIT loves MOP kids and wants to crush the Putnam, is to say something stupid about 6th grade Algebra I. Your intellect is truly dizzying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^Also, this seems like another situation where people want it to be a black and white issue, when in reality it isn't. There's a lot of space between stating that math level doesn't matter at all and math level is the end all and be all.

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who is not pushing an agenda that higher math level is better than a lower one if all else is equal. How much it matters is very debatable, but a higher math level is undoubtedly a factor that would be in the positive column, among many, many other things.

The argument is that it’s not a gradation and once you get to a certain threshold, the extra math level is not that important. The many, many other things factor more and the differential equations class is in the noise floor.

Since the admission is holistic, it’s hard to tell exactly how much it matters, but we should give some consideration to how colleges say they evaluate applicants. They say they don’t expect above and beyond. I don’t think they lie, or that it’s a generic statement to encourage applicant so they cash in the processing fee and keep the admissions rates low. I interpret it as looking for other ways for applicants to demonstrate talent.

I interpret it as that they don't expect above and beyond what is readily available at your school. If your school is TJ, and a lot of kids are taking a lot of very advanced classes, then taking those classes isn't "above and beyond." It's the norm for that school. They don't expect kids to seek out college programs if their school caps out at Calculus. But they do expect kids to take full advantage of what's available at their school.

What is expected vs. above and beyond is highly school dependent. That's why no one can give blanket advice on what's expected, including the colleges, themselves. The college counselor for your school or paid ones who are very familiar with your school will have a better understanding of what a kid needs from that school.

You’re going a step further and say they have to take advantage of the math classes the school has to offer. And if they aren’t, it’s game over.

You keep going back to “everybody knows” and people you talked to, school and private counselors, nothing that can be independently verified.

Sounds like you made up your mind about what matters for college admissions. I’d say there are many ways to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion beyond doing problem sets, and sitting in hours long exams to see who scores the highest. We’ll have to disagree on this one, tbh your world view kind of sucks.

Well, MIT flat out says in their application FAQs: "We want you to take the most challenging coursework available to you at your high school". It sounds like you've made up your mind that they don't mean what they're saying, and they're totally cool with kids slumming it in Calc when their peers at their same school are taking significantly more advanced classes. Obviously, the best way "to demonstrate talent, competency, and passion" is by neither doing competitions, nor taking advantage of all of the really cool classes offered at your school, but instead taking standard classes available everywhere and not even having any objective metrics to substantiate your competency.

For the bolded, maybe you need to take that up with MIT. They love snapping up the MOP kids, and they certainly love crushing the Putnam each year.

Good luck to all the 6th graders in Algebra 1, for their future participation in Putnam, which btw has absolutely nothing to do with taking high school differential equations.

Again, do you really, really not grasp that you are speaking with multiple people in this thread? I'm the quoted PP, and I've flat out said that I don't really think 6th grade Algebra will matter. Our point of disagreement is that I believe that 7th grade algebra/ 11th grade BC calc would matter in a school where those are widely taken and many peers would have solid full-package applications with the higher rigor. You seem to think that when MIT says that they want you to take the most challenging coursework available at your school, they're lying to you. But hey, keep believing what you wish and throwing out non-sequiturs. Obviously, the most rational reply when you claim that MIT doesn't care about olympiads, and then I correct you by pointing out that MIT loves MOP kids and wants to crush the Putnam, is to say something stupid about 6th grade Algebra I. Your intellect is truly dizzying.

Do you preface all posts with saying I’m not replying to you? Great, stay out of that conversation.

Me: there are many ways to demonstrate talent beyond classes and competitions

You: wrong, MIT cares about international math Olympiad winners and Putnam.

Me: good luck to the future Putnam winners

Not only your reading comprehension is terrible, but also you have no sense of humor.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

That's good to know. I then also hallucinated talking to the teacher who explained that they are both accredited as an AP school as well hold an adjunct appointment at the college.
The course follows the syllabus of the AP curriculum, mostly, but they also must include units that are part of the college curriculum for the equivalent course. In Virginia's CC system, btw, AP Precalculus is combined with MTH 167.
They are audited yearly by the college to ensure that (the few things) MTH 167 has that AP Precalculus doesn't are included. Calculus AB is MTH 263, btw.

I have only imagined all of this. Let me wake up from my dream.

You’re digging yourself deeper, seriously, why lie about it? Again these are not combined AP/DE courses. They may be community college classes with a similar content as an AP class, but it’s not an AP class. Students can register to take the AP exam as independent study, but it doesn’t mean they took an AP class, which is a high school class that passes the College Board audit.

