a final warning to high school students in the college admissions game

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there have been people who have felt this way for all time--it's just now they have a public platform to share their views/experiences.

I don't know. Maybe it is certain majors or circles. A big chunk of my club sports team were Princeton grads (from the late 90s), and they all had a blast and loved Princeton. None were CS majors though.

I didn't mean particular to Princeton--I just mean we are now getting a window to the internal perspective of kids stressed anywhere. There are likely kids like Quon at all sorts of quality of schools and in settings that aren't school. And those who are stressed are more likely to use it as an outlet than those who are having a good time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with QB and colleges with low income kids is nobody gives them a crash course in social dynamics when you throw $65k kids into a pool where the majority are wealthy and super wealthy.

Lots of focus on academics and traditional college life, but nobody gives the “scared straight” talk about how jarring the different socio-economic strata may be.

There was an article several years back about how one Ivy school (it may have been Princeton) would give FA kids free tickets to student events and what not (that required an entry fee), but you had to wait in a separate line that basically “outed” you as poor. Well, the poor kids just stopped going until someone in the administration asked.

Also, it was only recently that many of these schools decided that they wouldn’t have students do work study in the dining halls, because it just created a terrible dynamic betweeen rich and poor.

Maybe they are starting to wake up to this…don’t know.

It depends on what statistics you look at. Princeton has reported that over 60% of students now receive some financial aid, but no doubt the student body is predominantly drawn from higher-income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem with QB and colleges with low income kids is nobody gives them a crash course in social dynamics when you throw $65k kids into a pool where the majority are wealthy and super wealthy.

Lots of focus on academics and traditional college life, but nobody gives the “scared straight” talk about how jarring the different socio-economic strata may be.

There was an article several years back about how one Ivy school (it may have been Princeton) would give FA kids free tickets to student events and what not (that required an entry fee), but you had to wait in a separate line that basically “outed” you as poor. Well, the poor kids just stopped going until someone in the administration asked.

Also, it was only recently that many of these schools decided that they wouldn’t have students do work study in the dining halls, because it just created a terrible dynamic betweeen rich and poor.

Maybe they are starting to wake up to this…don’t know.

I don't think that's Princeton. They don't charge for any student events.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with QB and colleges with low income kids is nobody gives them a crash course in social dynamics when you throw $65k kids into a pool where the majority are wealthy and super wealthy.

Lots of focus on academics and traditional college life, but nobody gives the “scared straight” talk about how jarring the different socio-economic strata may be.

There was an article several years back about how one Ivy school (it may have been Princeton) would give FA kids free tickets to student events and what not (that required an entry fee), but you had to wait in a separate line that basically “outed” you as poor. Well, the poor kids just stopped going until someone in the administration asked.

Also, it was only recently that many of these schools decided that they wouldn’t have students do work study in the dining halls, because it just created a terrible dynamic betweeen rich and poor.

Maybe they are starting to wake up to this…don’t know.

It depends on what statistics you look at. Princeton has reported that over 60% of students now receive some financial aid, but no doubt the student body is predominantly drawn from higher-income families.

Princeton is I think the most generous with FA. They give some $$s for incomes up to $300k and don't count house equity. I think the 60% figure includes a decent number of people getting $10k or something like that.

Still, a kid coming from a $300k family is probably better adjusted to the social environment than a QB kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem with QB and colleges with low income kids is nobody gives them a crash course in social dynamics when you throw $65k kids into a pool where the majority are wealthy and super wealthy.

Lots of focus on academics and traditional college life, but nobody gives the “scared straight” talk about how jarring the different socio-economic strata may be.

There was an article several years back about how one Ivy school (it may have been Princeton) would give FA kids free tickets to student events and what not (that required an entry fee), but you had to wait in a separate line that basically “outed” you as poor. Well, the poor kids just stopped going until someone in the administration asked.

Also, it was only recently that many of these schools decided that they wouldn’t have students do work study in the dining halls, because it just created a terrible dynamic betweeen rich and poor.

Maybe they are starting to wake up to this…don’t know.

I don't think that's Princeton. They don't charge for any student events.

The school profiled solved the problem by eliminating entry fees to events and then just wrapping into the "Fees" charge for Tuition and Fees. The FA kids were then free, while full pay were still paying, just up-front vs. per event.

I will try to find the article. Think it was NY Times.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really feel for this young man who seems kind and thoughtful and a little heartbroken. I hope everything gets better for him.

I agree, but I don't think posting this video showed good judgment. Making these blanket statements that strongly denigrate Princeton and then jumping to conclusions about other universities where he has no experience just sets him up for serious backlash from many points. I worry more about his mental health after posting this.

What kind of judgment did you have when you were 20 years old? Were you really great at seeing future ramifications?

