MAP scores.. is this weird?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:5th grade DC teacher here. I don't know what compact math is, but those are very big jumps in scores. In my general ed class, I have 5th graders scoring between 180 and 250. A 220 is considered average achievement for 5th grade.

MCPS provides one year of Math acceleration to some students via compacting the 4th-, 5th- and 6th-grade curricula into two years, Math 4/5 in 4th and Math 5/6 in 6th. These used to be called "Compacted Math" under the prior curriculum, and the moniker has stuck around.

220 would match the 64th percentile for Winter MAP-M for 5th graders on the NWEA 2020 norms, which were curated from three earlier years of nationwide data. That doesn't mean it isn't
average for DC/your school/your class, of course.

You sound informed, thanks! Could you link to where you find this info?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:5th grade DC teacher here. I don't know what compact math is, but those are very big jumps in scores. In my general ed class, I have 5th graders scoring between 180 and 250. A 220 is considered average achievement for 5th grade.

MCPS provides one year of Math acceleration to some students via compacting the 4th-, 5th- and 6th-grade curricula into two years, Math 4/5 in 4th and Math 5/6 in 6th. These used to be called "Compacted Math" under the prior curriculum, and the moniker has stuck around.

220 would match the 64th percentile for Winter MAP-M for 5th graders on the NWEA 2020 norms, which were curated from three earlier years of nationwide data. That doesn't mean it isn't
average for DC/your school/your class, of course.

You sound informed, thanks! Could you link to where you find this info?

https://sites.google.com/view/nweapercentilecalculator

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the two past posters suggesting something nefarious:

Try not to overstate the situation. The OP spoke of one going from 201 to 234 and another from 211 to 238. That's 55th percentile to 95th and 79th to 98th. It "seemed" that the whole class had big jumps.

Another poster thought that something around 230 wouldn't be unusual for kids in compacted 4/5 for winter.

Maybe the whole class is full of capable students who were taught better this year vs. last. It's not as though MAP is a test of ability such that exposure wouldn't change it much. The opposite is the case.

Or maybe it could be something fishy, like a teacher giving out answers or admin finding some way to alter scores on the back end, but starting that with the 240s hyperbole doesn't help that suggestion gain traction.

Between the two, Occam's razor and all...

OP here-
Today my DC confirmed a bunch of more kids scoring in the high 240’s up from 204 or so from fall. This is definitely unusual.

Even if you are taught better which is not the case here you would still not see such big jumps in scores. This reeks of something fishy. Admin or someone changing the scores somehow or something. I can’t imagine the entire class is now in the high 90th percentile. Just seems implausible.

That seems weird. Kids could be lying or confused on actual numbers. I don’t think a kid with a 204 would even be in compacted math.

OP here- kids are not lying about this and its coming from teacher who keeps commenting with ‘Wow’, ‘ oh my lord’, ‘thats a big jump from 201 to 238’.

Complain to the principal because that behavior is completely unacceptable. Children's scores are private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's an average MAP-M score for compacted Math in winter of 5th grade?

It varies a lot based on schools and how much outside enrichment/exposure to topics that children have received. In my 5th grade class at a Title 1 school, the average is around 235. Within the class, there are a couple of students who score as low as the low 220's (which very much matches who should absolutely not be in the class) up to my highest student scoring 250.

I know from people on this site that this is not comprable to kids in the higher SES schools, but I'm quite proud of my students. They don't get extra support at home and work so hard and their scores reflect that!

Your average is 235 at a Title 1? Something isnt adding up here for sure.

Do you think that is high or low?

In a Compacted 5-6 class, for kids who are actually ready for 5-6 and also not doing Math 8 Prealgebra at home, that's a normal average.

An average (nearly drowning) 5th grader scores 218, so CM kids should be scoring 1-2 years higher due to compaction (exposure) and to generally being better more able math students than average.

Bright kids who are studying enrichment at home / AOPS / RSM are getting up to 255 for "grade level enriched", or higher if they are already long been on an accelerated track and are now doing prealgebra or algebra(!) classes at home.

I work at a focus school— last years bright 5th graders got 218-227 on the MAP in winter. They ended up getting accepted to TPMS magnet program FOR math,so I think the previous teacher bragging about her title one kids averaging in the 240s is just bogus.

