What T20 school isn’t “grim” these days?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These threads about wanting the prestige without the grind all are so funny (or sad, depending on mentality). Just pick one and move on.

This oversimplifies it. There are prestigious schools where the grind is worse than most jobs. There are other prestigious schools where the hardest part is getting in.

What are those schools? I’ve heard Yale…

DC is always underwater with work at Yale, and the expectations from professors and from the students themselves are high. But the environment is rich with stimulation, and the kids love it there. They have a good time too, without alcohol if that is not your thing.

+1

Every single Yale alum I have met, and there have been quite a few in my area of work, gushed about how much they loved being at Yale.

[Anonymous]

It's not unanimous, but the large majority of people I know from Stanford really enjoyed it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Reading the Princeton thread.
And Northwestern thread….depressing.

Which T20 schools aren’t “grim” or soulless?

Looking for semi- intellectual but still social and lively.
Small class sizes key.
Where you know your classmates……
Humanities major.

Most kids at Princeton and Northwestern are quite happy and thriving. If you're going to make decisions based on the outliers, you probably shouldn't be looking at T20 schools because they will all have kids who weren't happy about their experiences.

Almost 1/3 of kids at Princeton major in computer science and engineering; add biological sciences and econ to the mix and that’s just over 1/2 of all students. This disproportion is only growing with expansion of engineering etc. Not a good place for a humanities major.

Wouldn’t that make a great for humanities major? Really small class sizes, access to professors and a ton of resources going your way since the herd has moved in another direction?

Not any more than Johns Hopkins is good for humanities majors. Sometimes life of the mind types don’t want to be surrounded by preprofessional grinder types.

Because the 'life of the mind' does not include trying to learn physics or chemistry or engineering, right? The life of the mind does not include facility with math or interest in biology, right?

Say you don’t have a humanities kid and did not major in humanities without saying you don’t have a humanities kid and did not major in humanities…

That was a lame response. The students have interests beyond their majors, and it's not like students are "preprofessional grinder types" just because they are majority in CS or ORFE any more than every Comparative Lit major intends to get a Ph.D and become a professor.

Lame is one word for it. My kids are both STEM majors but in no way, shape or form does that mean that they are non-intellectual grinds. While I would have had no problem with their being humanities majors if that was what they decided, I think a case can be made that as non-humanities majors, they are exposed to a greater breadth of 'intellectual' challenges because they have to understand math and physics, etc., in their majors but also pursue humanities courses in some depth. It is probably less common for a classics major to take 6 CS courses (or whatever it would take to minor in a STEM field) than it is for a STEM major to take 6 classes in order to minor in a humanities field. And I am by no means asserting that the classics major can't handle the CS courses - I am just arguing that they are less likely to pursue the non-humanities courses in as much depth.

[Anonymous]

Pomona, Wesleyan, Grinnell, Davidson, Smith.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say...Duke. Sun (most of the year), sports and spirit. Definitely not grim.

YMMV. My spouse went to Duke and has mixed feelings. Found their people there but overall felt like the students were spoiled and didn't like the fraternity/sorority scene there.

What year? Minimal fraternity/sorority scene now - what’s left has been moved off campus. So I’m curious to hear what it’s like now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reading the Princeton thread.
And Northwestern thread….depressing.

Which T20 schools aren’t “grim” or soulless?

Looking for semi- intellectual but still social and lively.
Small class sizes key.
Where you know your classmates……
Humanities major.

Most kids at Princeton and Northwestern are quite happy and thriving. If you're going to make decisions based on the outliers, you probably shouldn't be looking at T20 schools because they will all have kids who weren't happy about their experiences.

Almost 1/3 of kids at Princeton major in computer science and engineering; add biological sciences and econ to the mix and that’s just over 1/2 of all students. This disproportion is only growing with expansion of engineering etc. Not a good place for a humanities major.

Wouldn’t that make a great for humanities major? Really small class sizes, access to professors and a ton of resources going your way since the herd has moved in another direction?

Not any more than Johns Hopkins is good for humanities majors. Sometimes life of the mind types don’t want to be surrounded by preprofessional grinder types.

Because the 'life of the mind' does not include trying to learn physics or chemistry or engineering, right? The life of the mind does not include facility with math or interest in biology, right?

Say you don’t have a humanities kid and did not major in humanities without saying you don’t have a humanities kid and did not major in humanities…

That was a lame response. The students have interests beyond their majors, and it's not like students are "preprofessional grinder types" just because they are majority in CS or ORFE any more than every Comparative Lit major intends to get a Ph.D and become a professor.

