Algebra 1 as Sixth Grader?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, she’s a 11 year old 9th grader, at an age when most kids are in 5th grade.

I don’t necessarily agree that you need to do competition math to prove one’s worth. A lot of these kids seem to be very social, thrive with the spotlight on them and generally have more than one area of interest. Competition math is opposite, a concentrated focus in one narrow area.

College coursework credit is a real math credential for most. Maybe her interest and strength is not in going super deep in math on route to math Olympiad, which in my view is also an artificial goal and to a degree a waste of time.

These are different paths and you can endlessly argue the advantages of one over the other. Being socially savvy and knowing how to sell yourself is a good skill to have even if it seems somewhat cringy at this age.

She definite has a lot of support, I’m really curious how these kids do later in life on their own.

Most 11 year olds are in 6th grade. Her bio says that she was skipped ahead 3 years.

I agree that kids don't need to do competition math to prove that they belong in calculus at age 12. Doing well in the courses is proof enough. The kids who are at or close to a JMO level would also certainly be capable of calculus at age 12, if only FCPS didn't make them waste so many years learning nothing.

Her school system supported her and let her advance into classes appropriate for her intelligence and motivational levels. Meanwhile, OP's kid was supposed to take Algebra I in 6th at her previous school, but was effectively barred from taking it and forced to waste a year of her time in FCPS. A school system that actually supports advanced kids would have either asked for documentation and then honored the math placement, or they would have administered their own placement test. Kudos to Gainesville, and shame on FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, she’s a 11 year old 9th grader, at an age when most kids are in 5th grade.

I don’t necessarily agree that you need to do competition math to prove one’s worth. A lot of these kids seem to be very social, thrive with the spotlight on them and generally have more than one area of interest. Competition math is opposite, a concentrated focus in one narrow area.

College coursework credit is a real math credential for most. Maybe her interest and strength is not in going super deep in math on route to math Olympiad, which in my view is also an artificial goal and to a degree a waste of time.

These are different paths and you can endlessly argue the advantages of one over the other. Being socially savvy and knowing how to sell yourself is a good skill to have even if it seems somewhat cringy at this age.

She definite has a lot of support, I’m really curious how these kids do later in life on their own.

Most 11 year olds are in 6th grade. Her bio says that she was skipped ahead 3 years.

I agree that kids don't need to do competition math to prove that they belong in calculus at age 12. Doing well in the courses is proof enough. The kids who are at or close to a JMO level would also certainly be capable of calculus at age 12, if only FCPS didn't make them waste so many years learning nothing.

Her school system supported her and let her advance into classes appropriate for her intelligence and motivational levels. Meanwhile, OP's kid was supposed to take Algebra I in 6th at her previous school, but was effectively barred from taking it and forced to waste a year of her time in FCPS. A school system that actually supports advanced kids would have either asked for documentation and then honored the math placement, or they would have administered their own placement test. Kudos to Gainesville, and shame on FCPS.

One of the links said 6 years skipped in math, which would be typical of Algebra 2 in 8th.

Most likely the support and skipping is a combination of parent persistence, and willingness to accommodate from the principal and district. The situation is likely so rare that they haven’t encountered anything like this before.

While I agree with getting education at the student level, I don’t really see the point of skipping full grades. In a way it’s a guarantee that the student will get a more challenging workload, but there’s a real risk of not being able to keep up and ending up in the muddled middle, albeit while still being the youngest student in the class.

There’s plenty of data that going early to college does not always result in a good outcome, on the contrary there’s a lot of developmental, social and emotional stress that is often overlooked compared to purely academic capability.

The years someone has is middle and high school to dedicate to learning is unlike anything you’ll encounter in life, so I don’t really see the rush, why not just take the time and find an interest and just go deep and wide to wherever it takes you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah. PP implied that FCPS is so proactive in meeting the needs of gifted kids that they identified a 5th grader, plucked her out of her 5th grade AAP classroom, and personally invited her to TJ. There was the additional implication that if FCPS isn't letting your kid take Algebra in 6th, it's because your kid isn't qualified. After all, look at how well they're supporting this kid who is truly gifted!

