Algebra 1 as Sixth Grader?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tried to find the number of 6th graders who took Algebra 1 using the SOL score site.

There were 31 6th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year. Then I re-ran the report by schools in FCPS with 6th graders who took the EOC (HS Level seems to be EOC) for Algebra 1. There were 13 schools listed but the normal fields for count, pass advanced, pass, fail and the like were not listed due to numbers being so small.

The schools were Churchill Road, Forestville, Greenbriar West, Haycock, Holmes, Kent Garden, Lemon Road, Mosaic, Navy, Oakton, Spring Hill, Timber Lane, and Willow Springs.

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There were 6,635 8th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There might be an ES school or two that has a “class” of kids taking Algebra 1 but I am not so certain that they are being taught at the ES and not taking the class online. I would guess most of those kids are being bussed to a MS and then to ES if they are taking a physical class.

If the link below doesn’t work, google VDOE test Results Builder https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

You can run the report for multiple years and see what schools have have 6th graders in Algebra 1 for a period of years. I am going to guess that the numbers will remain small.

OP, there are not many kids in Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not going to lie, DS has not been challenged in FCPS math since he started school. His Quant CoGAT was a 140 so I don’t think he met the threshold for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, even with Pass Advanced SOLs every year and iReadys 80 points or more higher then the end of year threshold. We moved him into RSM Math in 4th grade so that he would have some math there that would challenge him. He says that he likes the RSM and that it is more interesting then school math but most of it is still not hard. They have harder problems and more applied problems so it is more interesting and he does have to think about things more. Your solution might be to look at AoPS or RSM for math challenge but I would be surprised if your school moved your child to Algebra 1 this far into the school year. I could be wrong but I would not wait until the end of the quarter to see what the school says only because it will be harder to catch up every week she is not in Algebra 1.

If RSM is too slow for your DC, you can try to advance him a difficulty level or class level. RSM has a bunch of classes, so plenty of ways to match what your DC needs.

[Anonymous]

DS is in the honors class. He reports that many of the concepts being taught now were taught last year in the math competition class. The work isn’t easy per se but it isn’t super hard either. It is solid practice for him and good for more firmly setting good skills. He likes that the RSM problems are more complicated and that they discuss different solutions.

He would take just the math competition class if it was allowed but we were told that is not allowed.

[Anonymous]

Why are you doing this at the end of September?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why are you doing this at the end of September?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a question for your school principal or AART. Since it's almost October, it's a little late to transfer into Algebra now. It would have been better to ask earlier.

I first raised it this summer when she got accepted into the Level IV program and was told to wait until the end of 1st quarter to re-evaluate.

[Anonymous]

I am a little confused. You’re asking what other FCPS options there might be. If the school said she could go to algebra, would you place her in that after she’s already missed so much? It’s hard to see that working if the school hasn’t already said she needs more (after seeing her this last month).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I tried to find the number of 6th graders who took Algebra 1 using the SOL score site.

There were 31 6th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year. Then I re-ran the report by schools in FCPS with 6th graders who took the EOC (HS Level seems to be EOC) for Algebra 1. There were 13 schools listed but the normal fields for count, pass advanced, pass, fail and the like were not listed due to numbers being so small.

The schools were Churchill Road, Forestville, Greenbriar West, Haycock, Holmes, Kent Garden, Lemon Road, Mosaic, Navy, Oakton, Spring Hill, Timber Lane, and Willow Springs.

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There were 6,635 8th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There might be an ES school or two that has a “class” of kids taking Algebra 1 but I am not so certain that they are being taught at the ES and not taking the class online. I would guess most of those kids are being bussed to a MS and then to ES if they are taking a physical class.

If the link below doesn’t work, google VDOE test Results Builder https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

You can run the report for multiple years and see what schools have have 6th graders in Algebra 1 for a period of years. I am going to guess that the numbers will remain small.

