Antisemitic incident at Blair

[Anonymous]

The next time someone scrawls the n-word on a wall, I’m going to say it’s just a misunderstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids being kids. Blah Blah

I assume you’d say the same thing if someone scrawled an anti-Black or anti-LGBTQ slur on the wall of a school, right?

Who cares. It is racist to be upset. When I was a kid we call each other a dirty blank, Cheap, blank, dumb blank and write people we say Dago, Polock, Mick etc.

Then we all go play basketball together or pinball and hangout.

Now it is a race crime to be a kid. Do you guys ever watch Archie Bunker? His neighbor was black he lived in a neighborhood of all races and religions and as such said things big deal. He could say it as they were his friends. Archie Bunker was kissed by a Black Man on TV!!

This absolutely is a hate crime and you sound like you were raised poorly and one might question your parenting if you think this is ok.

No, we never watched Archie Bunker. It wasn't funny and racist.

It was funny. And the whole point about Archie Bunker is that he was a racist and a bigot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_in_the_Family

It wasn't funny and you can make a joke of this as it doesn't impact you or your kids but it has a huge impact on our kids who don't feel safe going to school.

All in the Family was a funny show. Have you ever watched it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree the fact incident is concerning and the involved students should be disciplined.

But I also think it's possible-to-likely that the incident was kids being stupid and ignorant, but not actually anti-Semitic. My experience with other people in this area makes me think it's unlikely that a group of students at Blair are starting some kind of Nazi club. The way the incident is described makes me think there's some likelihood they didn't realize that what they were doing looked like a Nazi salute to others. They were scene doing it together while posing for a picture. Does anyone actually think a group of students at Blair were like "let's take a picture of ourselves doing a Nazi salute in theiddle of the day in campus!"?

This is different from the incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti at other MoCo schools, acts committed at night and which are clearly intended as hate speech. It's not hard to imagine an angry, wrong headed individual doing that, while obviously making an effort not to get caught

What are the odds this was a group of kids doing a dance move or attempting a "cool" pose for a photo, and just didn't realize it looked like they were heiling Hitler?

Blair parent here and I agree. A Hitler salute could easily be a dance move or a regular salute. Given the reaction though I wonder if it was more than that? Eg directed at Jewish students, knowingly a Hitler salute or accompanied by Nazi or antisemitic language?

You realize you’re minimizing antisemitism, right? Would you do that if the kids were doing something anti-Asian or anti-Black?

No if it was clearly anti Asian or anti black. You realize Hitler targeted other races too don’t you? A Hitler salute is offensive to blacks, gays, Gypsys, the disabled and many others targeted by Hitler. Many members of my family were interred and some died in Nazi concentration camps, and more were executed by the Nazis.

Again, I think there’s more to this story than we know - there must be evidence that it was more than just a raised right hand that could be easily misinterpreted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not minimizing an anti-semitic incident. I said it should be taken seriously and the kids should be disciplined EVEN if it was unintentional, because I think you have to take this that seriously. My sense is that the incident probably made Jewish students feel very uneasy and that alone is enough to justify disciplining these kids, even if their actions were the result of ignorance or stupidity rather than actual anti-semitism.

But I think it's worth it to stop and ask ourselves if we really think a group of Blair students got together in the middle of the school day, decided to do a Hitler salute, practiced it in front of other students, and then went outside to take a photo of themselves doing it. I just think it's worth noting that this sounds implausible in this community because this would be a level of overt Nazi sympathizing that does not make sense with what I know of the community. There is of course anti-semitic sentiment around here, but it is much more covert than that and the people who share those sentiments generally don't view themselves as Nazis and in fact would condemn Nazism.

I just think we should maybe consider that this was more of an unfortunate misunderstanding than evidence that Blair harbors a group of Nazi students.

Just stop. You keep digging yourself into a deeper hole.

There's no hole. Do you really think there is a neo-Nazi group at Blair? There is not. These were dumb kids doing something they shouldn't have, they are being held accountable, but it is not a sign of a Nazi uprising. Extremely strong chance it was a misunderstanding.

Who was misunderstanding what? It looked like the Nazi salute but it was actually a yoga position? It was the Nazi salute but they thought "Nazis" were a TikTok dance?

Do you really not see how kids born in 2009-2013 might not realize that raising your arm at a certain height is a Nazi salute? Or might be not realize how closely a dance move or a pose for a photo resembles a Nazi salute? It's entirely possible they've never seen photos of it or had anyone explain to them what the salute was. Even if they know what Nazis are.

