If MoCo need housing, why keep agricultural reserve?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think food shortages are going to be an issue in our lifetime or our children’s. Currently a ridiculous amount of our food comes from California .. with climate change, fires and droughts, how low can that continue? And the food coming from other countries? How long will that continue as they face shortages and political instability? We need more food grown in lots of different places and ideally closer to home than what we currently have. I don’t think the MoCo Ag preserve is being super well utilized at the moment but at least it is there if we need to repurpose it.

MD is too cold outside the summer to provide produce year round. CA is warm enough year round to provide produce, even in the winter.

I grow vegetables and fruit here in the summer, for like 3 maybe 4 months total, and fall fruits only last for like 2 weeks. I grew tomatoes in CA from early March until November.

-40 year CA resident who misses fresh produce year round.

Apples and squashes definitely last for longer than 2 weeks, if you store them properly. And no, Maryland is not too cold outside to provide produce year round. Have you been to farmers' markets?

There is no farmers market year round.

And I was referring to picking the fruit off of trees. The fruit is only ripe for like 2 weeks before they start to become overripe or drop.

Bethesda and Olney both have year round markets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And, we also purchased locally grown radishes, and kale. Many farmers here , and in places like Amish country, use hoop houses.

It's almost like people who want to pave over everything don't understand so much about history or where their food comes from.

I also know of a number of blighted shopping centers in eastern MoCo, one right by Glenmont metro, that could be redeveloped into successful townhouse / condo / retail developments of there was any desire on the part of the owners.

The Glenmont shopping center is actually doing very well. It just looks rundown. But yes, if the owners wanted to redevelop it, they could.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think food shortages are going to be an issue in our lifetime or our children’s. Currently a ridiculous amount of our food comes from California .. with climate change, fires and droughts, how low can that continue? And the food coming from other countries? How long will that continue as they face shortages and political instability? We need more food grown in lots of different places and ideally closer to home than what we currently have. I don’t think the MoCo Ag preserve is being super well utilized at the moment but at least it is there if we need to repurpose it.

MD is too cold outside the summer to provide produce year round. CA is warm enough year round to provide produce, even in the winter.

I grow vegetables and fruit here in the summer, for like 3 maybe 4 months total, and fall fruits only last for like 2 weeks. I grew tomatoes in CA from early March until November.

-40 year CA resident who misses fresh produce year round.

Apples and squashes definitely last for longer than 2 weeks, if you store them properly. And no, Maryland is not too cold outside to provide produce year round. Have you been to farmers' markets?

There is no farmers market year round.

And I was referring to picking the fruit off of trees. The fruit is only ripe for like 2 weeks before they start to become overripe or drop.

https://www.centralfarmmarkets.com/bethesda

what kind of locally grown produce do they have at that farmers market? Where are they growing berries, tomatoes in the winter? Is there a hothouse?

The only vegetables that grows in January/February in maryland are mushrooms. radishes and peas.. Rye, barley, and other cereal grains are planted for Fall/Winter.

Here is a list of what is grown by month, but it's not all inclusive.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/maryland-season...d-vegetables-2217184

What a very odd statement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I personally think food shortages are going to be an issue in our lifetime or our children’s. Currently a ridiculous amount of our food comes from California .. with climate change, fires and droughts, how low can that continue? And the food coming from other countries? How long will that continue as they face shortages and political instability? We need more food grown in lots of different places and ideally closer to home than what we currently have. I don’t think the MoCo Ag preserve is being super well utilized at the moment but at least it is there if we need to repurpose it.

MD is too cold outside the summer to provide produce year round. CA is warm enough year round to provide produce, even in the winter.

I grow vegetables and fruit here in the summer, for like 3 maybe 4 months total, and fall fruits only last for like 2 weeks. I grew tomatoes in CA from early March until November.

-40 year CA resident who misses fresh produce year round.

Apples and squashes definitely last for longer than 2 weeks, if you store them properly. And no, Maryland is not too cold outside to provide produce year round. Have you been to farmers' markets?