Who is accredited as an AP school, the community college, the instructor? It doesn’t matter if the high school teacher is an adjunct at the community college since they teach two distinct courses. You’re so confused about the whole thing it’s comical.

Your lack of knowledge about delivery models for DE, AP, and DE/AP courses is paralleled by your lack of knowledge about the impact of taking Algebra in 6th.

I will grant you that DE/AP classes aren't particularly common. If your child's school's AP classes aren't dual-enrollment, talk to your child's school administrator. It's not terribly difficult to get them listed at your local college, given how close the curricula are with the new AP Precalculus, as well as Calc I (AB) and Calc II (BC).

[Anonymous]

PS: another parent forum where combined DE/AP is discussed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

That's good to know. I then also hallucinated talking to the teacher who explained that they are both accredited as an AP school as well hold an adjunct appointment at the college.
The course follows the syllabus of the AP curriculum, mostly, but they also must include units that are part of the college curriculum for the equivalent course. In Virginia's CC system, btw, AP Precalculus is combined with MTH 167.
They are audited yearly by the college to ensure that (the few things) MTH 167 has that AP Precalculus doesn't are included. Calculus AB is MTH 263, btw.

I have only imagined all of this. Let me wake up from my dream.

You’re digging yourself deeper, seriously, why lie about it? Again these are not combined AP/DE courses. They may be community college classes with a similar content as an AP class, but it’s not an AP class. Students can register to take the AP exam as independent study, but it doesn’t mean they took an AP class, which is a high school class that passes the College Board audit.

Who is accredited as an AP school, the community college, the instructor? It doesn’t matter if the high school teacher is an adjunct at the community college since they teach two distinct courses. You’re so confused about the whole thing it’s comical.

Your lack of knowledge about delivery models for DE, AP, and DE/AP courses is paralleled by your lack of knowledge about the impact of taking Algebra in 6th.

I will grant you that DE/AP classes aren't particularly common. If your child's school's AP classes aren't dual-enrollment, talk to your child's school administrator. It's not terribly difficult to get them listed at your local college, given how close the curricula are with the new AP Precalculus, as well as Calc I (AB) and Calc II (BC).

In summary, you’re lying about your child taking a “combined AP/DE class” for Calculus AB as a freshman, before even finishing precalculus, to force school placement directly in BC in sophomore, because the DE “portion” of the class was undersigned by the college. When you’re challenged about it, you post some random stuff you find online and after a while you realize combined AP/DE classes aren’t “particularly common”, but suggest talking to the school administrator to get thigh school AP classes “listed” at the local community college.

First, you should be embarrassed for posting all this, second, you are a complete idiot to imagine you’re fooling everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great! People who don't want math acceleration can opt out, and those who want it can have it available. Everyone should choose what they think works best for their child.

Anyone who truly believes that math acceleration confers no benefit shouldn't be bothered by other kids who do accelerate.

Sounds about right.

But if you go on a public forum claiming it’s beneficial for admissions at top colleges, don’t be surprised if you get some pushback.

Where would the advanced students go if not to top colleges? Of course not all, but a good number get offers from best colleges.

If 700 kids take Algebra in 6 in one district alone, it’s not possible that half of it will make it to top colleges. Probably not even 10%.

Colleges want to see a rigorous coursework and evidence the student can handle the classes for intended major. A kid entering high school at geometry, getting A, and completing AP calculus BC with 5, will check the most rigorous mark, and there’s no reason to believe they can’t handle more advanced college classes.

Taking more math classes won’t change that, it just means the kid was set on that path from elementary school because the parents put in the effort. Look up details in Harvard vs. Fair Admissions, at no point the DE math came out as a factor.

It’s going to be down to other things first and DE math has a negligible impact.

Colleges won't know that when they need to admit. They'll at most see the grades for the first quarter of Calc BC, and they won't have an AP score in the application packet for a kid taking BC in 12th. Kids who take BC in 11th will have both a full course grade and the AP score available in their application packet.

For the second bolded point, that depends entirely on the school district. In FCPS and LCPS, 7th grade Algebra has very little to do with parental effort and a lot more to do with natural math aptitude. The bar is not high, and many kids clear the bar with nothing more than the math taught in their schools.

If a student enters high school at precalculus, it is expected they’ll keep taking math over the years, and that implies math offered at high school or outside, and will include Calculus, Statistics, and others like Multivariable.

If a student enters high school at geometry, taking a regular progression of one math class per year they’ll end up at Calculus in senior year. While AP exam is not available, grades in first semester are.

