Is yield protect real? Which colleges like to YP?

[Anonymous]

Cornell. if you are RD and they think you are getting in at other Ivies, you are going straight to the waitlist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Admissions is not about validating your kid. It’s about filling dorms and classrooms and balancing the operating budget.

Without yield management, most schools would be careening wildly from too many kids (housing crisis!!) to too few kids (financial crisis!!). Any school not bouncing from crisis to crisis is engaged in some form of responsible yield management.

You throw out "yield management" all the time here, but you can't be ignorant to the fact that "yield protection" is a specific practice of not accepting the top stats kids. Those are different things.

Not accepting top stats kids that the university believes WILL NOT ATTEND. In the end, the university needs to put Y students in the freshman class on campus in the fall. Not Y+500 or less than Y. So their goal is to accept students who will actually matriculate. If your top stat kid doesn't show demonstrated interest and convice them you will attend, you might not get accepted. Very simple.

DP. I think everyone here knows what YP is and why schools do it.. Just that a lot of people seem to have a mental block about accepting that it's done. BTW, YP and YM are the exact same thing. The PP you responded to is just inventing crap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the problem...people are claiming that my 1600 SAT kid that never visited College X, didn't show any particular knowledge or interest in College X in their application, etc. was rejected due to "Yield Protection".

That is not yield protection...that is a smart college knowing you have no interest.

Yield protection would be the 1600 SAT kid visiting the college, talking to the regional AO, showing lots of interest...but then say LSU just can't fathom you attending and rejects you because they feel like if Top 10 comes calling, that is where you will go.

What if the school doesn't care about Demonstrated Interest? And do you honestly think a kid that's already applied for 10+ schools and gotten into several (but may not have visited all of them) suddenly didn't write a good essay for this particular school?

BTW, the bolded part of your sentence is EXACTLY what Yield Protection is!

No s**t...that is why I called it yield protection.

There are plenty of instances where kids completely phone in the "Why university X question". They don't mention anything unique to the school, or a program, etc.

I mean, it is entirely possible that when a kid applies to 15 schools, they are only really interested in 8 of them, and those applications are much better than the remaining 7.

So you think that's a simpler explanation than, say, the school protecting yield? A lot of kids must be cahoots and coordinated submission of poor essays to Virginia Tech or any of the YP schools in that case..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools I guess try, but it still is hard. Clemson, JMU, Case Western, etc try to yield protect (maybe) yet their yields are all less than 20%…so maybe they don’t?

Case definately "yield protects". But it's challenging. Visit case, talk to students there. It's a running joke that it's everyone's 2nd/3rd/4th choice--it's not most kids top choice. 75-80% of the students (so it seems) top choices were in the T25/30==those kids would be attending one of those had they gotten admission. That means they had the resume to get in, but didn't win the lottery.
Case knows that--they are a "excellent backup in a location many are not thrilled about" for many high stats students. They know they have a yield protection issue. So yes, if they think your kid is not that interested and is using them as a backup, they will defer or WL. I don't view yield protection as a bad thing---it's up to your kid to convince a top school that your kid really wants to attend. Ultimately, the school wants to have X students enroll in the fall (not X-500 or X+500 but X or as close to it as possible, maybe go over a bit). They pull the you did EA, if you switch to ED2 here is what your merit/FA package would look like. Are you willing to switch? It's them saying "we want you, but only if you will commit to attend, otherwise we think you might get in elsewhere and go there"

Case really needs to invest in touting Cleveland. For someone who wants an urban environment (most students), Cleveland is a pleasant surprise. Love visiting there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH worked in admin at a mid-level university for years. They focused on accepting students who were likely to enroll. Applicants with stats beyond the typical profile were unlikely to be admitted unless there was strong demonstrated interest in a specific program or aspect of the school. Yes, they tracked visits , emails and phone calls. A high stat applicant needed to be very engaged to be accepted. If you just fired off a safety application the school sees that for what it is. Everyone has enrollment to manage.

The top tier colleges are a different ballgame.