There is no farmers market year round.

And I was referring to picking the fruit off of trees. The fruit is only ripe for like 2 weeks before they start to become overripe or drop.

https://www.centralfarmmarkets.com/bethesda

what kind of locally grown produce do they have at that farmers market? Where are they growing berries, tomatoes in the winter? Is there a hothouse?

The only vegetables that grows in January/February in maryland are mushrooms. radishes and peas.. Rye, barley, and other cereal grains are planted for Fall/Winter.

Here is a list of what is grown by month, but it's not all inclusive.

https://www.thespruceeats.com/maryland-season...d-vegetables-2217184

Right, I like to eat more than mushrooms, radishes and peas in the winter.

We are importing almost all of our fruits from either another state or from Latin America.

If someone said to me at a party, "I like having fresh fruit imported from California or South America in winter, and so therefore they can get rid of the Ag Reserve for all I care," I would start laughing because I would assume it was a joke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, we also purchased locally grown radishes, and kale. Many farmers here , and in places like Amish country, use hoop houses.

It's almost like people who want to pave over everything don't understand so much about history or where their food comes from.

I also know of a number of blighted shopping centers in eastern MoCo, one right by Glenmont metro, that could be redeveloped into successful townhouse / condo / retail developments of there was any desire on the part of the owners.

The Glenmont shopping center is actually doing very well. It just looks rundown. But yes, if the owners wanted to redevelop it, they could.

I live down the street. There is a huge parking lot that is never even 1/4 full, and only a handful of decent small businesses. We go to the really good Korean barber shop and that's it. Lots and lots of parking lot available for redevelopment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, we also purchased locally grown radishes, and kale. Many farmers here , and in places like Amish country, use hoop houses.

It's almost like people who want to pave over everything don't understand so much about history or where their food comes from.

I also know of a number of blighted shopping centers in eastern MoCo, one right by Glenmont metro, that could be redeveloped into successful townhouse / condo / retail developments of there was any desire on the part of the owners.

The Glenmont shopping center is actually doing very well. It just looks rundown. But yes, if the owners wanted to redevelop it, they could.

I live down the street. There is a huge parking lot that is never even 1/4 full, and only a handful of decent small businesses. We go to the really good Korean barber shop and that's it. Lots and lots of parking lot available for redevelopment.

The rent paid to the owners is evidently fine, thus no redevelopment. Yes, the parking lot is ridiculously large, but most parking lots in Montgomery County are. For that matter, the parking garages at Glenmont Metro are also ridiculously large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the county has a hard time finding new space for schools, I think the Ag reserve and other green spaces should be on the table for new school construction. MoCo cant on one hand keep green lighting housing projects then claim there is no land to build new school to absorb the new students. They need to find a way to make it happen and it might involve some hard choices.

Hard disagree. Our agricultural lands should be protected forever. You build a school then you have a parking lot. You have roads leading up to it and housing be gets built up around it. This is not a good idea.

Other option might be to stop allowing overdevelopment in close-in areas, preserving remaining parks, stopping the trading of county-owned properties there for that owned by developers farther out, requiring area infrastrucute coincident with area development (as opposed to as an afterthought), etc.

What constitutes "overdevelopment"? Which parks aren't being preserved? Would you prefer for the development to be in far-out areas on former farmland?

Oh, look! It's the "earnest truth seeker" question-only poster from the MCPS forum coming to cast doubt on others' suggestions and setting up straw men without providing anything substantive for critique in return. Funny meeting you here!

Of course I'm not advocating for mushroom developments on far-flung farmland. I'd advocate for more responsible consideration of development in those higher-density areas, though. You know, school capacity and such.

We're all in favor of responsible consideration. We don't all mean the same things when we use the term "responsible consideration", though. Which is why it can be helpful to explain specifically what you mean. If that's truth-seeking, ok, seeking truth is good, though I'd settle for just some basic clarification.

