MAP-M - what's on the test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Not sure what you are finding untrue, there. Was your DC at CSES? The post said it was the most often noted, but that

Anonymous wrote:Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult.

That would seem to match the experience you mention.

Your last sentence carries echoes of those who post, here, only to sow greater discontent with the fictitious and narrow "WPES" narrative. There are different conditions and treatment across MCPS schools, and some of that might be attributed to relative wealth. It's not exclusive to wealth, though, with differential implementations noted among many. Either way, that's a problem, but limiting the observation to economic difference is a red herring.

[Anonymous]

(PP continued...)

That would seem to match the experience you mention.

Your last sentence carries echoes of those who post, here, only to sow greater discontent with the fictitious and narrow "WPES" narrative. There are different conditions and treatment across MCPS schools, and some of that might be attributed to relative wealth. It's not exclusive to wealth, though, with differential implementations noted among many. Either way, that's a problem, but limiting the observation to economic difference is a red herring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Yes, this has been discussed many times and enrichment in math is mostly only available at the wealthy Potomac schools.

I don't have access to any real data, but all the 6th graders DC knows from TPMS this past year that are in Algebra+ came from WPES, where they had classes like AIM offered to entire groups of students in 4th or 5th grade. Sure, I guess there may be one or maybe two exceptions whose parents somehow bullied their school admin into allowing acceleration elsewhere but we haven't seen that so it is far less common if it exists at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Yes, this has been discussed many times and enrichment in math is mostly only available at the wealthy Potomac schools.

I don't have access to any real data, but all the 6th graders DC knows from TPMS this past year that are in Algebra+ came from WPES, where they had classes like AIM offered to entire groups of students in 4th or 5th grade. Sure, I guess there may be one or maybe two exceptions whose parents somehow bullied their school admin into allowing acceleration elsewhere but we haven't seen that so it is far less common if it exists at all.

Acceleration means access to more math which translates into higher MAP scores. This also enables easier access to elite programs like SMCS etc. It seems like there are some posters who want to downplay that opportunities for enrichment are more easily accessed at the wealthier school pyramids than elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Yes, this has been discussed many times and enrichment in math is mostly only available at the wealthy Potomac schools.

I don't have access to any real data, but all the 6th graders DC knows from TPMS this past year that are in Algebra+ came from WPES, where they had classes like AIM offered to entire groups of students in 4th or 5th grade. Sure, I guess there may be one or maybe two exceptions whose parents somehow bullied their school admin into allowing acceleration elsewhere but we haven't seen that so it is far less common if it exists at all.

Acceleration means access to more math which translates into higher MAP scores. This also enables easier access to elite programs like SMCS etc. It seems like there are some posters who want to downplay that opportunities for enrichment are more easily accessed at the wealthier school pyramids than elsewhere.

True, it"s easier to access if wealthy. Constraining the commentary to fictitious "WPES" leaves the picture incomplete, however, and sets anyone relying on that to advocate for change at a loss.

[Anonymous]

The MAP questions are similar to Khan Academy but harder. In general they test the concept but don’t go deep into details.

An example of an algebra question around a score of 220: a plane drops an object at constant speed from 3850 m to the ground in 5 hours. What is the height of the object after 3.5 hours?

The test is aiming to find the level where the student answers correctly 50% of the questions so there will be many questions that are either hard or beyond the knowledge of the student, for some this can be unnerving.

The report people mentioned in the thread is called Learning Continuum and lists concepts that are known at 75, 50, and 25%. It’s about 7 pages long and lists the topics by category, might be good for targeted practice, but it would depend on the teacher to implement it.

Sometimes people mention very high MAP scores in early grades, eg much higher than 250 in 5th grade. Without knowing what was tested, it’s hard to be sure of the equivalence across grades, which is why the Learning Continuum report is useful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Yes, this has been discussed many times and enrichment in math is mostly only available at the wealthy Potomac schools.

I don't have access to any real data, but all the 6th graders DC knows from TPMS this past year that are in Algebra+ came from WPES, where they had classes like AIM offered to entire groups of students in 4th or 5th grade. Sure, I guess there may be one or maybe two exceptions whose parents somehow bullied their school admin into allowing acceleration elsewhere but we haven't seen that so it is far less common if it exists at all.

Just stop with this ridiculous acronym. There is no such WPES and you (and only you) repeatedly using that acronym won’t make it a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:can someone explain how do your kids get to learn trigonometry in fifth grade? why are they doing it?