This incident is distinct from situations where a clearly anti-semitic statement has been made or written in graffiti, or incidents involving swastikas which are very specific and don't get accidentally drawn places.

Agree. It’s not as obvious or widely known as a swastika. It’s also more easily misinterpreted. Were they goose stepping too?!

[Anonymous]

There was a plot on a recent show (The Chair, with Sandra Oh) about a college professor doing a Nazi salute in class in order to make a point about fascism and absurdism. It was a very bad idea, kids filmed it and found it offensive, he got in trouble, which is correct. But the character wasn't anti-semitic and wasn't making an anti-semitic statement. He was not a Nazi-sympathizer. He had a massive lapse in judgement and didn't think clearly about how that is not something you can do in jest or to make a point.

I think it's entirely possible that this is a similar situation. That doesn't mean I think it's great and the involves students should be off the hook. But I do think it's different from someone using a racist slur or carving racist imagery into a building or piece of furniture. But I think it probably needs to be handled with education and enlightenment, not harsh punishment.

Unless it turns out these kids are starting a Nazi group on campus and did this specifically to send a message to Jewish students and teachers. But I really seriously doubt that's what it was, and I think it's worth it to point out the difference in these incidents. One makes me scared to send my child to Blair, the other is an example of kids being idiots who need to wise up and grow up. I really think this is probably in the latter category.

[Anonymous]

I also think it's valid to point out that Nazi imagery isn't just anti-semitic. It's also racist, ableist, homophobic. The Nazis target Jews more than others but it's not like they were racially tolerant. And they killed people for having disabilities or being gay, as well. So it's not just Jewish students or people who should be offended by this incident.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think it's valid to point out that Nazi imagery isn't just anti-semitic. It's also racist, ableist, homophobic. The Nazis target Jews more than others but it's not like they were racially tolerant. And they killed people for having disabilities or being gay, as well. So it's not just Jewish students or people who should be offended by this incident.

As a Jew, I recognize this of course, but it’s also really disheartening for people to constantly be trying to minimize these incidents.

It’s like you can never just consider it enough that we were targeted. You have to qualify by saying “well other people were killed by the Nazis too” or “well it was just kids being kids.”

Makes me feel like antisemitism alone isn’t enough for you to consider being our ally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a plot on a recent show (The Chair, with Sandra Oh) about a college professor doing a Nazi salute in class in order to make a point about fascism and absurdism. It was a very bad idea, kids filmed it and found it offensive, he got in trouble, which is correct. But the character wasn't anti-semitic and wasn't making an anti-semitic statement. He was not a Nazi-sympathizer. He had a massive lapse in judgement and didn't think clearly about how that is not something you can do in jest or to make a point.

I think it's entirely possible that this is a similar situation. That doesn't mean I think it's great and the involves students should be off the hook. But I do think it's different from someone using a racist slur or carving racist imagery into a building or piece of furniture. But I think it probably needs to be handled with education and enlightenment, not harsh punishment.

Unless it turns out these kids are starting a Nazi group on campus and did this specifically to send a message to Jewish students and teachers. But I really seriously doubt that's what it was, and I think it's worth it to point out the difference in these incidents. One makes me scared to send my child to Blair, the other is an example of kids being idiots who need to wise up and grow up. I really think this is probably in the latter category.

Are you Jewish? If not, you don’t get to say what makes an antisemitic incident serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree the fact incident is concerning and the involved students should be disciplined.

But I also think it's possible-to-likely that the incident was kids being stupid and ignorant, but not actually anti-Semitic. My experience with other people in this area makes me think it's unlikely that a group of students at Blair are starting some kind of Nazi club. The way the incident is described makes me think there's some likelihood they didn't realize that what they were doing looked like a Nazi salute to others. They were scene doing it together while posing for a picture. Does anyone actually think a group of students at Blair were like "let's take a picture of ourselves doing a Nazi salute in theiddle of the day in campus!"?

This is different from the incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti at other MoCo schools, acts committed at night and which are clearly intended as hate speech. It's not hard to imagine an angry, wrong headed individual doing that, while obviously making an effort not to get caught

What are the odds this was a group of kids doing a dance move or attempting a "cool" pose for a photo, and just didn't realize it looked like they were heiling Hitler?

Blair parent here and I agree. A Hitler salute could easily be a dance move or a regular salute. Given the reaction though I wonder if it was more than that? Eg directed at Jewish students, knowingly a Hitler salute or accompanied by Nazi or antisemitic language?

You realize you’re minimizing antisemitism, right? Would you do that if the kids were doing something anti-Asian or anti-Black?

