Addressing Teaching Quality and Equity in Education at McLean High School

[Anonymous]

The parents worrying about tutors in MS and HS are the parents that choose not to do enrichment in ES. An understandable choice, I get prioritizing other activities, but the long term effect is that their kids are now effectively behind the percentage that choose enrichment. Now the AP classes are a struggle for some kids because there is another group that has already seen the material.

This.

At least at TJ, Langley HS, and McLean HS a plurality of the kids have had outside academic enrichment (or supplement, or pick a word) for years. The same is true for N. Arlington. And there are enrichment businesses (which are busy) scattered all around Arlington, Fairfax, and E. Loudoun counties.

In many cases, this has been math enrichment, but various reading/writing/grammar or other enrichment also happens. Most of the top math students (county-wide) in the same 3 counties have had external math enrichment (AoPS, Kumon, Mathnasium, or RSM) to help them get to that level.

Kids with top science projects often, not always, have a parent or relative who works in a research lab.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many of the students in my daughter’s math class sophomore year went home at night and used Khan academy (some needed tutoring too I am sure) because the teacher was that bad.

At a neighborhood barbecue a new arrival to the pyramid was shocked to hear this. She had elementary aged children. I was amused that she was so surprised. Langley may be high-performing but it is still a public school. It can be common knowledge that a teacher sucks, and they still stay on year after year. This was before the craziness of 2020. And the extra challenges it brought for everyone.
Overall the teachers have been excellent, others competent but there are no guarantees.

This was us a few years back (when we first moved here). The other surprise to us was that nearly everyone told us that “In FCPS, AAP is the standard track and GenEd is the slow track; do whatever it takes to get DC into AAP.”. Even a FCPS teacher who lived nearby said this about AAP. We had (erroneously) thought the high performance of FCPS schools was from quality of curriculum and quality of instruction, but actually the performance reflects widespread (i.e., county-wide, as we have learned from colleagues at work) after-school enrichment and tutoring.

[Anonymous]

I've been paying for tutors for my kids in the McLean pyramid ever since their early elementary days. It was a benefit for them to have 1:1 instruction with someone (who was NOT ME) who could help them with questions and clarify things.

I think teaching and school is so different than when any of us went to school - curriculums have changed, teaching styles have changed, the avalanche of testing within the school year (this has ramped up significantly in the last 3-4 years) and it seems like the looming threat of "getting into a good school" has fueled this hyper competitive approach and environment.

Unfortunately, I think it is very difficult for someone who doesn't have outside help (even if that help can/does come from a parent or adult that can help them) to keep up with kids that do. Think back to your educational experience - you had good teachers, bad teachers, teachers that you didn't like and teachers that didn't like you. It's all part of it - McLean or not.

If your kid needs extra help, there are a lot of resources out there for them. Free online tutoring through FCPS, Khan Academy, your own knowledge (e.g. reading their essays, helping them with math, etc) and just general support at home. If your kid is expressing that they need help, help them. Yes, it may be a teacher, but you can't pin that all on them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

FAPE requires Schools to accommodate all these issues , you can't pass it off somewhere else if parents are not allowed to get vouchers for private school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

FAPE requires Schools to accommodate all these issues , you can't pass it off somewhere else if parents are not allowed to get vouchers for private school

So untrue. FAPE covers #1, not the others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

FAPE requires Schools to accommodate all these issues , you can't pass it off somewhere else if parents are not allowed to get vouchers for private school

Why wouldnt FCPS be thrilled if more SPED parents hired tutors? FAPE is expensive!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

FAPE requires Schools to accommodate all these issues , you can't pass it off somewhere else if parents are not allowed to get vouchers for private school

Why wouldnt FCPS be thrilled if more SPED parents hired tutors? FAPE is expensive!

My brother and I have LDs, we had IEPs in Public School in the 1980's and 90's but also worked with tutors. It is rare that schools will be able to meet all of child's needs. FAPE is meant to provide kids with the ability to engage in their education but not to necessarily push a child to their full potential. Plenty of parents use outside tutors or supports in order to help their kids beyond what is available through the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how posters are bringing up other schools when the OP is only talking about McLean.

Because McLean isn’t special in this regard. It’s a government-funded school, with pros and cons in common with others.

But it is special. Better teachers and students/families gravitate there. So, indeed, it is somewhat surprising that the OP's child has such a weak teacher. But this is what you get with unions. Good luck getting rid of the bad teachers.

🤣🤣🤣 Unions? What a dolt you are!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how posters are bringing up other schools when the OP is only talking about McLean.

Because McLean isn’t special in this regard. It’s a government-funded school, with pros and cons in common with others.

But it is special. Better teachers and students/families gravitate there. So, indeed, it is somewhat surprising that the OP's child has such a weak teacher. But this is what you get with unions. Good luck getting rid of the bad teachers.

🤣🤣🤣 Unions? What a dolt you are!

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most kids have outside tutors at Mclean. It's expensive, but that's what you are going to have to do to compete.

if this is the case do teachers just grade the papers and rely on the tutors to teach? That's how it feels for some of these teachers however some don't even grade and submit he grades on time. Maybe they are overwhelmed and need more help?

This is the nature of the high income parents here in Mclean. The kids have tutors from early grades to give them a leg up. kids also have other enrichment camps and clinics and travel in the summer. All of this raises the bar at Mclean. Also most kids get study drugs. Get your kid a tutor and stop trying to get extra help from the teacher. You will probably need an SAT prep course too. Tutors, drugs, camps, prep. That's how Mclean rolls.

