What changed?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are also willing to send their kid anywhere in the country and pay the airfare. My father would never have paid for me or my siblings to attend Wisconsin (no offense Wisconsin).

I agree with this. Even in the 90s, most people in my UMC NYC suburb went to schools within an couple hours of home (granted, we had easy access to Boston, DC, and Phili). There were a couple people who went to school further away (I was one), but everyone was in the northeast or mid-Atlantic. People look much further afield these days.

Generally, I think people are more people are brand conscious now in many areas of their lives, too.

We toured Virginia Tech a few months ago and one of the other parents in the group (he was a local, christiansburg or somewhere closeby) had another daughter at Radford so he dropped off to go visit her. He then explained that she attended JMU as a freshman and moved to Radford to be closer to family. Even 2 hours is too far for some people!

[Anonymous]

1380 used to get you into an ivy school. The colleges know the test has changed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fear and demographics are the mix.

Demographics mean more students chasing similar seat totals at the top 100 or so. Add TO and DEI into the mix and that is a big reason.

Fear is bigger though. Fear is what makes families buy into the top 30, top 50 BS - which in turn makes them push for higher grades/scores, more tutors, more everything - especially more applications.

One of the greatest cons in society is that a certain type or tier of college is needed to “make it”. It’s simply not true as studies have shown.

100% Just take a look at your co-workers, and the executives/uppermanagement at your company. Odds are 75%+ did NOT attend an "elite" university. Odds are you work side by side with some who attended an elite U and yet they are in the same position as you with approximately similar years of experience.
Fact is those who are striving for a T25 and have the resume most likely also have the drive and determination and will achieve high success at State U ranked 150 just as much as if they attend a T25. It's the person and the work they put in, not the university for 99% of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

Is "tippy-top" a thing? Or is it one person using it over and over and over and over on this forum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

Because they become "safeties"/"targets" for the tippy-top students. Go visit Case western---80% of those attending applied to several T25 schools and didn't get in. They "settled" for Case--Case is not the top choice of most who matriculate. Case is a great school, my kid almost attended. But it is definately filled with T25 wannabes who did have the resume for it. My kid is at another school that is similar. Every single one of their friends (10+, including my kid) applied to several T25s, all were WL and/or Fall Sophomore year start at at least 1 in the T25---all have the resume for T25 but didn't win the lottery. Instead they won their own lottery by where they landed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1380 used to get you into an ivy school. The colleges know the test has changed

It has been revamped...the 1995 revamp was major. A pre1995 score of 1380 would be a~1500 today. Add in that more people test prep now, many intensive test prep and that explains a lot

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

Because they become "safeties"/"targets" for the tippy-top students. Go visit Case western---80% of those attending applied to several T25 schools and didn't get in. They "settled" for Case--Case is not the top choice of most who matriculate. Case is a great school, my kid almost attended. But it is definately filled with T25 wannabes who did have the resume for it. My kid is at another school that is similar. Every single one of their friends (10+, including my kid) applied to several T25s, all were WL and/or Fall Sophomore year start at at least 1 in the T25---all have the resume for T25 but didn't win the lottery. Instead they won their own lottery by where they landed.

I get that with Case...but what is the logic on Clemson? SC residents that really want Top 25, but they all apply to Clemson as in-state?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

Because they become "safeties"/"targets" for the tippy-top students. Go visit Case western---80% of those attending applied to several T25 schools and didn't get in. They "settled" for Case--Case is not the top choice of most who matriculate. Case is a great school, my kid almost attended. But it is definately filled with T25 wannabes who did have the resume for it. My kid is at another school that is similar. Every single one of their friends (10+, including my kid) applied to several T25s, all were WL and/or Fall Sophomore year start at at least 1 in the T25---all have the resume for T25 but didn't win the lottery. Instead they won their own lottery by where they landed.

I get that with Case...but what is the logic on Clemson? SC residents that really want Top 25, but they all apply to Clemson as in-state?

University of South Carolina honors is more appealing to some instate residents and college of Charleston for kids who prefer urban. OOS, Clemson is in a giant pile with other large southern public schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

JMU is a safety school. Low yields have always been a thing for safeties, especially if they aren't yield protecting

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Admissions changed so much since past generations applied to U.S. colleges. What changed?

Another thread recently had this posted, which caught my attention:

Except those 1500 SATs would’ve been more like 1380s 25 years ago. And GPAs? Please.

Exactly. I think people sell themselves short. Plus back in the day, kids were not micromanaged like hot house flowers by their parents.

More UMC strivers/people wanting to keep their kids UMC in the face of a growing wealth gap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The increase in seats may be true, but it's not enough to offset the thousands of applications schools are getting each year. Many schools continue to report historic levels of applications. Look for example at JMU's application numbers after joining the Common App in 2022 - from JMU's Feb 2023 press release - JMU received a total of 24,156 applicants this year, setting a 30% increase in Early Action applicants within the last academic year and an 83% increase within the last two years. This is in comparison to the 2021 pool of 18,533 applicants and the 2020 pool of 13,190 applicants.