Yes, regarding yield protection...I imagine that a truly earnest lower stat kid will put more work into tailoring the essays, the optional questions including "Why School X", and doing multiple demonstrated interest tasks, towards the desired school vs. a student with higher stats who has done less of that, looks likely to get in elsewhere, and comes from an unlikely to matriculate feeder school or geography. I'm sure there is tons of datamining math plus informal knowledge on this.

As a recruiter, I once offered an MBA summer internship to an "unlikely to take the offer because too good of a candidate" because he was the best-qualified AND he said he wanted to be in my company's geography because his mother was suffering from cancer AND he definitely wanted to stay in our metro for the summer. Guess what happened? Took a job 5 hours away in a different industry and occupational focus for the same pay to "diversify his resume". But said he'd like to stay in touch due to his post-grad plans to stay local. Ex-Goldman Sachs analyst. Bright, charming, and already an accomplished bullshit artist at a young age. Not sure even whether he had a sick mother after all.

I'm sure admissions officers can triage the b.s. just because of the volume of examples they see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the problem...people are claiming that my 1600 SAT kid that never visited College X, didn't show any particular knowledge or interest in College X in their application, etc. was rejected due to "Yield Protection".

That is not yield protection...that is a smart college knowing you have no interest.

Yield protection would be the 1600 SAT kid visiting the college, talking to the regional AO, showing lots of interest...but then say LSU just can't fathom you attending and rejects you because they feel like if Top 10 comes calling, that is where you will go.

What if the school doesn't care about Demonstrated Interest? And do you honestly think a kid that's already applied for 10+ schools and gotten into several (but may not have visited all of them) suddenly didn't write a good essay for this particular school?

BTW, the bolded part of your sentence is EXACTLY what Yield Protection is!

No s**t...that is why I called it yield protection.

There are plenty of instances where kids completely phone in the "Why university X question". They don't mention anything unique to the school, or a program, etc.

I mean, it is entirely possible that when a kid applies to 15 schools, they are only really interested in 8 of them, and those applications are much better than the remaining 7.

So you think that's a simpler explanation than, say, the school protecting yield? A lot of kids must be cahoots and coordinated submission of poor essays to Virginia Tech or any of the YP schools in that case..

Huh? What is a YP school?

Yes, there are a lot of people that really want to attend GA Tech or MIT or Michigan or other higher-ranked STEM schools that have the stats for those higher-ranked schools, that submit a worse application to VT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH worked in admin at a mid-level university for years. They focused on accepting students who were likely to enroll. Applicants with stats beyond the typical profile were unlikely to be admitted unless there was strong demonstrated interest in a specific program or aspect of the school. Yes, they tracked visits , emails and phone calls. A high stat applicant needed to be very engaged to be accepted. If you just fired off a safety application the school sees that for what it is. Everyone has enrollment to manage.

The top tier colleges are a different ballgame.

Glad to see someone admit to this.

It's crazy to me that this is a thing. My kid had high stats, somehow at Case Western they messed up their database so he had two accounts which I am pretty sure messed up the tracking of his interest. We all know this process is not "fair" but penalizing kids for being "too qualified" is a real low for me.

[Anonymous]

I think CWRU definitely yield protects. Last year my son was deferred from EA. He expressed further interest and was accepted RD with $30k merit. If he was really on the "bubble" for acceptance based on qualifications, not sure why they would turn around and offer a chunk of merit. He's at UMD now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The higher ranked schools don't track demonstrated interest. I am the person who posted about ND. Their motivation is twofold. They want to get a strong yield, but they also want a student population that gets ND. Hence the reason for the "Why Notre Dame" essay that is required each year.

this is such a ND response. you do know that every T100 school asks for a Why Us essay every year?

Nah, we just went through the process, and ND was the only one that was specifically "Why."

Bottom line, ND specifically wants a certain kind of student/family. They need to be all in on ND. It's a balance between strong stats and those who have ND at the tippy top of their list. It's easy to spot when you are multi generational legacy, hence the high level of legacy admits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH worked in admin at a mid-level university for years. They focused on accepting students who were likely to enroll. Applicants with stats beyond the typical profile were unlikely to be admitted unless there was strong demonstrated interest in a specific program or aspect of the school. Yes, they tracked visits , emails and phone calls. A high stat applicant needed to be very engaged to be accepted. If you just fired off a safety application the school sees that for what it is. Everyone has enrollment to manage.