OP, there are not many kids in Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not going to lie, DS has not been challenged in FCPS math since he started school. His Quant CoGAT was a 140 so I don’t think he met the threshold for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, even with Pass Advanced SOLs every year and iReadys 80 points or more higher then the end of year threshold. We moved him into RSM Math in 4th grade so that he would have some math there that would challenge him. He says that he likes the RSM and that it is more interesting then school math but most of it is still not hard. They have harder problems and more applied problems so it is more interesting and he does have to think about things more. Your solution might be to look at AoPS or RSM for math challenge but I would be surprised if your school moved your child to Algebra 1 this far into the school year. I could be wrong but I would not wait until the end of the quarter to see what the school says only because it will be harder to catch up every week she is not in Algebra 1.

Wow, thanks for the link to the data and for digging into it. Lots of new info/tests (SOLs, etc.) for me to learn about coming from out of state. I am sure there are plenty of FCPS kids capable of being further accelerated in math, but based on the numbers, it does not seem like FCPS generally allows students to get as far ahead in math as our prior school district did. She completed 8th grade math in 5th grade, so some of Algebra I will even be a review. I doubt she'll be able to move into Algebra I at this point of the year unless the online course is self-paced. This was more of an info-gathering post for me to better understand FCPS math options, once I saw that some middle schools offer Algebra II, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tried to find the number of 6th graders who took Algebra 1 using the SOL score site.

There were 31 6th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year. Then I re-ran the report by schools in FCPS with 6th graders who took the EOC (HS Level seems to be EOC) for Algebra 1. There were 13 schools listed but the normal fields for count, pass advanced, pass, fail and the like were not listed due to numbers being so small.

The schools were Churchill Road, Forestville, Greenbriar West, Haycock, Holmes, Kent Garden, Lemon Road, Mosaic, Navy, Oakton, Spring Hill, Timber Lane, and Willow Springs.

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There were 6,635 8th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There might be an ES school or two that has a “class” of kids taking Algebra 1 but I am not so certain that they are being taught at the ES and not taking the class online. I would guess most of those kids are being bussed to a MS and then to ES if they are taking a physical class.

If the link below doesn’t work, google VDOE test Results Builder https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

You can run the report for multiple years and see what schools have have 6th graders in Algebra 1 for a period of years. I am going to guess that the numbers will remain small.

OP, there are not many kids in Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not going to lie, DS has not been challenged in FCPS math since he started school. His Quant CoGAT was a 140 so I don’t think he met the threshold for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, even with Pass Advanced SOLs every year and iReadys 80 points or more higher then the end of year threshold. We moved him into RSM Math in 4th grade so that he would have some math there that would challenge him. He says that he likes the RSM and that it is more interesting then school math but most of it is still not hard. They have harder problems and more applied problems so it is more interesting and he does have to think about things more. Your solution might be to look at AoPS or RSM for math challenge but I would be surprised if your school moved your child to Algebra 1 this far into the school year. I could be wrong but I would not wait until the end of the quarter to see what the school says only because it will be harder to catch up every week she is not in Algebra 1.

Wow, thanks for the link to the data and for digging into it. Lots of new info/tests (SOLs, etc.) for me to learn about coming from out of state. I am sure there are plenty of FCPS kids capable of being further accelerated in math, but based on the numbers, it does not seem like FCPS generally allows students to get as far ahead in math as our prior school district did. She completed 8th grade math in 5th grade, so some of Algebra I will even be a review. I doubt she'll be able to move into Algebra I at this point of the year unless the online course is self-paced. This was more of an info-gathering post for me to better understand FCPS math options, once I saw that some middle schools offer Algebra II, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

I was curious about the numbers myself. There are people posting on this site that make it seem like Algebra in 6 or 7 grade is common or the norm but the numbers show it is not.

RSM teachs pre-algebra in 6th grade and algebra in 7th grade. Maybe look there and treat math at school as drill work to solidify her knowledge. Ram also offers a 1 hour geometry sequence starting in 6th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, is there another way for her to learn math, such as a math team or math club at school?