They are likely having a hard time in TPMS. 230 is generally the minimum for readiness for prealgebra, and TPMS magnet prealgebra (MIM) is more challenging than regular prealgebra.

[Anonymous]

OP is this Piney Branch?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's an average MAP-M score for compacted Math in winter of 5th grade?

It varies a lot based on schools and how much outside enrichment/exposure to topics that children have received. In my 5th grade class at a Title 1 school, the average is around 235. Within the class, there are a couple of students who score as low as the low 220's (which very much matches who should absolutely not be in the class) up to my highest student scoring 250.

I know from people on this site that this is not comprable to kids in the higher SES schools, but I'm quite proud of my students. They don't get extra support at home and work so hard and their scores reflect that!

Your average is 235 at a Title 1? Something isnt adding up here for sure.

Do you think that is high or low?

In a Compacted 5-6 class, for kids who are actually ready for 5-6 and also not doing Math 8 Prealgebra at home, that's a normal average.

An average (nearly drowning) 5th grader scores 218, so CM kids should be scoring 1-2 years higher due to compaction (exposure) and to generally being better more able math students than average.

Bright kids who are studying enrichment at home / AOPS / RSM are getting up to 255 for "grade level enriched", or higher if they are already long been on an accelerated track and are now doing prealgebra or algebra(!) classes at home.

I work at a focus school— last years bright 5th graders got 218-227 on the MAP in winter. They ended up getting accepted to TPMS magnet program FOR math,so I think the previous teacher bragging about her title one kids averaging in the 240s is just bogus.

They are likely having a hard time in TPMS. 230 is generally the minimum for readiness for prealgebra, and TPMS magnet prealgebra (MIM) is more challenging than regular prealgebra.

They aren't. I'm friends with the math department because I used to be at TPMS. The point is, its ridiculous to come on here and claim untruths like that because parents who don't know these things will eat it up and believe it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the two past posters suggesting something nefarious:

Try not to overstate the situation. The OP spoke of one going from 201 to 234 and another from 211 to 238. That's 55th percentile to 95th and 79th to 98th. It "seemed" that the whole class had big jumps.

Another poster thought that something around 230 wouldn't be unusual for kids in compacted 4/5 for winter.

Maybe the whole class is full of capable students who were taught better this year vs. last. It's not as though MAP is a test of ability such that exposure wouldn't change it much. The opposite is the case.

Or maybe it could be something fishy, like a teacher giving out answers or admin finding some way to alter scores on the back end, but starting that with the 240s hyperbole doesn't help that suggestion gain traction.

Between the two, Occam's razor and all...

OP here-
Today my DC confirmed a bunch of more kids scoring in the high 240’s up from 204 or so from fall. This is definitely unusual.

Even if you are taught better which is not the case here you would still not see such big jumps in scores. This reeks of something fishy. Admin or someone changing the scores somehow or something. I can’t imagine the entire class is now in the high 90th percentile. Just seems implausible.

That seems weird. Kids could be lying or confused on actual numbers. I don’t think a kid with a 204 would even be in compacted math.

OP here- kids are not lying about this and its coming from teacher who keeps commenting with ‘Wow’, ‘ oh my lord’, ‘thats a big jump from 201 to 238’.

Complain to the principal because that behavior is completely unacceptable. Children's scores are private.

Compacted math groups used MAP scores as contests all the time. Kids have old scores and targets for new scores posted in class rooms. They all tell each other their scores anyway. This isn't the LSAT.

[Anonymous]

Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

OP here. Finally an answer that is helpful. I have been thinking of contacting the teacher about this as well and have been wondering if this MAP was different in some way. My DC told me that it was mostly on fractions and decimals. Didn’t see other topics as much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

OP here. Finally an answer that is helpful. I have been thinking of contacting the teacher about this as well and have been wondering if this MAP was different in some way. My DC told me that it was mostly on fractions and decimals. Didn’t see other topics as much.

The national numbers don't show anything like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's an average MAP-M score for compacted Math in winter of 5th grade?

It varies a lot based on schools and how much outside enrichment/exposure to topics that children have received. In my 5th grade class at a Title 1 school, the average is around 235. Within the class, there are a couple of students who score as low as the low 220's (which very much matches who should absolutely not be in the class) up to my highest student scoring 250.