The reality is that a completely different school system let the kid skip multiple grades over many years, and she was admitted as an 8th grade applicant using the exact same process as every other admitted 8th grader. FCPS would never allow for multiple years of grade skipping, and they're extremely strict with math skipping.

Yeah, that is because too many parents would try to do it. They have to be strict. We moved to a title 1 public school when my kids entered middle school. The school only offers up to Alg I. One child was able to enter a special gifted math program outside of the school. The other was still too young, but I had him take alg I at the school in 6th simply by asking. All I did was call the counselor and say this is the level his previous teacher advised he take. That was that. They didn't even ask for test scores, grades, or do their own evaluation. The following yr he started the other math program.

Did the counselor (or the teacher who recommended 6th grade algebra) not wonder what he would do in 7th grade? Also, what was the name of the gifted program?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, she’s a 11 year old 9th grader, at an age when most kids are in 5th grade.

I don’t necessarily agree that you need to do competition math to prove one’s worth. A lot of these kids seem to be very social, thrive with the spotlight on them and generally have more than one area of interest. Competition math is opposite, a concentrated focus in one narrow area.

College coursework credit is a real math credential for most. Maybe her interest and strength is not in going super deep in math on route to math Olympiad, which in my view is also an artificial goal and to a degree a waste of time.

These are different paths and you can endlessly argue the advantages of one over the other. Being socially savvy and knowing how to sell yourself is a good skill to have even if it seems somewhat cringy at this age.

She definite has a lot of support, I’m really curious how these kids do later in life on their own.

Most 11 year olds are in 6th grade. Her bio says that she was skipped ahead 3 years.

I agree that kids don't need to do competition math to prove that they belong in calculus at age 12. Doing well in the courses is proof enough. The kids who are at or close to a JMO level would also certainly be capable of calculus at age 12, if only FCPS didn't make them waste so many years learning nothing.

Her school system supported her and let her advance into classes appropriate for her intelligence and motivational levels. Meanwhile, OP's kid was supposed to take Algebra I in 6th at her previous school, but was effectively barred from taking it and forced to waste a year of her time in FCPS. A school system that actually supports advanced kids would have either asked for documentation and then honored the math placement, or they would have administered their own placement test. Kudos to Gainesville, and shame on FCPS.

One of the links said 6 years skipped in math, which would be typical of Algebra 2 in 8th.

Most likely the support and skipping is a combination of parent persistence, and willingness to accommodate from the principal and district. The situation is likely so rare that they haven’t encountered anything like this before.

While I agree with getting education at the student level, I don’t really see the point of skipping full grades. In a way it’s a guarantee that the student will get a more challenging workload, but there’s a real risk of not being able to keep up and ending up in the muddled middle, albeit while still being the youngest student in the class.

There’s plenty of data that going early to college does not always result in a good outcome, on the contrary there’s a lot of developmental, social and emotional stress that is often overlooked compared to purely academic capability.

The years someone has is middle and high school to dedicate to learning is unlike anything you’ll encounter in life, so I don’t really see the rush, why not just take the time and find an interest and just go deep and wide to wherever it takes you.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355332/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277710454_Effects_of_Academic_Acceleration_on_the_Social_and_Emotional_Lives_of_Gifted_Students
https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/the-effects-of-acceleration-on-the-social-and-emotional-development-of-gifted-students/

The science is strongly in favor of acceleration for gifted students - in fact, it is the one evidence-based intervention for gifted kids with the strongest effect and most robust supporting research.

Her college years are likely to be similar to the middle and high school years of many others in terms of having lots of free time and no responsibilities, but will also be much, much more intellectually fulfilling and psychologically productive.

An accelerated student who's starting to struggle can always do what other struggling students do - use the resources provided by the school to struggling students. Even if they repeat a grade, they'll end up no worse off than they would have if they hadn't accelerated.