I don't believe any FCPS elementary schools have an algebra class which would mean your daughter would have to take it at the local middle school, making it logistically harder for you and her, as well as likely harder to get her approved by the school. And this is all because of a stupid arbitrary county rule that 6th graders are elementary school students, even though most 6th graders in the country are as old and behave like middle schoolers. Well, if they're going to do that, they should also put support in place for students such as your daughter, such as having something to offer at the elementary school.

To your other question, how do kids get Alg 2 in 8th: Search up summer geometry threads, there are many of them. FCPS offers a summer geometry course that runs about 5 weeks I believe and is supposed to cover 1 whole year of geometry (a terrible idea, btw). Parents push kids into this causing a bunch of stress in the process, a highly inadequate understanding of geometry fundamentals, and quite possibly harms their interest in mathematics. Some kids also push to take it, mainly if they have friends who are doing it.. that way they can be in the same class with their friends for the following year and not be behind.

+1 from the summer geometry threads, the course is *brutal* and really should only be taken by students who are legit math prodigies or have already done a full geometry course through AoPS .

[Anonymous]

Think carefully about this from a social perspective. Most middle schools don't offer algebra 2 (although the centers often do since many years enough kids do geometry over the summer) but most send kids up to the nearest high school because there are only a small number (you need at least 8 to justify a teacher IME). That means your 8th grader will be partnered up in class with 10th graders (majority of honors algebra II kids are sophomores).

Transportation is not provided, so if your middle school is adjacent to a high school it's easy enough to walk over, but if it's not you will be responsible for schlepping back and forth, or she will have to take it virtually, which is less than ideal.

Same thing with elementary algebra. I've taught algebra for 15 years at the middle school level, and only had 1 6th grader in that entire time. He was from a late start elementary, so he was able to come to 1st period honors algebra and then mom drove him back to his elementary school for the remainder of the day. If parent transportation hadn't been available, he'd have had to do it online, which is really rough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I tried to find the number of 6th graders who took Algebra 1 using the SOL score site.

There were 31 6th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year. Then I re-ran the report by schools in FCPS with 6th graders who took the EOC (HS Level seems to be EOC) for Algebra 1. There were 13 schools listed but the normal fields for count, pass advanced, pass, fail and the like were not listed due to numbers being so small.

The schools were Churchill Road, Forestville, Greenbriar West, Haycock, Holmes, Kent Garden, Lemon Road, Mosaic, Navy, Oakton, Spring Hill, Timber Lane, and Willow Springs.

There were 1,680 7th graders who took Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There were 6,635 8th graders who took the Algebra 1 SOL last year.

There might be an ES school or two that has a “class” of kids taking Algebra 1 but I am not so certain that they are being taught at the ES and not taking the class online. I would guess most of those kids are being bussed to a MS and then to ES if they are taking a physical class.

If the link below doesn’t work, google VDOE test Results Builder https://p1pe.doe.virginia.gov/apex_captcha/home.do?apexTypeId=306

You can run the report for multiple years and see what schools have have 6th graders in Algebra 1 for a period of years. I am going to guess that the numbers will remain small.

OP, there are not many kids in Algebra 1 in 6th grade. Not going to lie, DS has not been challenged in FCPS math since he started school. His Quant CoGAT was a 140 so I don’t think he met the threshold for Algebra 1 in 6th grade, even with Pass Advanced SOLs every year and iReadys 80 points or more higher then the end of year threshold. We moved him into RSM Math in 4th grade so that he would have some math there that would challenge him. He says that he likes the RSM and that it is more interesting then school math but most of it is still not hard. They have harder problems and more applied problems so it is more interesting and he does have to think about things more. Your solution might be to look at AoPS or RSM for math challenge but I would be surprised if your school moved your child to Algebra 1 this far into the school year. I could be wrong but I would not wait until the end of the quarter to see what the school says only because it will be harder to catch up every week she is not in Algebra 1.

