Talk me off a ledge

[Anonymous]

The question of how committed your daughter is to pre-health is also a good one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

Does it actually pay? I know many doctors and lawyers, all in similar positions whether they went to regional, no name schools or Ivies.

I do wonder if it really pays especially when you factor in cost. I don't know that ESU is a good option here but my one close friend who is a doctor (and an Ivy grad) has a kid who wants to be a doctor and she goes to a well-ranked regional public university, saving money for medical school. They could afford more and she had the stats to be competitive for a higher ranked school (and their older child went to dad's Ivy (different career goals)) but felt this was the better approach for pre-med. But the public U she goes to would be more equivalent to Providence College or The College of New Jersey, the top ranked regional schools in the "North".

My cousin's kids went to their state U, although the one that wanted to become a doctor was also admitted to Hopkins. She's currently doing her residency, and has come out of med school, debt free. Good students with excellent GPA, MCAT scores, undergrad research experience, and good LOR should be on an even playing field, when it comes to med school admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

Does it actually pay? I know many doctors and lawyers, all in similar positions whether they went to regional, no name schools or Ivies.

I do wonder if it really pays especially when you factor in cost. I don't know that ESU is a good option here but my one close friend who is a doctor (and an Ivy grad) has a kid who wants to be a doctor and she goes to a well-ranked regional public university, saving money for medical school. They could afford more and she had the stats to be competitive for a higher ranked school (and their older child went to dad's Ivy (different career goals)) but felt this was the better approach for pre-med. But the public U she goes to would be more equivalent to Providence College or The College of New Jersey, the top ranked regional schools in the "North".

My cousin's kids went to their state U, although the one that wanted to become a doctor was also admitted to Hopkins. She's currently doing her residency, and has come out of med school, debt free. Good students with excellent GPA, MCAT scores, undergrad research experience, and good LOR should be on an even playing field, when it comes to med school admissions.

There is a huge difference between a state flagship and a regional school that is not even in the top 100 for that category.

[Anonymous]

My child chose a regional school over larger schools and its very difficult to find a summer internship. Consider how that name brand carries, or doesn't carry. I have never heard of ES.

Denison is sounding like a nice match if you got some merit.

[Anonymous]

I know someone who had this very similar choice, for nursing. She is a few years out of college. Her family could have paid for the in state flagship but she didn’t want to burden them and pushed for the lower tier school over her parents’ reservations.

In terms of career, it hasn’t made a huge difference. She is a nurse and doing great.

In terms of social life, I think it has made a huge difference. She went to a lower tier school and in a major that doesn’t attract high fliers. I have no doubt there are smart go getters at her school, but that’s not her circle. Her friends are noticeably different - more financial issues, family drama, more dropouts, etc. Her boyfriends have been similar. This is just her experience but to me, it felt like she ended up in a different SES. I know that sounds really snobby to say. But that is what I see.

I would think about their personality - if they aren’t that social and go along with whoever just ends up in their orbit, it could have long lasting impacts. Or maybe not!

[Anonymous]

OP, I understand your fear and frustration. I think at this point I would ask DD to take another very serious look at the middle options. She might change her mind about med school (as so many kids do) and she wants to be left with as many options as possible. Having a degree from a better school will be something she will take with her in every job or school search of her life. My DD was offered a full ride from a comparable school, and of course she was really excited and flattered. If she hadn't gotten in anywhere else she would have made the best of it. But because she knew she wanted to go someplace that might offer more choices for the future, and because she knew we could afford it, she never seriously considered taking the free ride. Some things aren't as "free" due to the opportunity cost. If you didn't have the funds for other places that would be different.

She's still a kid. If she hasn't thought all of that through you can gently and tactfully point it out. If she has thought all of it through and still wants to make that choice, then be supportive and proud and encourage her to make the most of the opportunity.

[Anonymous]

You you all feel the same about Kutztown? Similar profile?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had this very similar choice, for nursing. She is a few years out of college. Her family could have paid for the in state flagship but she didn’t want to burden them and pushed for the lower tier school over her parents’ reservations.

In terms of career, it hasn’t made a huge difference. She is a nurse and doing great.

In terms of social life, I think it has made a huge difference. She went to a lower tier school and in a major that doesn’t attract high fliers. I have no doubt there are smart go getters at her school, but that’s not her circle. Her friends are noticeably different - more financial issues, family drama, more dropouts, etc. Her boyfriends have been similar. This is just her experience but to me, it felt like she ended up in a different SES. I know that sounds really snobby to say. But that is what I see.

I would think about their personality - if they aren’t that social and go along with whoever just ends up in their orbit, it could have long lasting impacts. Or maybe not!

I think this is a good point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You you all feel the same about Kutztown? Similar profile?

Yes...Kutztown is basically identical albeit maybe every so slightly better. 96% acceptance rate...again, one step above a CC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You you all feel the same about Kutztown? Similar profile?

Gymnast?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many of you urging OP’s DD to go to ESU would send your own kid there, turning down Lehigh?
My concern would be that your DD may not be able transfer, coming from ESU, regardless of her grades.

I would. 100% no question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

Everyone focuses on medical school applicants only needing a strong GPA and high MCAT score. This is true. Med schl applicants absolutely need (extremely) strong stats. But applying to medical school is on a whole other level of competitiveness from undergrad admissions competitiveness, and much more is needed. Not optional, but required. Hundreds of clinical hours, volunteer hours, research experience, etc, etc. is required and is what everyone else who is applying to medical school will have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had this very similar choice, for nursing. She is a few years out of college. Her family could have paid for the in state flagship but she didn’t want to burden them and pushed for the lower tier school over her parents’ reservations.

In terms of career, it hasn’t made a huge difference. She is a nurse and doing great.

In terms of social life, I think it has made a huge difference. She went to a lower tier school and in a major that doesn’t attract high fliers. I have no doubt there are smart go getters at her school, but that’s not her circle. Her friends are noticeably different - more financial issues, family drama, more dropouts, etc. Her boyfriends have been similar. This is just her experience but to me, it felt like she ended up in a different SES. I know that sounds really snobby to say. But that is what I see.

I would think about their personality - if they aren’t that social and go along with whoever just ends up in their orbit, it could have long lasting impacts. Or maybe not!

I think this is a good point.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know someone who had this very similar choice, for nursing. She is a few years out of college. Her family could have paid for the in state flagship but she didn’t want to burden them and pushed for the lower tier school over her parents’ reservations.

In terms of career, it hasn’t made a huge difference. She is a nurse and doing great.

In terms of social life, I think it has made a huge difference. She went to a lower tier school and in a major that doesn’t attract high fliers. I have no doubt there are smart go getters at her school, but that’s not her circle. Her friends are noticeably different - more financial issues, family drama, more dropouts, etc. Her boyfriends have been similar. This is just her experience but to me, it felt like she ended up in a different SES. I know that sounds really snobby to say. But that is what I see.

I would think about their personality - if they aren’t that social and go along with whoever just ends up in their orbit, it could have long lasting impacts. Or maybe not!

I think this is a good point.

Hmmm. n=1

[Anonymous]

I would suggest taking the scholarship with the intention of transferring out after two years.