Lame is one word for it. My kids are both STEM majors but in no way, shape or form does that mean that they are non-intellectual grinds. While I would have had no problem with their being humanities majors if that was what they decided, I think a case can be made that as non-humanities majors, they are exposed to a greater breadth of 'intellectual' challenges because they have to understand math and physics, etc., in their majors but also pursue humanities courses in some depth. It is probably less common for a classics major to take 6 CS courses (or whatever it would take to minor in a STEM field) than it is for a STEM major to take 6 classes in order to minor in a humanities field. And I am by no means asserting that the classics major can't handle the CS courses - I am just arguing that they are less likely to pursue the non-humanities courses in as much depth.

This is revealing of how STEM-types think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These threads about wanting the prestige without the grind all are so funny (or sad, depending on mentality). Just pick one and move on.

This oversimplifies it. There are prestigious schools where the grind is worse than most jobs. There are other prestigious schools where the hardest part is getting in.

What are those schools? I’ve heard Yale…

DC is always underwater with work at Yale, and the expectations from professors and from the students themselves are high. But the environment is rich with stimulation, and the kids love it there. They have a good time too, without alcohol if that is not your thing.

+1

Every single Yale alum I have met, and there have been quite a few in my area of work, gushed about how much they loved being at Yale.

We have a friend who gushes about Yale and works it into as many conversations as possible. She’s quite entertaining but has also struggled professionally to keep a job her entire adult life. I think she can’t quite get over how people only care so much about someone having a Yale degree and still expect Yale graduates to show up on time, get their work done on time, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These threads about wanting the prestige without the grind all are so funny (or sad, depending on mentality). Just pick one and move on.

This oversimplifies it. There are prestigious schools where the grind is worse than most jobs. There are other prestigious schools where the hardest part is getting in.

What are those schools? I’ve heard Yale…

DC is always underwater with work at Yale, and the expectations from professors and from the students themselves are high. But the environment is rich with stimulation, and the kids love it there. They have a good time too, without alcohol if that is not your thing.

+1

Every single Yale alum I have met, and there have been quite a few in my area of work, gushed about how much they loved being at Yale.

We have a friend who gushes about Yale and works it into as many conversations as possible. She’s quite entertaining but has also struggled professionally to keep a job her entire adult life. I think she can’t quite get over how people only care so much about someone having a Yale degree and still expect Yale graduates to show up on time, get their work done on time, etc.

Honestly, I have met people from all kinds of schools that gush over where they went. The most unbearable, by far, are Penn State alums.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kenyon, Wesleyan, Macalester, Haverford. Holy Cross, Boston College…

All great schools (several on my own DD’s list, so this is great to hear), but would these fit OP’s “T-20” requirement?

Of course not, but the whole point of the exercise was to tear down some actual T20 schools and boost some at the bottom of the T20 and some non-T20 schools.

+ 1,000

Spot on!

These days on DCUM it seems to be especially fashionable to tear down the ivies and their graduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's not unanimous, but the large majority of people I know from Stanford really enjoyed it.

Recent grads?? It’s an entirely different environment now than a few decades ago. My classmates had a great experience there. My kids’ friends do not like it.

[Anonymous]

Yes, recent grads. As I said, it's not unanimous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not unanimous, but the large majority of people I know from Stanford really enjoyed it.

Recent grads?? It’s an entirely different environment now than a few decades ago. My classmates had a great experience there. My kids’ friends do not like it.

Curious what they don’t like about it? I went to grad school there in the 90s but never got to know the undergrad culture too well. It does seem like the campus is trying to improve the social environment but I don’t know anybody there now

[Anonymous]

Brown, Rice, WashU, Vanderbilt, Yale, Emory. Also many LACs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not unanimous, but the large majority of people I know from Stanford really enjoyed it.

Recent grads?? It’s an entirely different environment now than a few decades ago. My classmates had a great experience there. My kids’ friends do not like it.

Curious what they don’t like about it? I went to grad school there in the 90s but never got to know the undergrad culture too well. It does seem like the campus is trying to improve the social environment but I don’t know anybody there now

My DC is at Stanford now and loves it. CS major with no prior background Has great friends and finds it very collaborative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

These threads about wanting the prestige without the grind all are so funny (or sad, depending on mentality). Just pick one and move on.

This oversimplifies it. There are prestigious schools where the grind is worse than most jobs. There are other prestigious schools where the hardest part is getting in.

What are those schools? I’ve heard Yale…

DC is always underwater with work at Yale, and the expectations from professors and from the students themselves are high. But the environment is rich with stimulation, and the kids love it there. They have a good time too, without alcohol if that is not your thing.

+1

Every single Yale alum I have met, and there have been quite a few in my area of work, gushed about how much they loved being at Yale.

Right, because they went there in the 1990s and 2000s. I went to Stanford and can say the same. That doesn’t take away from the fact that the Stanford campus is undeniably grim now.