Wow, thanks for the link to the data and for digging into it. Lots of new info/tests (SOLs, etc.) for me to learn about coming from out of state. I am sure there are plenty of FCPS kids capable of being further accelerated in math, but based on the numbers, it does not seem like FCPS generally allows students to get as far ahead in math as our prior school district did. She completed 8th grade math in 5th grade, so some of Algebra I will even be a review. I doubt she'll be able to move into Algebra I at this point of the year unless the online course is self-paced. This was more of an info-gathering post for me to better understand FCPS math options, once I saw that some middle schools offer Algebra II, so I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

What was your prior school district?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Think carefully about this from a social perspective. Most middle schools don't offer algebra 2 (although the centers often do since many years enough kids do geometry over the summer) but most send kids up to the nearest high school because there are only a small number (you need at least 8 to justify a teacher IME). That means your 8th grader will be partnered up in class with 10th graders (majority of honors algebra II kids are sophomores).

Transportation is not provided, so if your middle school is adjacent to a high school it's easy enough to walk over, but if it's not you will be responsible for schlepping back and forth, or she will have to take it virtually, which is less than ideal.

Same thing with elementary algebra. I've taught algebra for 15 years at the middle school level, and only had 1 6th grader in that entire time. He was from a late start elementary, so he was able to come to 1st period honors algebra and then mom drove him back to his elementary school for the remainder of the day. If parent transportation hadn't been available, he'd have had to do it online, which is really rough.

Online can work out fine if there’s support available, but in that case it’s turns into private tutoring. I am curious to what specific issues would a 8th grade encounter in a class with 10th graders that someone would have to be careful about.

Agree that transportation can be a pain, which makes the online option more appealing.

[Anonymous]

You need to provide math supplements at home. It doesn’t look like you will be set up for math at the level your child is able to work at for grades 6-8.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think carefully about this from a social perspective. Most middle schools don't offer algebra 2 (although the centers often do since many years enough kids do geometry over the summer) but most send kids up to the nearest high school because there are only a small number (you need at least 8 to justify a teacher IME). That means your 8th grader will be partnered up in class with 10th graders (majority of honors algebra II kids are sophomores).

Transportation is not provided, so if your middle school is adjacent to a high school it's easy enough to walk over, but if it's not you will be responsible for schlepping back and forth, or she will have to take it virtually, which is less than ideal.

Same thing with elementary algebra. I've taught algebra for 15 years at the middle school level, and only had 1 6th grader in that entire time. He was from a late start elementary, so he was able to come to 1st period honors algebra and then mom drove him back to his elementary school for the remainder of the day. If parent transportation hadn't been available, he'd have had to do it online, which is really rough.

Online can work out fine if there’s support available, but in that case it’s turns into private tutoring. I am curious to what specific issues would a 8th grade encounter in a class with 10th graders that someone would have to be careful about.

Agree that transportation can be a pain, which makes the online option more appealing.

Well, the 10th-11th graders in the Alg II class are not going to be the “honors” student teenagers. There will be the typical swearing, inappropriate jokes, kids sleeping, kids playing with their phones, kids on YouTube when they shouldn’t be, teacher being interrupted.

But more concerning to me as a parent would be the transportation and time missed at their home school. For one, the schedules aren’t going to line up exactly. Between leaving class, waiting to be picked up, the commute to the high school, actual class, waiting to be picked back up, commute back, etc. she will be missing a significant part of classes at her middle school every day. You will be lucky if you can get high school math class to vaguely line up to when rest of 8th grade has math. Then to also try and put non core classes before and after math class as well is a pretty hard ask and might not be possible.

I think the best solution and what I would do would be to find her the best online program/class you can and have her go to the library for self-study math during what would be her 8th grade math period. Way less disruptive to her day (and yours) and she would probably get more out of than taking math with a bunch of 10-11th graders who probably don’t love math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think carefully about this from a social perspective. Most middle schools don't offer algebra 2 (although the centers often do since many years enough kids do geometry over the summer) but most send kids up to the nearest high school because there are only a small number (you need at least 8 to justify a teacher IME). That means your 8th grader will be partnered up in class with 10th graders (majority of honors algebra II kids are sophomores).