Parents who sign their children up for things like aops or RSM. There's a reason a bus takes kids to after school prep from the same ES that offers AIM to 5th graders. Their kids from that same school who are taking honor's geometry in 6th. Some families really value education and push their kids. I'm fine with it personally. In fact, why not let kids go at their own pace?

which elementary is this?

Btw we value education, and we value math, but trigonometry in middle school doesn't make sense for 99.9999% children. I've known several medalists from math olympiads and none of them did trig in elementary school. There are many, many difficult math problems to master before you move on to the next concept.

Cold Spring is the one most often mentioned here. (If you ignore the posts about fictitious schools intended to foster consternation.)

The school's administration apparently has facilitated ongoing family requests for this for years. Other elementaries may have interested students, but families can run into variable opposition from school admin; making this happen can be logistically difficult. Presumably, CSES has a large group of families requesting it to go along with the ingrained pattern. From some of what MCPS has said, I'd think it's more Algebra in 6th than Geometry, but it's possible some outliers among this outlier situation do that, and there are reported to be a handful of students getting that kind of fourth-tier extra acceleration in one-off situations outside of CSES.

All good if:

The pull came from student interest/well identified capability and not just family push, and

Families and students fully understood the downstream effects (e.g., super-advanced classes that would need to be taken in high school), and

The differential cost of providing the class was minimal/didn't interfere significantly with other programming needs of higher priority, and

MCPS acknowledged it openly instead of effectively hiding it, making sure that similar accommodation was available to students anywhere else in the system (as a PP noted, there really are kids who just love Math; I know an ES student who since at least 3rd grade has gravitated to Math texts -- the adult kind -- when they went to the library), and

MCPS didn't use criteria for magnet eligibility or selection that are directly affected by this exposure (less of a concern, of course, if there were to be equivalent awareness/access across the system).

That's actually not true. I remember when DC was 8 and scoring over 250 on their MAP-M, I asked our principal if there were any acceleration available and they said absolutely not. They were bored silly during compacted math. They only offer these options at the wealthy schools.

Yes, this has been discussed many times and enrichment in math is mostly only available at the wealthy Potomac schools.

I don't have access to any real data, but all the 6th graders DC knows from TPMS this past year that are in Algebra+ came from WPES, where they had classes like AIM offered to entire groups of students in 4th or 5th grade. Sure, I guess there may be one or maybe two exceptions whose parents somehow bullied their school admin into allowing acceleration elsewhere but we haven't seen that so it is far less common if it exists at all.

Acceleration means access to more math which translates into higher MAP scores. This also enables easier access to elite programs like SMCS etc. It seems like there are some posters who want to downplay that opportunities for enrichment are more easily accessed at the wealthier school pyramids than elsewhere.

We also noticed all DC magnet classmates who are a few years ahead in math came from Wealthy Potomac schools that provide this programming in ES.

[Anonymous]

What does WPES stand for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What does WPES stand for?

Wealty Potomac Elementary School. A mythical place where they offer Algebra in 5th grade to jumpstart the math curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids went to school abroad but will be going to MCPS in the Fall. What is on the MAP-M test? It is more quantitive reasoning or it covers some advanced math?

The oldest kid went to local school and followed their math curriculum. They have some algebra in 7th, and they had some geometry. But they haven't done (and won't do) quadratic equations and functions this year, for example.

To return to the original poster’s question. MAP is a 42 question test that adjusts the questions according to the responder’s patterns of answering previous questions. If your child does well on grade level math, they will see some challenge questions which will test the limits of their ability. Most questions are presented in a word problem context and all have multiple choice answers. There are no trick questions.

You can do the MAP tests ahead of time on your own through Homeschool Boss. MCPS accepts those scores and they can be helpful in doing placement for your students in their classes.

[Anonymous]

Thank you very much!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does WPES stand for?

Wealty Potomac Elementary School. A mythical place where they offer Algebra in 5th grade to jumpstart the math curriculum.

Not so mythical since there are 2-3 kids from WPES 6th graders currently at TPMS who had Algebra in 5th and are in DC's magnet geometry class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does WPES stand for?

Wealty Potomac Elementary School. A mythical place where they offer Algebra in 5th grade to jumpstart the math curriculum.

Some parents are vested in covering this up because they know it's unfair but want to keep the status quo.