Talk me off a ledge

[Anonymous]

OP, I went to a commuter school. Think Mason, only poorer (much poorer). Even in a school like that, we had excellent instruction. Standout undergrads got opportunities in research, which is a requirement for admits to med school. Several of us had publications while we were undergrads.

Many of the kids in the lab where I did my research went on to medical schools. One is prominent in her field, and currently works at Stanford. I also forgot to mention that one of my cousins who went to a different commuter school, is a pediatrician.

Point is that if you have a stand out student, they're almost better off going to a somewhat lesser school where they can avail themselves of opportunities and not have to beat off stiff competition, than going someplace where it's a rat race. I would personally have zero problems sending my child anywhere safe they get a free ride. That 180K can grow a bit more in the next 4 years and she can use it for her grad education. Or if she chooses to go a different route, it will start off her retirement savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have you heard from Villanova, Colgate, and Lehigh already? You haven’t.

I don't know why you feel the need to sleuth it out but, for specific reasons, yes, we have. And, no, I'll not be adding any more context as it's not relevant to the question. Sorry.

I’m not sleuthing, but these are schools with ED, in which case you’re bound, or RD, notifying in March or April. If you’re fudging the details and the caliber of schools involved, which you clearly are, the question isn’t very interesting.

I have zero reason to fudge. zero. Looking for ACTUAL help here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How have you heard from Villanova, Colgate, and Lehigh already? You haven’t.

I don't know why you feel the need to sleuth it out but, for specific reasons, yes, we have. And, no, I'll not be adding any more context as it's not relevant to the question. Sorry.

I’m not sleuthing, but these are schools with ED, in which case you’re bound, or RD, notifying in March or April. If you’re fudging the details and the caliber of schools involved, which you clearly are, the question isn’t very interesting.

Lehigh actually released their College of Health RD decisions with ED2. It's a new college for them and they're building the program. That could be what OP's dd applied to if she didn't do straight up arts & sciences.

OP - what about Duquesne or Pitt? Great for nursing/health. As is Pittsburgh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

There is such a thing as a pond that's too small. ESU is the kind of school that turns out nurses and lab technicians not people who go to medical school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

[Anonymous]

Op, I’d ask directly for specifics for medical school placement. Also most kids who enter premed change their mind. How would job placement be if she entered a different field? The school is ranked 145th among regional colleges, as I already posted, that’s would be a no go for our family.There are plenty of premed kids from better colleges who will also have impressive gpas, and the quality of their school will be the difference maker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

Does it actually pay? I know many doctors and lawyers, all in similar positions whether they went to regional, no name schools or Ivies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I went to a commuter school. Think Mason, only poorer (much poorer). Even in a school like that, we had excellent instruction. Standout undergrads got opportunities in research, which is a requirement for admits to med school. Several of us had publications while we were undergrads.

Many of the kids in the lab where I did my research went on to medical schools. One is prominent in her field, and currently works at Stanford. I also forgot to mention that one of my cousins who went to a different commuter school, is a pediatrician.

Point is that if you have a stand out student, they're almost better off going to a somewhat lesser school where they can avail themselves of opportunities and not have to beat off stiff competition, than going someplace where it's a rat race. I would personally have zero problems sending my child anywhere safe they get a free ride. That 180K can grow a bit more in the next 4 years and she can use it for her grad education. Or if she chooses to go a different route, it will start off her retirement savings.

How long ago was this? Do you mind saying the school (or equivalent)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

Admittedly, I don't have experience with med schools, but if it's this simple, why doesn't everyone who wants to be a doctor take this approach? It would seem like much more of a sure thing than going to the higher ranked schools for undergrad. That makes me think there's more to it than that?

There's absolutely more to it than that. Because it's BS. There are ALWAYS outliers/exceptions, but as a rule - it pays to get the best education you can. Best professors, best connected prgrams that are well known in the field. This is simply fact. Anecdotes don't really prove anything. You CAN win the lottery, for example, but that doesn't mean you should buy a ticket every day as your retirement plan.

OP - is your dd making this decision because she senses your financial anxiety or has a sense of obligation? My dd chose her first school (and then transferred to a school like Lehigh/villanova) for financial reasons (we found out later) and it wasn't a good fit AT ALL. She admitted after freshman year that she felt guilty (even though we are full pay and never made her feel guilty). I'd be pretty honest about the best fit culturally and academically, socially. If you took money out of it, what would you do?