Transportation is not provided, so if your middle school is adjacent to a high school it's easy enough to walk over, but if it's not you will be responsible for schlepping back and forth, or she will have to take it virtually, which is less than ideal.

Same thing with elementary algebra. I've taught algebra for 15 years at the middle school level, and only had 1 6th grader in that entire time. He was from a late start elementary, so he was able to come to 1st period honors algebra and then mom drove him back to his elementary school for the remainder of the day. If parent transportation hadn't been available, he'd have had to do it online, which is really rough.

Online can work out fine if there’s support available, but in that case it’s turns into private tutoring. I am curious to what specific issues would a 8th grade encounter in a class with 10th graders that someone would have to be careful about.

Agree that transportation can be a pain, which makes the online option more appealing.

Well, the 10th-11th graders in the Alg II class are not going to be the “honors” student teenagers. There will be the typical swearing, inappropriate jokes, kids sleeping, kids playing with their phones, kids on YouTube when they shouldn’t be, teacher being interrupted.

But more concerning to me as a parent would be the transportation and time missed at their home school. For one, the schedules aren’t going to line up exactly. Between leaving class, waiting to be picked up, the commute to the high school, actual class, waiting to be picked back up, commute back, etc. she will be missing a significant part of classes at her middle school every day. You will be lucky if you can get high school math class to vaguely line up to when rest of 8th grade has math. Then to also try and put non core classes before and after math class as well is a pretty hard ask and might not be possible.

I think the best solution and what I would do would be to find her the best online program/class you can and have her go to the library for self-study math during what would be her 8th grade math period. Way less disruptive to her day (and yours) and she would probably get more out of than taking math with a bunch of 10-11th graders who probably don’t love math.

You haven't met post-Covid honors kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Think carefully about this from a social perspective. Most middle schools don't offer algebra 2 (although the centers often do since many years enough kids do geometry over the summer) but most send kids up to the nearest high school because there are only a small number (you need at least 8 to justify a teacher IME). That means your 8th grader will be partnered up in class with 10th graders (majority of honors algebra II kids are sophomores).

Transportation is not provided, so if your middle school is adjacent to a high school it's easy enough to walk over, but if it's not you will be responsible for schlepping back and forth, or she will have to take it virtually, which is less than ideal.

Same thing with elementary algebra. I've taught algebra for 15 years at the middle school level, and only had 1 6th grader in that entire time. He was from a late start elementary, so he was able to come to 1st period honors algebra and then mom drove him back to his elementary school for the remainder of the day. If parent transportation hadn't been available, he'd have had to do it online, which is really rough.

Online can work out fine if there’s support available, but in that case it’s turns into private tutoring. I am curious to what specific issues would a 8th grade encounter in a class with 10th graders that someone would have to be careful about.

Agree that transportation can be a pain, which makes the online option more appealing.

Well, the 10th-11th graders in the Alg II class are not going to be the “honors” student teenagers. There will be the typical swearing, inappropriate jokes, kids sleeping, kids playing with their phones, kids on YouTube when they shouldn’t be, teacher being interrupted.

But more concerning to me as a parent would be the transportation and time missed at their home school. For one, the schedules aren’t going to line up exactly. Between leaving class, waiting to be picked up, the commute to the high school, actual class, waiting to be picked back up, commute back, etc. she will be missing a significant part of classes at her middle school every day. You will be lucky if you can get high school math class to vaguely line up to when rest of 8th grade has math. Then to also try and put non core classes before and after math class as well is a pretty hard ask and might not be possible.

I think the best solution and what I would do would be to find her the best online program/class you can and have her go to the library for self-study math during what would be her 8th grade math period. Way less disruptive to her day (and yours) and she would probably get more out of than taking math with a bunch of 10-11th graders who probably don’t love math.

You haven't met post-Covid honors kids.

I wasn’t insinuating their behavior was worse, though it may be. But the level of interest and learning in class will be less for sure.