[Anonymous]

Yes. Your DC has chance to get Algebra 1 H in 6 grade.
First your DC must be recognized and recommended by teacher and principal.
Second your child must qualify some requirements: perfect SOLs in 3,4,5 grades; 99 percentile CogAT-Quantitative.
Then your DC needs to pass others 2 math tests, and finally pass IAAT test.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. Your DC has chance to get Algebra 1 H in 6 grade.
First your DC must be recognized and recommended by teacher and principal.
Second your child must qualify some requirements: perfect SOLs in 3,4,5 grades; 99 percentile CogAT-Quantitative.
Then your DC needs to pass others 2 math tests, and finally pass IAAT test.

But OP's kid apparently doesn't have the chance, despite being recommended to take Algebra in 6th in their previous school district. A lot of other kids who would be perfectly qualified don't have the chance, since their principal doesn't allow any 5th graders to jump up to 6th grade math. Other kids don't have the chance because they got one problem wrong in a test that they took as 7 year olds. CogAT Q needs to be 145, which means 0 problems wrong for most kids, and maybe 1 problem wrong for kids on the younger side for their grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355332/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277710454_Effects_of_Academic_Acceleration_on_the_Social_and_Emotional_Lives_of_Gifted_Students
https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/the-effects-of-acceleration-on-the-social-and-emotional-development-of-gifted-students/

The science is strongly in favor of acceleration for gifted students - in fact, it is the one evidence-based intervention for gifted kids with the strongest effect and most robust supporting research.

Her college years are likely to be similar to the middle and high school years of many others in terms of having lots of free time and no responsibilities, but will also be much, much more intellectually fulfilling and psychologically productive.

An accelerated student who's starting to struggle can always do what other struggling students do - use the resources provided by the school to struggling students. Even if they repeat a grade, they'll end up no worse off than they would have if they hadn't accelerated.

This. 100%. Acceleration may or may not be the best course for any particular gifted student, but it should be an option on the table that is fully considered. In FCPS, it is not an option on the table. Just as an example, my kid was tested at the beginning of 1st grade by the school math resource teacher. She concluded that my kid knew 100% of the content through 4th grade math and should be skipped ahead 2 or 3 grade levels in math. They didn't even test 5th grade and beyond content. My kid also had a 155 WISC FRI (ceiling score) and iready scores off the charts. Despite the fact that the principal and math resource teacher supported a large skip, Gatehouse only authorized a single year skip. Eventually, my kid was skipped another year at the AAP center. He had many years where he completely wasted his time in school math and didn't learn a thing. He took Calculus in 8th grade, but probably could have taken it in 6th if not blocked by FCPS. Is it a big deal that he had to waste so many years in math class? Not really. Was the whole thing pointless and stupid? Definitely. Is it an illustration that FCPS has no interest whatsoever in supporting gifted kids or being flexible in any way? Certainly.

Had my kid struggled at any point along the way, it would have been much better to spend more time with the material giving him trouble than it would have to waste extra time on the material that he already mastered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355332/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277710454_Effects_of_Academic_Acceleration_on_the_Social_and_Emotional_Lives_of_Gifted_Students
https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/the-effects-of-acceleration-on-the-social-and-emotional-development-of-gifted-students/

The science is strongly in favor of acceleration for gifted students - in fact, it is the one evidence-based intervention for gifted kids with the strongest effect and most robust supporting research.

Her college years are likely to be similar to the middle and high school years of many others in terms of having lots of free time and no responsibilities, but will also be much, much more intellectually fulfilling and psychologically productive.

An accelerated student who's starting to struggle can always do what other struggling students do - use the resources provided by the school to struggling students. Even if they repeat a grade, they'll end up no worse off than they would have if they hadn't accelerated.