I know from people on this site that this is not comprable to kids in the higher SES schools, but I'm quite proud of my students. They don't get extra support at home and work so hard and their scores reflect that!

Your average is 235 at a Title 1? Something isnt adding up here for sure.

Do you think that is high or low?

In a Compacted 5-6 class, for kids who are actually ready for 5-6 and also not doing Math 8 Prealgebra at home, that's a normal average.

An average (nearly drowning) 5th grader scores 218, so CM kids should be scoring 1-2 years higher due to compaction (exposure) and to generally being better more able math students than average.

Bright kids who are studying enrichment at home / AOPS / RSM are getting up to 255 for "grade level enriched", or higher if they are already long been on an accelerated track and are now doing prealgebra or algebra(!) classes at home.

I work at a focus school— last years bright 5th graders got 218-227 on the MAP in winter. They ended up getting accepted to TPMS magnet program FOR math,so I think the previous teacher bragging about her title one kids averaging in the 240s is just bogus.

They are likely having a hard time in TPMS. 230 is generally the minimum for readiness for prealgebra, and TPMS magnet prealgebra (MIM) is more challenging than regular prealgebra.

They aren't. I'm friends with the math department because I used to be at TPMS. The point is, its ridiculous to come on here and claim untruths like that because parents who don't know these things will eat it up and believe it.

Your friends are different from my friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

OP here. Finally an answer that is helpful. I have been thinking of contacting the teacher about this as well and have been wondering if this MAP was different in some way. My DC told me that it was mostly on fractions and decimals. Didn’t see other topics as much.

The national numbers don't show anything like that.

I remember my kids' scores going up 25-30 points once I taught them decimals and fractions in 3rd grade. This was unusual. In fact, the teacher said they had never seen anything like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the two past posters suggesting something nefarious:

Try not to overstate the situation. The OP spoke of one going from 201 to 234 and another from 211 to 238. That's 55th percentile to 95th and 79th to 98th. It "seemed" that the whole class had big jumps.

Another poster thought that something around 230 wouldn't be unusual for kids in compacted 4/5 for winter.

Maybe the whole class is full of capable students who were taught better this year vs. last. It's not as though MAP is a test of ability such that exposure wouldn't change it much. The opposite is the case.

Or maybe it could be something fishy, like a teacher giving out answers or admin finding some way to alter scores on the back end, but starting that with the 240s hyperbole doesn't help that suggestion gain traction.

Between the two, Occam's razor and all...

OP here-
Today my DC confirmed a bunch of more kids scoring in the high 240’s up from 204 or so from fall. This is definitely unusual.

Even if you are taught better which is not the case here you would still not see such big jumps in scores. This reeks of something fishy. Admin or someone changing the scores somehow or something. I can’t imagine the entire class is now in the high 90th percentile. Just seems implausible.

That seems weird. Kids could be lying or confused on actual numbers. I don’t think a kid with a 204 would even be in compacted math.

OP here- kids are not lying about this and its coming from teacher who keeps commenting with ‘Wow’, ‘ oh my lord’, ‘thats a big jump from 201 to 238’.

Complain to the principal because that behavior is completely unacceptable. Children's scores are private.

Compacted math groups used MAP scores as contests all the time. Kids have old scores and targets for new scores posted in class rooms. They all tell each other their scores anyway. This isn't the LSAT.

FERPA doesn't care about Compacted Math. This is ridiculous behavior by teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

There is no jump in curriculum, and the test hadn't changed. It may be the student is maturing and taking the test more seriously.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year in 5th my kid jumped from 239 in Fall to 271 in winter. I was shocked and asked the teacher who told me there had been other large jumps too (though did also say this was an outlier).

I figured there was a bug jump in the curriculum as kid wasn’t doing any math outside of school. (Tbh, I’ve also wondered if MAP has just got easier).

There is no jump in curriculum, and the test hadn't changed. It may be the student is maturing and taking the test more seriously.

Yes when they’re young they finish the test within 30 minutes and then forget about it. Now they have to peer pressure to compare scores (some kids would brag about their scores) and some of them take multiple days to finish the map test.