Both are taking full advantage of what’s available to them in high school, colleges won’t be looking at what was done in middle school. It’s not expected students use their summers to advance in math.

One caveat is that students advanced in math often do other activities that make them better applicants, but that a classic example of correlation without causation.

People are so invested in believing their kid has a leg up, there’s nothing to convince them otherwise.

If your high school offers through multivariable calculus and your student enters high school in geometry and takes up through calc AB…no, they aren’t taking advantage of what is available to them. They are taking what’s appropriate for them, but that’s different from what’s available

Ok, somehow you know better than colleges themselves, but haven’t provided anything to substantiate your deeply held belief:

Here is what MIT says about the coursework in high school:

“To be clear, we do not expect students do anything above and beyond what is required to demonstrate their readiness for the MIT education. However, we also know that many of our applicants have interests, aptitudes, and curiosities that may carry themselves beyond what is offered at their local high school, and the resources here may help you explore those further if you wish.⁠”

Readiness is detailed in this link, Calculus being highest level of math that’s expected:
https://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/foundations/

You’re so enamored of the idea that your kid has a leg up from taking algebra in 6th grade that there’s nothing that could change your mind about it.

If your interest in math is leading to taking dual enrollment classes, that’s great. If your thing is being part of math club and tutor other students, doing research, or whatever floats your boat, that’s equally good. You won’t be dinged because you “only” took Calculus.

Please realize “readiness” for applicants is the minimum to apply. If you like at who is actually admitted and attends, the vast majority have had math beyond calc BC

If they took Statistics they'd understand the difference between correlation and causation.

MIT smirks at the "rigor" of a high school / dual Enrollment Multivariable Calc / Linear Algebra class. That's not what impresses them.

+1

What are you talking about? It isn’t what impresses them per se, but the majority of applicants getting accepted are going to have post BC calc math (among other impressive things).

That’s likely true for math majors, not sure you can generalize to all admits.

If you read what MIT says about post BC Calculus it’s clear those classes don’t carry as much weight as APs in Physics and Chemistry.

The rigor in DE varies widely, just from my kid taking Multivariable at the local community college, it’s easy to get an A without mastery and they don’t even cover the entire material. Colleges know this very well, yes, it adds something, but it won’t be the determining factor. And it’s not required, someone getting a 5 in Calculus BC would have absolutely no problem acing the community college Multivariable, so it’s not really a significant differentiator.

Since the acceleration occurs mostly in middle school, it says very little about talent and ability and more about socioeconomic status, it’s mostly parents buying enrichment and pushing for higher math placement. Again colleges know this, it’s not a secret to anyone, and it’s not the back door to top colleges as some claim.

The colleges know your socioeconomic status. Obviously, they’ll treat FGLI kids differently from UMC ones. If you’re a UMC kid, and most of the top kids from your school are in multivariable, you’ll look like a kid who is less motivated or less intelligent than your peer group.

You won’t look less motivated and less intelligent because your parents weren’t pushy enough to place you in Algebra in 6th grade. So much cope and wishful thinking from tiger parents.

You can still do Algebra in 7th and have no dual enrollment math if the school enforces Calculus AB then BC sequence or the student chooses to take AP Statistics in senior year. It’s not going to be looked down at.

Easy fix: take the AP AB exam as external student, then they have to admit you to BC directly.

No they don't. And good luck finding a spot

They do if the class is AP/DE and the participating college through which the class is offered accepts AP credit for Calc AB.

AP, which is what you were talking about, is not offered through a college.

Suppose the school says they won't offer high school credit for an AB score. What would your next steps be?

We don't need or want high school credit for AB. There's just not enough room in the schedule for AB given all the other AP courses DC will have to take in their sophomore year. Plus there needs to be room for fun classes like band/orchestra, foreign languages, and perhaps another elective like Robotics.

We just insist on being placed into the DE/AP Calculus BC course since we meet the prerequisites as posed by the college undersigning the DE portion.
Again, the courses are AP/DE (combined), not just AP. Students receive both DE credit and can take the AP exam.

You sound like a parent of a middle school student that doesn’t fully understand how AP, math placement, high school and dual enrollment credit works. You really seem very ignorant of the topic.

As it was mentioned before, the are no AP/DE combined courses. AP is a designation given by a private organization College Board if a course passes an audit. DE are classes taken for both high school and college while the student is enrolled at both institutions. Sometimes magnet schools call their advanced courses DE, but they are just electives and will not get any credit anywhere.

The reality is that if the school requests AP before BC taken at the school, there’s not much you can do, they are not obligated to accept outside courses and examinations.