This. 100%. Acceleration may or may not be the best course for any particular gifted student, but it should be an option on the table that is fully considered. In FCPS, it is not an option on the table. Just as an example, my kid was tested at the beginning of 1st grade by the school math resource teacher. She concluded that my kid knew 100% of the content through 4th grade math and should be skipped ahead 2 or 3 grade levels in math. They didn't even test 5th grade and beyond content. My kid also had a 155 WISC FRI (ceiling score) and iready scores off the charts. Despite the fact that the principal and math resource teacher supported a large skip, Gatehouse only authorized a single year skip. Eventually, my kid was skipped another year at the AAP center. He had many years where he completely wasted his time in school math and didn't learn a thing. He took Calculus in 8th grade, but probably could have taken it in 6th if not blocked by FCPS. Is it a big deal that he had to waste so many years in math class? Not really. Was the whole thing pointless and stupid? Definitely. Is it an illustration that FCPS has no interest whatsoever in supporting gifted kids or being flexible in any way? Certainly.

Had my kid struggled at any point along the way, it would have been much better to spend more time with the material giving him trouble than it would have to waste extra time on the material that he already mastered.

I am all for acceleration for some kids. My kid skipped 2 grades in elementary school and further skipped 3 years ahead in math. Did really well in HS and went on to one of the top university and graduated in 3 years with a double major in CS and econ so he saved 3 years and is doing well on wall street making almost half a mil in his early 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9355332/
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/277710454_Effects_of_Academic_Acceleration_on_the_Social_and_Emotional_Lives_of_Gifted_Students
https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/the-effects-of-acceleration-on-the-social-and-emotional-development-of-gifted-students/

The science is strongly in favor of acceleration for gifted students - in fact, it is the one evidence-based intervention for gifted kids with the strongest effect and most robust supporting research.

Her college years are likely to be similar to the middle and high school years of many others in terms of having lots of free time and no responsibilities, but will also be much, much more intellectually fulfilling and psychologically productive.

An accelerated student who's starting to struggle can always do what other struggling students do - use the resources provided by the school to struggling students. Even if they repeat a grade, they'll end up no worse off than they would have if they hadn't accelerated.

This. 100%. Acceleration may or may not be the best course for any particular gifted student, but it should be an option on the table that is fully considered. In FCPS, it is not an option on the table. Just as an example, my kid was tested at the beginning of 1st grade by the school math resource teacher. She concluded that my kid knew 100% of the content through 4th grade math and should be skipped ahead 2 or 3 grade levels in math. They didn't even test 5th grade and beyond content. My kid also had a 155 WISC FRI (ceiling score) and iready scores off the charts. Despite the fact that the principal and math resource teacher supported a large skip, Gatehouse only authorized a single year skip. Eventually, my kid was skipped another year at the AAP center. He had many years where he completely wasted his time in school math and didn't learn a thing. He took Calculus in 8th grade, but probably could have taken it in 6th if not blocked by FCPS. Is it a big deal that he had to waste so many years in math class? Not really. Was the whole thing pointless and stupid? Definitely. Is it an illustration that FCPS has no interest whatsoever in supporting gifted kids or being flexible in any way? Certainly.

Had my kid struggled at any point along the way, it would have been much better to spend more time with the material giving him trouble than it would have to waste extra time on the material that he already mastered.

I am all for acceleration for some kids. My kid skipped 2 grades in elementary school and further skipped 3 years ahead in math. Did really well in HS and went on to one of the top university and graduated in 3 years with a double major in CS and econ so he saved 3 years and is doing well on wall street making almost half a mil in his early 20s.

13:06 PP here. While my kid could have used another grade or two of math skipping, I'll admit that my kid would not have been a good candidate for anything more than a 1 year whole grade skip. He's well placed with on grade level honors/AP humanities courses, and he would be eaten alive with the social aspect of radical acceleration. Your kid and the 11 year old at TJ were great candidates for whole grade acceleration, and they're thriving. This is why school systems need to be flexible in how they address outliers. Apparently, Gainesville is flexible and responsive, while FCPS is rigid and unsupportive. It still makes no sense that OP's kid, who was deemed ready for Algebra by her previous school system, wasn't even given a placement test or the chance to take Algebra in FCPS. Why make a kid twiddle their thumbs for an entire year?