Does it actually pay? I know many doctors and lawyers, all in similar positions whether they went to regional, no name schools or Ivies.

I do wonder if it really pays especially when you factor in cost. I don't know that ESU is a good option here but my one close friend who is a doctor (and an Ivy grad) has a kid who wants to be a doctor and she goes to a well-ranked regional public university, saving money for medical school. They could afford more and she had the stats to be competitive for a higher ranked school (and their older child went to dad's Ivy (different career goals)) but felt this was the better approach for pre-med. But the public U she goes to would be more equivalent to Providence College or The College of New Jersey, the top ranked regional schools in the "North".

[Anonymous]

Go with the prestige. Your instincts are spot on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I went to a commuter school. Think Mason, only poorer (much poorer). Even in a school like that, we had excellent instruction. Standout undergrads got opportunities in research, which is a requirement for admits to med school. Several of us had publications while we were undergrads.

Many of the kids in the lab where I did my research went on to medical schools. One is prominent in her field, and currently works at Stanford. I also forgot to mention that one of my cousins who went to a different commuter school, is a pediatrician.

Point is that if you have a stand out student, they're almost better off going to a somewhat lesser school where they can avail themselves of opportunities and not have to beat off stiff competition, than going someplace where it's a rat race. I would personally have zero problems sending my child anywhere safe they get a free ride. That 180K can grow a bit more in the next 4 years and she can use it for her grad education. Or if she chooses to go a different route, it will start off her retirement savings.

How long ago was this? Do you mind saying the school (or equivalent)?

We're all in our late 40s/early 50s, so a while back. We all went to school in the CUNY system.

To address the question that someone else asked, as to why everyone wouldn't do this, it's because a) there is ZERO prestige, in fact, like the OP, some parents would have to be talked off the ledge, because it's not acceptable in their circles for kids to go to lesser schools and b) there is very little support from the institution. As in, you have to be pretty motivated and able to figure out the process yourself, with little guidance from the college's professional development offices (if such a thing exists at all). I didn't know any better, so I had no idea that there were things missing from what was available to us, but what was missing, was hand holding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I went to a commuter school. Think Mason, only poorer (much poorer). Even in a school like that, we had excellent instruction. Standout undergrads got opportunities in research, which is a requirement for admits to med school. Several of us had publications while we were undergrads.

Many of the kids in the lab where I did my research went on to medical schools. One is prominent in her field, and currently works at Stanford. I also forgot to mention that one of my cousins who went to a different commuter school, is a pediatrician.

Point is that if you have a stand out student, they're almost better off going to a somewhat lesser school where they can avail themselves of opportunities and not have to beat off stiff competition, than going someplace where it's a rat race. I would personally have zero problems sending my child anywhere safe they get a free ride. That 180K can grow a bit more in the next 4 years and she can use it for her grad education. Or if she chooses to go a different route, it will start off her retirement savings.

I still don't understand the term "pre-health"...nobody uses that term that plans to attend medical or dental school. So...is this really a trade like nursing or pharmacy? Makes a huge difference. If the latter, then ESU could be fine but you should look at job placement and what not. If the former, I would search out Door #3.

George Mason is 10x better than ESU. For those of you that don't know it...I would describe it as a small step above a Community College, but not much. I would be shocked if your kid ran into another kid that was actually accepted at Lehigh or Colgate and attended ESU. I am sorry...you won't find your group of "really smart kids" that chose to attend ESU because of cost.

That said, I am not arguing that you need to go completely the other way and pay $80k per year for Lehigh. I just don't know what Door #3 is for your kid. Just really weird options on the table right now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If she is really pre-health, this is idea. No undergrad tuition!!! Get a super high GPA, lean into whatever health opportunities exist in the area, and set yourself apart. Do well on MCAT and boom. I understand how you feel, but this may be a tremendous opportunity. For a business degree, I would have a different opinion.

This is the big fish/small pond approach. I went to a seminar given by college admissions officers - full disclosure it was a long time ago in a professional capacity -and they endorsed this approach to graduate school admission. If your kid is at the top of their class at ES, and they do great on the MCAT they might have an advantage over a kid who did just ok at Lehigh or Villanova.

But not over kids who did really well at Lehigh or Villanova.

[Anonymous]

I would think that the campus at ES is pretty dead. Less than half live on campus/tons of commuters. I don't think your dd will find like minded people there. I wouldn't do it.