Yeah, that doesn't really work out. JMU's acceptance rate in 1987 was only 36%. JMU's acceptance rate today is 74%.

Apr 30, 1987 — Last year, 11,080 high school seniors applied to JMU, and 4,018 were accepted, resulting in a 36 percent acceptance rate.

JMU Admitted Freshmen (2022-23)
Applications: 37,055
Applicants accepted: 27,238 (73.5%)
SAT mid-50% range*:1190-1350
ACT mid-50% range*: 25-30

$’

JMU has about 5000 students per year in the undergrad. So they have to admit more than 27000 to yield 5000? This is part of the problem with the arms race of people applying to so many schools. on the admission side, it’s a crapshoot for the students. then on the yield side it’s a crapshoot for the colleges. No wonder ED is becoming more and more popular.

Correct, yields are abysmal at many, many schools. Look at Case Western...sub-20% yield. Clemson, 60,000 applied, 22,879 accepted and 4,494 enrolled. 19.6% yield.

It is like this at nearly every school outside of the tippy-top.

Because they become "safeties"/"targets" for the tippy-top students. Go visit Case western---80% of those attending applied to several T25 schools and didn't get in. They "settled" for Case--Case is not the top choice of most who matriculate. Case is a great school, my kid almost attended. But it is definately filled with T25 wannabes who did have the resume for it. My kid is at another school that is similar. Every single one of their friends (10+, including my kid) applied to several T25s, all were WL and/or Fall Sophomore year start at at least 1 in the T25---all have the resume for T25 but didn't win the lottery. Instead they won their own lottery by where they landed.

I get that with Case...but what is the logic on Clemson? SC residents that really want Top 25, but they all apply to Clemson as in-state?

University of South Carolina honors is more appealing to some instate residents and college of Charleston for kids who prefer urban. OOS, Clemson is in a giant pile with other large southern public schools

That doesn't really explain anything. University of South Carolina yield is 23% and College of Charleston yield is 15.9%.

Are you going to claim their yield rates are so low because kids are picking Clemson? Wait...we are now in a circular logic clusterf**k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fear and demographics are the mix.

Demographics mean more students chasing similar seat totals at the top 100 or so. Add TO and DEI into the mix and that is a big reason.

Fear is bigger though. Fear is what makes families buy into the top 30, top 50 BS - which in turn makes them push for higher grades/scores, more tutors, more everything - especially more applications.

One of the greatest cons in society is that a certain type or tier of college is needed to “make it”. It’s simply not true as studies have shown.

100% Just take a look at your co-workers, and the executives/uppermanagement at your company. Odds are 75%+ did NOT attend an "elite" university. Odds are you work side by side with some who attended an elite U and yet they are in the same position as you with approximately similar years of experience.
Fact is those who are striving for a T25 and have the resume most likely also have the drive and determination and will achieve high success at State U ranked 150 just as much as if they attend a T25. It's the person and the work they put in, not the university for 99% of it.

I'm a Fed GS-14 with undergrad and masters from a VA public university. My entering co-worker class (back in 1995) were all 10 years older than me and most were PhDs from Ivies and private universities. We are all in the same place. Actually, I'm ahead because I started my Fed career at 25 (now 54) and they started later and have longer until retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Fear and demographics are the mix.

Demographics mean more students chasing similar seat totals at the top 100 or so. Add TO and DEI into the mix and that is a big reason.

Fear is bigger though. Fear is what makes families buy into the top 30, top 50 BS - which in turn makes them push for higher grades/scores, more tutors, more everything - especially more applications.

One of the greatest cons in society is that a certain type or tier of college is needed to “make it”. It’s simply not true as studies have shown.

100% Just take a look at your co-workers, and the executives/uppermanagement at your company. Odds are 75%+ did NOT attend an "elite" university. Odds are you work side by side with some who attended an elite U and yet they are in the same position as you with approximately similar years of experience.
Fact is those who are striving for a T25 and have the resume most likely also have the drive and determination and will achieve high success at State U ranked 150 just as much as if they attend a T25. It's the person and the work they put in, not the university for 99% of it.

I'm a Fed GS-14 with undergrad and masters from a VA public university. My entering co-worker class (back in 1995) were all 10 years older than me and most were PhDs from Ivies and private universities. We are all in the same place. Actually, I'm ahead because I started my Fed career at 25 (now 54) and they started later and have longer until retirement.

I don't understand your point. This would imply that you were the lone standout, but you had a much higher chance of getting the position if you came from an Ivy or top private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Parents are also willing to send their kid anywhere in the country and pay the airfare. My father would never have paid for me or my siblings to attend Wisconsin (no offense Wisconsin).

I agree with this. Even in the 90s, most people in my UMC NYC suburb went to schools within an couple hours of home (granted, we had easy access to Boston, DC, and Phili). There were a couple people who went to school further away (I was one), but everyone was in the northeast or mid-Atlantic. People look much further afield these days.

Generally, I think people are more people are brand conscious now in many areas of their lives, too.

Ehhh, I graduated from a DC private in '91 and knew classmates that went to Colorado, California, Washington state, Georgia and Alabama