That’s assuming you can find a school that will agree to accept your kid for the exam. There are stories of homeschooling parents calling all high school within a three hour driving radius and still not being able to find a spot because high schools are not obligated to accommodate your child.

You seem to be very confident of your kids abilities to pass the AP Calculus AB in 9th grade, even before finishing precalculus. That’s not a given, but hope dies last.

For dual enrollment at local community colleges, there may be age restrictions and your child might not be able to enroll until 11th grade and there are prerequisite to meet, again you’ll have to complete precalculus and trigonometry before enrolling in Calculus 1.

You know very little, but I love your confidence in telling others that what colleges say on their admissions websites doesn’t matter, offering advice on what MIT wants etc. You are in need of a generous portion of humility, because your only qualification is your kid takes algebra in 6th grade.

Thank you for enlightening me. I must have imagined that the school cashed our check, provided the 6-digit join code and now the AB exam shows up in my child AP classroom.
Thank you correcting my hallucinations.

Also thank you for clarifying that there are no combined AP/DE courses. I must have imagined the big letters that say "DE/AP" on the LMS website of the class our child is enrolled in.

For sure you’re hallucinating, because there are no combined AP/DE classes where a college undersigns the DE portion of the class. What does that even mean?

Link to the website if you have it.

For reasons of anonymity, I'm not going to share the district I'm in, just an example of it:
CORONA DEL SOL HIGH SCHOOL offers:

AP Calculus BC taught by <name elided> is the same as dual-enrollment
Calculus with Analytic Geometry I MAT221 + Calculus with Analytic Geometry II MAT231.

That's in Arizona, local districts have similar arrangements.

Sigh. Sure, for anonymity reasons. Is that all you could find googling frantically? These are not “combined AP/DE courses”. That’s just a sheet telling students what community college classes have similar content with equivalent AP classes.

I’m baffled why you are making this all up, you’re such an idiot to think you can fool anyone.

That's good to know. I then also hallucinated talking to the teacher who explained that they are both accredited as an AP school as well hold an adjunct appointment at the college.
The course follows the syllabus of the AP curriculum, mostly, but they also must include units that are part of the college curriculum for the equivalent course. In Virginia's CC system, btw, AP Precalculus is combined with MTH 167.
They are audited yearly by the college to ensure that (the few things) MTH 167 has that AP Precalculus doesn't are included. Calculus AB is MTH 263, btw.

I have only imagined all of this. Let me wake up from my dream.

You’re digging yourself deeper, seriously, why lie about it? Again these are not combined AP/DE courses. They may be community college classes with a similar content as an AP class, but it’s not an AP class. Students can register to take the AP exam as independent study, but it doesn’t mean they took an AP class, which is a high school class that passes the College Board audit.

Who is accredited as an AP school, the community college, the instructor? It doesn’t matter if the high school teacher is an adjunct at the community college since they teach two distinct courses. You’re so confused about the whole thing it’s comical.

Your lack of knowledge about delivery models for DE, AP, and DE/AP courses is paralleled by your lack of knowledge about the impact of taking Algebra in 6th.

I will grant you that DE/AP classes aren't particularly common. If your child's school's AP classes aren't dual-enrollment, talk to your child's school administrator. It's not terribly difficult to get them listed at your local college, given how close the curricula are with the new AP Precalculus, as well as Calc I (AB) and Calc II (BC).

In summary, you’re lying about your child taking a “combined AP/DE class” for Calculus AB as a freshman, before even finishing precalculus, to force school placement directly in BC in sophomore, because the DE “portion” of the class was undersigned by the college. When you’re challenged about it, you post some random stuff you find online and after a while you realize combined AP/DE classes aren’t “particularly common”, but suggest talking to the school administrator to get thigh school AP classes “listed” at the local community college.

First, you should be embarrassed for posting all this, second, you are a complete idiot to imagine you’re fooling everyone.

Sorry for your lack of reading comprehension. DC is taking a DE/AP Precalculus class as a freshman, will get transferable college credit, will take the AP Precalculus exam, and attends an AP audited course.
Separately, he has also enrolled in the AP Calc AB exam as an external student (his currently not taking a AP/DE Calc AB class), which is a service his school offers to the community (home schoolers etc.)
Next year, though, if he passes the AP Calc AB exam, which I have no doubt he will, he'll enroll in the also combined DE/AP Calculus BC course because he will have met enrollment prerequisites. In other words, he'll test out of Calc AB.

This is, btw, not that unusual. We know kids who have completed BC in 9th grade without ever taking AB (private school though). In fact, FCPS doesn't typically require AB particularly for kids who've taken Precalculus BC.

Do you have a child in school, or are you just trolling?