Let's see...from the posts already:

Schools (capacity, upkeep, etc.)
Parks (preserve open space in built-out communities)
Public facilities (stop swapping government-owned sites away)

Not sure why you would suggest that those weren't clear enough for the purposes of a public discussion board. Folks can contribute their own thoughts as to what responsible development might look like.

I asked which parks had been removed, and then you fussed instead of answering. I don't think any parks have been removed.

I completely support swapping away the school bus depot that's right next to a Metro station. There should be housing there, not school bus storage.

Guess where they look to place schools in denser communities when they've given up previously government-owned sites to development and other special interests? Parks.

Would be nice to have public service facilities next to a Metro station. Nah! Who am I kidding? Nobody would want to access public services, educational or otherwise, via public transportation...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the county has a hard time finding new space for schools, I think the Ag reserve and other green spaces should be on the table for new school construction. MoCo cant on one hand keep green lighting housing projects then claim there is no land to build new school to absorb the new students. They need to find a way to make it happen and it might involve some hard choices.

Hard disagree. Our agricultural lands should be protected forever. You build a school then you have a parking lot. You have roads leading up to it and housing be gets built up around it. This is not a good idea.

Other option might be to stop allowing overdevelopment in close-in areas, preserving remaining parks, stopping the trading of county-owned properties there for that owned by developers farther out, requiring area infrastrucute coincident with area development (as opposed to as an afterthought), etc.

What constitutes "overdevelopment"? Which parks aren't being preserved? Would you prefer for the development to be in far-out areas on former farmland?

Oh, look! It's the "earnest truth seeker" question-only poster from the MCPS forum coming to cast doubt on others' suggestions and setting up straw men without providing anything substantive for critique in return. Funny meeting you here!

Of course I'm not advocating for mushroom developments on far-flung farmland. I'd advocate for more responsible consideration of development in those higher-density areas, though. You know, school capacity and such.

We're all in favor of responsible consideration. We don't all mean the same things when we use the term "responsible consideration", though. Which is why it can be helpful to explain specifically what you mean. If that's truth-seeking, ok, seeking truth is good, though I'd settle for just some basic clarification.

Let's see...from the posts already:

Schools (capacity, upkeep, etc.)
Parks (preserve open space in built-out communities)
Public facilities (stop swapping government-owned sites away)

Not sure why you would suggest that those weren't clear enough for the purposes of a public discussion board. Folks can contribute their own thoughts as to what responsible development might look like.

I asked which parks had been removed, and then you fussed instead of answering. I don't think any parks have been removed.

I completely support swapping away the school bus depot that's right next to a Metro station. There should be housing there, not school bus storage.

Guess where they look to place schools in denser communities when they've given up previously government-owned sites to development and other special interests? Parks.

Would be nice to have public service facilities next to a Metro station. Nah! Who am I kidding? Nobody would want to access public services, educational or otherwise, via public transportation...

Which parks have actually become schools?

Yes, it is nice to have public service facilities near a transit station. The Silver Spring Recreation and Aquatic Center, for example. The Wheaton county HQ building, for example. The Silver Spring and Chevy Chase library branches, for example.

[Anonymous]

So how much does the Ag reserve actually produce? Is there any data in that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the county has a hard time finding new space for schools, I think the Ag reserve and other green spaces should be on the table for new school construction. MoCo cant on one hand keep green lighting housing projects then claim there is no land to build new school to absorb the new students. They need to find a way to make it happen and it might involve some hard choices.

Hard disagree. Our agricultural lands should be protected forever. You build a school then you have a parking lot. You have roads leading up to it and housing be gets built up around it. This is not a good idea.

Other option might be to stop allowing overdevelopment in close-in areas, preserving remaining parks, stopping the trading of county-owned properties there for that owned by developers farther out, requiring area infrastrucute coincident with area development (as opposed to as an afterthought), etc.

What constitutes "overdevelopment"? Which parks aren't being preserved? Would you prefer for the development to be in far-out areas on former farmland?