Yeah, that’s what I thought.

[Anonymous]

The Ivies and other selective colleges have always had challenging academics, but not the grind, cutthroat mentality more typically found today. The grind factor is new and has become more typical over the past 15 years. I think this reflects the increase in STEM majors and students from families/cultures that accept/promote grind culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You do know you can transfer - right? I do not feel bad for anyone who just whines and doesn't try to do anything about it.

If you watch this kid’s YouTube video on where he got in, you will see he is the child of immigrants with a very low income. I don’t think transferring is easy for kids that are on large amounts of financial aid. He was a questbridge finalist or something, so under $65,000 HHI

Wonder if part of his problem is meeting kids there who have immense family wealth and he’s being eaten up with jealousy. It’s one thing to know that billionaires exist, it’s another to meet one and think “why him and not me?”

This is probably the most unlikely theory.

DP: I don't think PP's wording--eaten up with jealousy--or even jealousy at all is right. But I remember being barely MC in a selective school and encountering UMC+ kids and just being saddened by how people who could be so smart and nice in so many ways could have such a blithe cluelessness about how the world worked for the majority of people. Just so many thoughtless remarks. I could see they weren't mean-spirited, just so wholly removed from how life is experienced by the vast majority of people in this country and on this planet. I was doing fine academically and socially and this still felt like an almost existential issue to me sometimes: do I even want to be here with these people I am starting to care about who are so protected from so much of reality? I can imagine how it would be if it were compounded by greater academic/social pressures.

[Anonymous]

This kind of misery is the inevitable result of a culture that assigns your value as a human by the grades and scholastic awards that you get, rather than recognizing your intrinsic value as a human and contributing member of the society.

I am all for meritocracy and competition. But it needs to be modertated and balanced by an awareness of inherent dignity, of the value of people taking diverse paths, and of the need to appreciate all members of society for what they bring.

[Anonymous]

Lots of effort here to discount what he's saying.

But it is true that some of the top ivies are pressure cookers. Why deny that? You're taking uber competitive kids and putting them all in a new environment where all of a sudden everyone else is just as smart as them. It's rough. Why try and claim it's because of this kid's personal circumstances? Lots of folks say what he's saying. And he's just trying to remind you of this as you're navigating college choices. I don't think it was poor judgment. I think it was brave. He's trying to advocate for his values in a way that helps others. He's trying to say that maybe "elite" isn't worth the toxic environment. Good for him - I'd hire him.

This kid has some wisdom and you all are so entrenched in the idea of elite that you can't take it in. He's asking you to try and see things differently for your kids' sake. I honestly feel badly for the kids who are trained to chase status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Ivies and other selective colleges have always had challenging academics, but not the grind, cutthroat mentality more typically found today. The grind factor is new and has become more typical over the past 15 years. I think this reflects the increase in STEM majors and students from families/cultures that accept/promote grind culture.

+1. That’s why more great students are looking to SLACs, elite publics, and privates in the south.

[Anonymous]

Does anybody want to summarize what he said?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My heart aches for him because he’s clearly so sad and unhappy. 😢

AND I admit that I’m curious about the specifics that were missing from the video. What makes Princeton students “bad” for him? He talks about valuing the experience - what exactly has experienced that upset him so deeply?

I’m not doubting or questioning that something caused him to be disappointed and very at Princeton. But I genuinely don’t know what it is. His fellow students being cold or fake? A few classmates? A lot? And how so? Is there something specific about Princeton that caused this? And what did he mean about Brown and maybe Penn being “weird”? Examples of poor student behavior or institutional issues that make things “weird”?

Did anyone learn more by reading the comments? Any insights?

Many people in the comments commiserated.

Yes, but some, especially those at Brown, disagreed with his assessment. I really feel for him, but find the vague judgments, especially about other schools, should not be taken as fact. They really undermine his whole confessional, and I worry that the judgments will lead to blowback for him. I worry about his mental health more knowing this is public and so many classmates are seeing it. They are all "bad?" If only he had shared his feelings without the judgments.

Oh please. What is it with people who “worry about” someone’s mental health and then go forward publicly gossiping about them.

Take a look at the Kate Middleton thread. Same dynamic! 200+ pages!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anybody want to summarize what he said?

Very quickly...pressure-cooker environment filled with kids who are not the "best" people. Treat you differently one-on-one vs. when you are in a crowd...overly competitive..etc. Results in lots of depressed kids / unhappy college experience, etc.

Apparently, the Youtube kid is somewhat well known and started posting while in HS, and is a Questbridge kid, so comes from a low-income background.

[Anonymous]

If you go back and look at the older videos, this poor kid has been desperate for attention for years. It was going to be a bumpy ride wherever he went to college.