No if it was clearly anti Asian or anti black. You realize Hitler targeted other races too don’t you? A Hitler salute is offensive to blacks, gays, Gypsys, the disabled and many others targeted by Hitler. Many members of my family were interred and some died in Nazi concentration camps, and more were executed by the Nazis.

Again, I think there’s more to this story than we know - there must be evidence that it was more than just a raised right hand that could be easily misinterpreted.

I have family members who were killed by the Nazis too. My dad’s entire side of the family is in this country because of pogroms by the Soviets against Ukrainian Jews in Odessa.

So don’t lecture me about antisemitism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree the fact incident is concerning and the involved students should be disciplined.

But I also think it's possible-to-likely that the incident was kids being stupid and ignorant, but not actually anti-Semitic. My experience with other people in this area makes me think it's unlikely that a group of students at Blair are starting some kind of Nazi club. The way the incident is described makes me think there's some likelihood they didn't realize that what they were doing looked like a Nazi salute to others. They were scene doing it together while posing for a picture. Does anyone actually think a group of students at Blair were like "let's take a picture of ourselves doing a Nazi salute in theiddle of the day in campus!"?

This is different from the incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti at other MoCo schools, acts committed at night and which are clearly intended as hate speech. It's not hard to imagine an angry, wrong headed individual doing that, while obviously making an effort not to get caught

What are the odds this was a group of kids doing a dance move or attempting a "cool" pose for a photo, and just didn't realize it looked like they were heiling Hitler?

Blair parent here and I agree. A Hitler salute could easily be a dance move or a regular salute. Given the reaction though I wonder if it was more than that? Eg directed at Jewish students, knowingly a Hitler salute or accompanied by Nazi or antisemitic language?

You realize you’re minimizing antisemitism, right? Would you do that if the kids were doing something anti-Asian or anti-Black?

No if it was clearly anti Asian or anti black. You realize Hitler targeted other races too don’t you? A Hitler salute is offensive to blacks, gays, Gypsys, the disabled and many others targeted by Hitler. Many members of my family were interred and some died in Nazi concentration camps, and more were executed by the Nazis.

Again, I think there’s more to this story than we know - there must be evidence that it was more than just a raised right hand that could be easily misinterpreted.

I have family members who were killed by the Nazis too. My dad’s entire side of the family is in this country because of pogroms by the Soviets against Ukrainian Jews in Odessa.

So don’t lecture me about antisemitism.

1) I’m not lecturing you, responding to you lecturing me.
2) I’m not Jewish, neither were any of my (close) family members who were murdered (some by firing squad) by the Nazis for their efforts to protect Jewish people during the war, or who were sent to concentration camps because of who they were. This was not that long ago - some of the survivors only died in the past couple of years - I personally heard their stories and I personally saw the life long impact, that was both emotional and physical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Horrible. There was a recent incident at Loiderman middle school where an antisemitic symbol was found drawn in a folder in the art room. From my understanding they do not know who drew it. The principal sent a message home. We need to do better as a society. It was a teachable moment for my middle and elementary school kids to recognize symbols of hate and to know why they are harmful

Hi , I’m the OP, I’m 48 and went to Mcps. There would be swastikas etched on desks when I was in schoo. Stuff like that never made the news

Kids were suspended over this kind of stuff when I went to MCPS.

It happens at the W's almost weekly and just gets swept under the rug.

We're talking about the incident at Blair. It's clear that the solution is busing in kids from Langley Park.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was a plot on a recent show (The Chair, with Sandra Oh) about a college professor doing a Nazi salute in class in order to make a point about fascism and absurdism. It was a very bad idea, kids filmed it and found it offensive, he got in trouble, which is correct. But the character wasn't anti-semitic and wasn't making an anti-semitic statement. He was not a Nazi-sympathizer. He had a massive lapse in judgement and didn't think clearly about how that is not something you can do in jest or to make a point.

I think it's entirely possible that this is a similar situation. That doesn't mean I think it's great and the involves students should be off the hook. But I do think it's different from someone using a racist slur or carving racist imagery into a building or piece of furniture. But I think it probably needs to be handled with education and enlightenment, not harsh punishment.

Unless it turns out these kids are starting a Nazi group on campus and did this specifically to send a message to Jewish students and teachers. But I really seriously doubt that's what it was, and I think it's worth it to point out the difference in these incidents. One makes me scared to send my child to Blair, the other is an example of kids being idiots who need to wise up and grow up. I really think this is probably in the latter category.

Great minimizing. This is a hate crime. Both times. That professor should be fired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My kids went/go to Bethesda-area MCPS schools. There have been swastikas drawn on walls and desks over the years.