Oh, look! It's the "earnest truth seeker" question-only poster from the MCPS forum coming to cast doubt on others' suggestions and setting up straw men without providing anything substantive for critique in return. Funny meeting you here!

Of course I'm not advocating for mushroom developments on far-flung farmland. I'd advocate for more responsible consideration of development in those higher-density areas, though. You know, school capacity and such.

We're all in favor of responsible consideration. We don't all mean the same things when we use the term "responsible consideration", though. Which is why it can be helpful to explain specifically what you mean. If that's truth-seeking, ok, seeking truth is good, though I'd settle for just some basic clarification.

Let's see...from the posts already:

Schools (capacity, upkeep, etc.)
Parks (preserve open space in built-out communities)
Public facilities (stop swapping government-owned sites away)

Not sure why you would suggest that those weren't clear enough for the purposes of a public discussion board. Folks can contribute their own thoughts as to what responsible development might look like.

I asked which parks had been removed, and then you fussed instead of answering. I don't think any parks have been removed.

I completely support swapping away the school bus depot that's right next to a Metro station. There should be housing there, not school bus storage.

Guess where they look to place schools in denser communities when they've given up previously government-owned sites to development and other special interests? Parks.

Would be nice to have public service facilities next to a Metro station. Nah! Who am I kidding? Nobody would want to access public services, educational or otherwise, via public transportation...

Which parks have actually become schools?

Yes, it is nice to have public service facilities near a transit station. The Silver Spring Recreation and Aquatic Center, for example. The Wheaton county HQ building, for example. The Silver Spring and Chevy Chase library branches, for example.

Kelley Park in Gaithersburg is now Harriet R Tubman Elementary school. There is still some park left, but the majority was taken for the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Considering the county has a hard time finding new space for schools, I think the Ag reserve and other green spaces should be on the table for new school construction. MoCo cant on one hand keep green lighting housing projects then claim there is no land to build new school to absorb the new students. They need to find a way to make it happen and it might involve some hard choices.

Hard disagree. Our agricultural lands should be protected forever. You build a school then you have a parking lot. You have roads leading up to it and housing be gets built up around it. This is not a good idea.

Other option might be to stop allowing overdevelopment in close-in areas, preserving remaining parks, stopping the trading of county-owned properties there for that owned by developers farther out, requiring area infrastrucute coincident with area development (as opposed to as an afterthought), etc.

What constitutes "overdevelopment"? Which parks aren't being preserved? Would you prefer for the development to be in far-out areas on former farmland?

Oh, look! It's the "earnest truth seeker" question-only poster from the MCPS forum coming to cast doubt on others' suggestions and setting up straw men without providing anything substantive for critique in return. Funny meeting you here!

Of course I'm not advocating for mushroom developments on far-flung farmland. I'd advocate for more responsible consideration of development in those higher-density areas, though. You know, school capacity and such.

We're all in favor of responsible consideration. We don't all mean the same things when we use the term "responsible consideration", though. Which is why it can be helpful to explain specifically what you mean. If that's truth-seeking, ok, seeking truth is good, though I'd settle for just some basic clarification.

Let's see...from the posts already:

Schools (capacity, upkeep, etc.)
Parks (preserve open space in built-out communities)
Public facilities (stop swapping government-owned sites away)

Not sure why you would suggest that those weren't clear enough for the purposes of a public discussion board. Folks can contribute their own thoughts as to what responsible development might look like.

I asked which parks had been removed, and then you fussed instead of answering. I don't think any parks have been removed.

I completely support swapping away the school bus depot that's right next to a Metro station. There should be housing there, not school bus storage.

Guess where they look to place schools in denser communities when they've given up previously government-owned sites to development and other special interests? Parks.

Would be nice to have public service facilities next to a Metro station. Nah! Who am I kidding? Nobody would want to access public services, educational or otherwise, via public transportation...

Which parks have actually become schools?

Yes, it is nice to have public service facilities near a transit station. The Silver Spring Recreation and Aquatic Center, for example. The Wheaton county HQ building, for example. The Silver Spring and Chevy Chase library branches, for example.

