How many colleges are there, really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:USNWR lists about 1850 schools but ranks only 400 national universities and 200 LACs. I wouldn’t send my kid to the bottom half of the ranked schools, so I’d say there are 300 schools that are credible for most UMC families. But, more realistically, most UMC would want a Top 100 university or Top 50 LAC, so maybe 150 schools.

And most want a top 50 university or Top 25 LAC. So, 75 schools.

But many don't want a large public or don't want a slac or only want a small engineering school, so their top list will look very different from the one you deem acceptable.

Here's the list

https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1156315.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

Funny enough, I ran across several of these schools looking for a particular performing arts program for my child - wish those MN regional schools actually worked for her!

Instead, she has 2 MI schools in contention.

We even considered schools like Wisconsin-Stevens Point, Wichita State, and Utah Tech, but ... not happening.

Western Michigan University and Kalamazoo College have great performing arts programs and K is generous with merit aid.

WMU is very popular on the FB board I am part of. These two aren't on kiddo's list, but we did investigate.

She is actually applying to NMU, but we investigated all the directional MI schools as options. CMU could still sneak in at the end, but the performing art major currently requires very specific minor fields and NOT the ones my child is looking for.

If your DD is looking at NMU, then you two need to check this out:

https://www.pbs.org/video/dont-stop-believing-wa08j6/

Also check out 50% graduation rate

Look, that is a function of the type of kids who go there. They AREN'T the same type of student that is going to the elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are 358 NCAA Division I basketball teams. Turn on the television on Saturday mornings to see a list, with scores. Yes, Swarthmore and Carnegie Mellon are Division III. But Gardner Webb is Division I, and is more obscure academically. So, 358 is a starting point.

The University of Fort Lauderdale has D1 athletics and it seems like every student is an athlete, based on their headcount. Not sure those types of schools should "count".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc.

And any mention of them on DCUM elicits sneers that such schools are for mediocre students...

I think that talk is getting to my child through her friends, which is really unfortunate. To be fair, she IS a mediocre student AND Radford would be a nice fit for what she wants. I really think she should apply, but she just is adamant that she doesn't want to. It is by far the best curriculum for her AND the cheapest of all options.

I'm working on her.

My son was also a mediocre student from the DMV and is now a Freshman at Radford. Ad I say this as a Harvard graduate. It turns out to be a great choice--lots of faculty engagement (even as a Freshman), professors that are great teachers, small class sizes and a great support network. I think my son would have been lost at the much larger (and prestigious) that admitted him. Radford knows its student body and has responded accordingly. Keep on ignoring the DCUM sneers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc.

And any mention of them on DCUM elicits sneers that such schools are for mediocre students...

I think that talk is getting to my child through her friends, which is really unfortunate. To be fair, she IS a mediocre student AND Radford would be a nice fit for what she wants. I really think she should apply, but she just is adamant that she doesn't want to. It is by far the best curriculum for her AND the cheapest of all options.

I'm working on her.

My son was also a mediocre student from the DMV and is now a Freshman at Radford. Ad I say this as a Harvard graduate. It turns out to be a great choice--lots of faculty engagement (even as a Freshman), professors that are great teachers, small class sizes and a great support network. I think my son would have been lost at the much larger (and prestigious) that admitted him. Radford knows its student body and has responded accordingly. Keep on ignoring the DCUM sneers.

Thanks. I have a trip with her alone this weekend. We will chat.

Her other in state choice is ODU, which is admittedly in a more exciting area and they have football. That said, I still think that she is being goofy saying she doesn't even want to apply to Radford. It is limiting her options and Radford's class options in her fields of interest are better than ODU's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are 358 NCAA Division I basketball teams. Turn on the television on Saturday mornings to see a list, with scores. Yes, Swarthmore and Carnegie Mellon are Division III. But Gardner Webb is Division I, and is more obscure academically. So, 358 is a starting point.

The University of Fort Lauderdale has D1 athletics and it seems like every student is an athlete, based on their headcount. Not sure those types of schools should "count".

No, I would start with R1 research universities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_research_universities_in_the_United_States

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc.

And any mention of them on DCUM elicits sneers that such schools are for mediocre students...

I think that talk is getting to my child through her friends, which is really unfortunate. To be fair, she IS a mediocre student AND Radford would be a nice fit for what she wants. I really think she should apply, but she just is adamant that she doesn't want to. It is by far the best curriculum for her AND the cheapest of all options.

I'm working on her.

My son was also a mediocre student from the DMV and is now a Freshman at Radford. Ad I say this as a Harvard graduate. It turns out to be a great choice--lots of faculty engagement (even as a Freshman), professors that are great teachers, small class sizes and a great support network. I think my son would have been lost at the much larger (and prestigious) that admitted him. Radford knows its student body and has responded accordingly. Keep on ignoring the DCUM sneers.