The top tier colleges are a different ballgame.

Glad to see someone admit to this.

It's crazy to me that this is a thing. My kid had high stats, somehow at Case Western they messed up their database so he had two accounts which I am pretty sure messed up the tracking of his interest. We all know this process is not "fair" but penalizing kids for being "too qualified" is a real low for me.

What is the new low. I get you are pissed that I gather your kid actually was interested in Case and they messed up his accounts...but in general, schools want kids to show they want the school. What is the point of accepting a "too qualified" kid that has shown absolutely no interest in attending the school...and actually has no interest in attending the school...and actually won't attend the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well: Case had a moment with my kid of, “hey waitlister! You know, IF we admit you, we’ll give you a sh*tton of merit aid! Whaddaya think about THAT?”

Along with weekly checkins to stay on the list: had to check off one of (a) Case is my first choice! I will TOTALLY accept an offer! (b) I’m still, uh, deciding (c) F*ck off. Took kid a few weeks to go from (b) to (c), and checking that last box was a pleasure.

This is not yield protection. They offered admission and aid - reasonable of them and a good deal for you. That you had a f*ck off attitude about it reflects very poorly on you and your kid.

Agreed. People like ungrateful parent above contribute to the rat race of excessive applications and escalating need for fancier yield protection processes such as the one that inconvenienced them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Cornell. if you are RD and they think you are getting in at other Ivies, you are going straight to the waitlist.

t

Can you explain profiles of those YP and those not at Cornell?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH worked in admin at a mid-level university for years. They focused on accepting students who were likely to enroll. Applicants with stats beyond the typical profile were unlikely to be admitted unless there was strong demonstrated interest in a specific program or aspect of the school. Yes, they tracked visits , emails and phone calls. A high stat applicant needed to be very engaged to be accepted. If you just fired off a safety application the school sees that for what it is. Everyone has enrollment to manage.

The top tier colleges are a different ballgame.

Glad to see someone admit to this.

It's crazy to me that this is a thing. My kid had high stats, somehow at Case Western they messed up their database so he had two accounts which I am pretty sure messed up the tracking of his interest. We all know this process is not "fair" but penalizing kids for being "too qualified" is a real low for me.

What is the new low. I get you are pissed that I gather your kid actually was interested in Case and they messed up his accounts...but in general, schools want kids to show they want the school. What is the point of accepting a "too qualified" kid that has shown absolutely no interest in attending the school...and actually has no interest in attending the school...and actually won't attend the school.

How do they know if my kid wants to attend or not. He applied so he was definitely considering it.

[Anonymous]

my kid wrote a dozen Why Us essays for a dozen colleges. I also thought they all had that. All selective schools anyway

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Schools I guess try, but it still is hard. Clemson, JMU, Case Western, etc try to yield protect (maybe) yet their yields are all less than 20%…so maybe they don’t?

Case definately "yield protects". But it's challenging. Visit case, talk to students there. It's a running joke that it's everyone's 2nd/3rd/4th choice--it's not most kids top choice. 75-80% of the students (so it seems) top choices were in the T25/30==those kids would be attending one of those had they gotten admission. That means they had the resume to get in, but didn't win the lottery.
Case knows that--they are a "excellent backup in a location many are not thrilled about" for many high stats students. They know they have a yield protection issue. So yes, if they think your kid is not that interested and is using them as a backup, they will defer or WL. I don't view yield protection as a bad thing---it's up to your kid to convince a top school that your kid really wants to attend. Ultimately, the school wants to have X students enroll in the fall (not X-500 or X+500 but X or as close to it as possible, maybe go over a bit). They pull the you did EA, if you switch to ED2 here is what your merit/FA package would look like. Are you willing to switch? It's them saying "we want you, but only if you will commit to attend, otherwise we think you might get in elsewhere and go there"

Case really needs to invest in touting Cleveland. For someone who wants an urban environment (most students), Cleveland is a pleasant surprise. Love visiting there.

We loved it too--were pleasantly surprised. But fact will always remain, it's a rust belt midwest city and many kids would rather attend in other geographic locations or attend Higher ranked schools. So it will likely always have a yield problem.