Kelley Park in Gaithersburg is now Harriet R Tubman Elementary school. There is still some park left, but the majority was taken for the school.

Take that up with the City of Gaithersburg.
https://www.gaithersburgmd.gov/government/projects-in-the-city/harriet-tubman-elementary-school

[Anonymous]

I’ve always believed the ag reserve is the biggest FU to poor people in the DC area. As if there isn’t enough agricultural land in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, we also purchased locally grown radishes, and kale. Many farmers here , and in places like Amish country, use hoop houses.

It's almost like people who want to pave over everything don't understand so much about history or where their food comes from.

I also know of a number of blighted shopping centers in eastern MoCo, one right by Glenmont metro, that could be redeveloped into successful townhouse / condo / retail developments of there was any desire on the part of the owners.

The Glenmont shopping center is actually doing very well. It just looks rundown. But yes, if the owners wanted to redevelop it, they could.

I live down the street. There is a huge parking lot that is never even 1/4 full, and only a handful of decent small businesses. We go to the really good Korean barber shop and that's it. Lots and lots of parking lot available for redevelopment.

The rent paid to the owners is evidently fine, thus no redevelopment. Yes, the parking lot is ridiculously large, but most parking lots in Montgomery County are. For that matter, the parking garages at Glenmont Metro are also ridiculously large.

Prepandemic, the parking lots at Glenmont were always full.

It's weird how you won't take the word of someone who lives nearby, neighbors have even petitioned to force that shopping center to redevelop.

It's like there are people who want to build on the ag reserve while letting eastern Moco go down and not do any redevelopment.

Great townhouses right next to the Glenmont metro replaced crappy old apartments and sold.out fast. A sfh and town home development,.just down the street, replaced a under used golf course and is now fully built out and occupied and prices are going up, if anything comes up for resale. Lots of options for large pieces of land in MoCo of the landlords are willing to sell and make $$$.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And, we also purchased locally grown radishes, and kale. Many farmers here , and in places like Amish country, use hoop houses.

It's almost like people who want to pave over everything don't understand so much about history or where their food comes from.

I also know of a number of blighted shopping centers in eastern MoCo, one right by Glenmont metro, that could be redeveloped into successful townhouse / condo / retail developments of there was any desire on the part of the owners.

The Glenmont shopping center is actually doing very well. It just looks rundown. But yes, if the owners wanted to redevelop it, they could.

I live down the street. There is a huge parking lot that is never even 1/4 full, and only a handful of decent small businesses. We go to the really good Korean barber shop and that's it. Lots and lots of parking lot available for redevelopment.

The rent paid to the owners is evidently fine, thus no redevelopment. Yes, the parking lot is ridiculously large, but most parking lots in Montgomery County are. For that matter, the parking garages at Glenmont Metro are also ridiculously large.

Prepandemic, the parking lots at Glenmont were always full.

It's weird how you won't take the word of someone who lives nearby, neighbors have even petitioned to force that shopping center to redevelop.

It's like there are people who want to build on the ag reserve while letting eastern Moco go down and not do any redevelopment.

Great townhouses right next to the Glenmont metro replaced crappy old apartments and sold.out fast. A sfh and town home development,.just down the street, replaced a under used golf course and is now fully built out and occupied and prices are going up, if anything comes up for resale. Lots of options for large pieces of land in MoCo of the landlords are willing to sell and make $$$.

PP, I support the Ag Reserve and would love to see the Glenmont Shopping Center redeveloped. There is no need to argue with me. The owners of the Glenmont Shopping Center apparently don't want to see it redeveloped, and they're the owners.

Pre-pandemic, the garages at Glenmont Metro were mostly empty 65% of the hours in the week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve always believed the ag reserve is the biggest FU to poor people in the DC area. As if there isn’t enough agricultural land in this country.

Redevelop all of the old rundown crap. Poor people do not want to live outside of Damascus. They want to be close in so they can use public transport when they take the bus and metro in to clean your house and raise your children.