I would venture to guess OPs real problem is that she wants her child to be able to compete with the other high achieving kids at McLean but the kid just isn't cut out for HN or AP level in that particular course. And instead of actually acknowledging that, she's blaming the teacher. If your kid can't hack it in an HN or AP class without tutors or high levels of extra one-on-one support, it's too hard for them. And many FCPS parents need to learn that that is ok.

it’s horrifying to see how many students need tutoring at the elementary level. I’m not from this state, but this was not going on in other states that we lived in. The teaching is quite poor at the elementary level, too, in FCPS.

Do they? Do that many really need tutoring? I’m a recently retired teacher and I have tutored elementary students. Some really didn’t need tutored, but the moment they didn’t do well on one test or dropped to a “3” for a quarter, the parent(s) sought tutoring.

[Anonymous]

Have you considered Tutor.com?

According to FCPS FAQ on Are tutors qualified?

"Tutors are highly qualified. They go through a rigorous vetting process, including education verification and multiple background checks. They also have to pass a subject matter exam and complete an interview. Also, Tutor.com has a quality specialist team that reviews sessions to ensure their tutors are always providing the highest level of support."

What more could you ask for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm reaching out to share a concern and seek your insights. At McLean High School, known for its excellence, we've encountered a situation where our child's performance in two subjects did not improve until we hired private tutors, despite months of trying to work with the teachers. This drastic change from Ds and Fs to As has raised serious questions about the teaching effectiveness and the reliance on external tutoring for academic success.

It's troubling that success in these subjects seems contingent upon additional tutoring, which not all families can afford. This disparity begs the question: Why aren't teachers who consistently underperform held accountable, and how can we ensure all students have equal opportunities to succeed without external help?

I believe it's crucial for our community to discuss these issues and advocate for a fair, high-quality educational experience for all students.

Maybe your child is in classes that they shouldn't be in if they require tutoring and extra hours studying? Not every kid needs to be in AP and Honors classes for every subject. It sound slike your child is capable of doing the work but needs a lot of extra support.

If that was the case why would tutoring fix the situation and same for other peers? Does it seem like a teaching problem?

Most kids with Ds and Fs do not receive those grades because they are doing their best and just don’t understand, they are usually not focused in class, not completing work, etc. Hiring a tutor who sits there to help the student finish assignments raises his grade, but is not an indictment of the teacher. It might be, but you can’t know that from your student’s individual experience.

I can see several scenarios.

1) Child has learning issues and needs a tutor to work with the child to learn the material in the manner that the child learns. Not every Teacher is able to teach to all learning styles. A bright kid with LDs or ADHD could very well need a specific method of instruction that is not happening in the classroom. SPED instruction/time has been problematic due to the lack of Teachers making it hard to meet kids needs.

2) Child is in a class where other kids have been supplemented/enriched and are able to move at a faster pace. Teacher moves at that pace because it is matching with the regular pacing guide, I am thinking AP//IB/DE type classes. The tutor essentially helps the child match that pace.

3) Child is not making a real effort, doesn't care. The Tutor essentially forces the child to pay attention and do the work and learn the material. It is easy for the kid to blame the teacher.

FAPE requires Schools to accommodate all these issues , you can't pass it off somewhere else if parents are not allowed to get vouchers for private school

Why wouldnt FCPS be thrilled if more SPED parents hired tutors? FAPE is expensive!

My brother and I have LDs, we had IEPs in Public School in the 1980's and 90's but also worked with tutors. It is rare that schools will be able to meet all of child's needs. FAPE is meant to provide kids with the ability to engage in their education but not to necessarily push a child to their full potential. Plenty of parents use outside tutors or supports in order to help their kids beyond what is available through the school.

WRONG.

The Supreme Court case "Endrew F. v. Douglas County School District" really shook things up for what schools need to do for students with disabilities. Before this case, the rule of thumb from an older case, "Board of Education v. Rowley," was that schools just had to give students with disabilities some kind of benefit from their education, which could be pretty minimal.

But in 2017, Endrew F., a kid with autism, and his parents didn't think his school was doing enough. They argued that the school's plan for him wasn't really set up to help him make progress. The Supreme Court agreed and said that schools have to do more than just the bare minimum. They need to make sure their education plans are specially made for each student with disabilities, aiming to help them actually make progress that makes sense for them personally, not just any progress.

So, thanks to Endrew F.'s case, schools now have a higher bar to meet. They've got to really think about what each student needs and make sure they're helping them grow and learn in a way that's right for them. It's all about making sure students with disabilities get a fair shot at learning and improving, just like everyone else.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how posters are bringing up other schools when the OP is only talking about McLean.

Because McLean isn’t special in this regard. It’s a government-funded school, with pros and cons in common with others.

But it is special. Better teachers and students/families gravitate there. So, indeed, it is somewhat surprising that the OP's child has such a weak teacher. But this is what you get with unions. Good luck getting rid of the bad teachers.

🤣🤣🤣 Unions? What a dolt you are!

+1

https://www.fcft.org/

About FCFT
The Fairfax County Federation of Teachers are a union of non-administrative certified and classified Fairfax County Public Schools employees. FCFT members are teachers, counselors, social workers, librarians, teaching assistants, bus drivers, food service, clerical employees, psychologists, and other staff who work hard to make our students successful. We are standing together, united in our goal to improve both the working conditions for educators and the learning conditions for students.