Nazi symbols are co-opted by kids who want to rebel against "the establishment". I very much doubt that they are specifically antisemitic, or anti-Israel or anti-Jew. I do not believe that this wealthy area, full of opportunities for everyone, has a population that suffers economically such that they would need to level hate against a specific group. I would like to remind you that historically, that sort of backlash happens under intense stress - Covid lockdowns for anti-Asian crimes, severe economic and social trauma in pre-WWII Germany leading to the rise of the Nazi party.

Un-prepared or rebellious adolescents who are bored and looking to find themselves and belong to a tribe will lash out against LGBT+, Jews, Muslims, any group perceived to be "other" than the tribe they aspire to belong to.

Exercises in wellness and tolerance can be a double-edged sword, because you can certainly educate the majority of kids who respect authority, but you're pushing the rebels to act out just because they've been told not to.

So in that context, a swastika isn't a "I hate Jews" sort of thing, but a "I just had yet another stupid assembly and I'm going to spray a swastika on this school wall to let everyone know I won't be brainwashed." The symbol is guaranteed to provoke everybody. If there was an easy anti-LGBT symbol, or an easy anti-Muslim symbol, they'd use them too! This is why the "gay" slur is the verbal equivalent of the sprayed swastika. The kids are looking to trigger their communities into outrage. They're little trolls.

The response has to be consistent education on tolerance. But it shouldn't lead you to clutch your pearls and panic, because otherwise you're just giving them what they want: attention.

If this was anti LGBT, this would be dealt with. Any hate against Jews, Muslims and Asians gets ignored. I don't care what the reason is. MCPS is claiming to they don't tolerate hate when they just don't tolerate it for specific groups that they are impacted by or scream the loudest.

The police were called, there is an investigation, a letter was sent to the Blair families, and now a news article. What more do you want?!?

Criminal charges for hate crimes, expulsion, suspension to start with.

What crime was committed? Vandalism?

As for school punishment, even kids who brutally beat up another kid don't get expulsion, so why should a non-violent offense garner such a severe punishment?

This is a case for RJ. No one was hurt, but the offender does need to learn a lesson.

What do you mean no one was hurt? They put fear in many students. Enough is enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree the fact incident is concerning and the involved students should be disciplined.

But I also think it's possible-to-likely that the incident was kids being stupid and ignorant, but not actually anti-Semitic. My experience with other people in this area makes me think it's unlikely that a group of students at Blair are starting some kind of Nazi club. The way the incident is described makes me think there's some likelihood they didn't realize that what they were doing looked like a Nazi salute to others. They were scene doing it together while posing for a picture. Does anyone actually think a group of students at Blair were like "let's take a picture of ourselves doing a Nazi salute in theiddle of the day in campus!"?

This is different from the incidents of anti-Semitic graffiti at other MoCo schools, acts committed at night and which are clearly intended as hate speech. It's not hard to imagine an angry, wrong headed individual doing that, while obviously making an effort not to get caught

What are the odds this was a group of kids doing a dance move or attempting a "cool" pose for a photo, and just didn't realize it looked like they were heiling Hitler?

Blair parent here and I agree. A Hitler salute could easily be a dance move or a regular salute. Given the reaction though I wonder if it was more than that? Eg directed at Jewish students, knowingly a Hitler salute or accompanied by Nazi or antisemitic language?

You realize you’re minimizing antisemitism, right? Would you do that if the kids were doing something anti-Asian or anti-Black?

No if it was clearly anti Asian or anti black. You realize Hitler targeted other races too don’t you? A Hitler salute is offensive to blacks, gays, Gypsys, the disabled and many others targeted by Hitler. Many members of my family were interred and some died in Nazi concentration camps, and more were executed by the Nazis.

Again, I think there’s more to this story than we know - there must be evidence that it was more than just a raised right hand that could be easily misinterpreted.

I have family members who were killed by the Nazis too. My dad’s entire side of the family is in this country because of pogroms by the Soviets against Ukrainian Jews in Odessa.

So don’t lecture me about antisemitism.

1) I’m not lecturing you, responding to you lecturing me.
2) I’m not Jewish, neither were any of my (close) family members who were murdered (some by firing squad) by the Nazis for their efforts to protect Jewish people during the war, or who were sent to concentration camps because of who they were. This was not that long ago - some of the survivors only died in the past couple of years - I personally heard their stories and I personally saw the life long impact, that was both emotional and physical.

No one is saying the Nazis only targeted Jews.

And the fact that you feel you need to tell me it wasn’t that long ago is highly offensive. Trust me — I know.