Thanks. I have a trip with her alone this weekend. We will chat.

Her other in state choice is ODU, which is admittedly in a more exciting area and they have football. That said, I still think that she is being goofy saying she doesn't even want to apply to Radford. It is limiting her options and Radford's class options in her fields of interest are better than ODU's.

I highly recommend doing a trip to Radford to see the school and community. It is not as isolating as it appears to be. Virginia Tech is a short bus ride away and there are lots of fun places to go in the immediate area. Depending on what your daughter wants to study, York College of Pennsylvania might be worth exploring--they are generous enough with merit aid (even for 3.0 students like my son) to make the tuition competitive with Virginia in-state. I liked the school a great deal--my son not so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

All universities have a regional element to them.

Nearly 40% of Harvard’s entering class is from New England or the Mid-Atlantic. Only 14% from the west coast.

In contrast, 36% of Stanford undergrads come from California alone.

One big function of the US News list is to draw full-pay New York and California money out of the region, to top ranked schools in other areas. The result is downright comical at some schools, where it can seem like everyone is from New Jersey and California.

This is why Vandy is so upset about dropping a few spots in the rankings — they dropped from above to below UCLA and Cal. There are a lot of California parents who will quite sensibly refuse to pay for a lower-ranked private in Tennessee if their kid gets in to UCLA or Cal.

I think you are REALLY overestimating the stock that the average person puts into these ratings. I would be really surprised if there were parents who, a week ago, would've paid for Vandy over UCB/UCLA, but now wouldn't because it dropped a few spots on the rankings. The average person just doesn't think like that.

The number of Californians admitted to UCB or UCLA who instead picked Vanderbilt could probably fit into one dorm room there. Why would any Californian in their right mind pay 2-3 times as much to go to Vanderbilt if they got accepted to UCB or UCLA?

And the people who are choosing between these three schools are in no way "average people." The "average" high school senior in California wouldn't waste their money applying to any of those schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

All universities have a regional element to them.

Nearly 40% of Harvard’s entering class is from New England or the Mid-Atlantic. Only 14% from the west coast.

In contrast, 36% of Stanford undergrads come from California alone.

One big function of the US News list is to draw full-pay New York and California money out of the region, to top ranked schools in other areas. The result is downright comical at some schools, where it can seem like everyone is from New Jersey and California.

This is why Vandy is so upset about dropping a few spots in the rankings — they dropped from above to below UCLA and Cal. There are a lot of California parents who will quite sensibly refuse to pay for a lower-ranked private in Tennessee if their kid gets in to UCLA or Cal.

I think you are REALLY overestimating the stock that the average person puts into these ratings. I would be really surprised if there were parents who, a week ago, would've paid for Vandy over UCB/UCLA, but now wouldn't because it dropped a few spots on the rankings. The average person just doesn't think like that.

The number of Californians admitted to UCB or UCLA who instead picked Vanderbilt could probably fit into one dorm room there. Why would any Californian in their right mind pay 2-3 times as much to go to Vanderbilt if they got accepted to UCB or UCLA?

And the people who are choosing between these three schools are in no way "average people." The "average" high school senior in California wouldn't waste their money applying to any of those schools.

Makes perfect sense for Californians, but similarly non-Californians would pay little more and pick Vanderbilt over OOS UCB or UCLA
Little bit of difference in ranking is not the factor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc.

And any mention of them on DCUM elicits sneers that such schools are for mediocre students...

I think that talk is getting to my child through her friends, which is really unfortunate. To be fair, she IS a mediocre student AND Radford would be a nice fit for what she wants. I really think she should apply, but she just is adamant that she doesn't want to. It is by far the best curriculum for her AND the cheapest of all options.

I'm working on her.

My son was also a mediocre student from the DMV and is now a Freshman at Radford. Ad I say this as a Harvard graduate. It turns out to be a great choice--lots of faculty engagement (even as a Freshman), professors that are great teachers, small class sizes and a great support network. I think my son would have been lost at the much larger (and prestigious) that admitted him. Radford knows its student body and has responded accordingly. Keep on ignoring the DCUM sneers.

Thanks. I have a trip with her alone this weekend. We will chat.

Her other in state choice is ODU, which is admittedly in a more exciting area and they have football. That said, I still think that she is being goofy saying she doesn't even want to apply to Radford. It is limiting her options and Radford's class options in her fields of interest are better than ODU's.

I highly recommend doing a trip to Radford to see the school and community. It is not as isolating as it appears to be. Virginia Tech is a short bus ride away and there are lots of fun places to go in the immediate area. Depending on what your daughter wants to study, York College of Pennsylvania might be worth exploring--they are generous enough with merit aid (even for 3.0 students like my son) to make the tuition competitive with Virginia in-state. I liked the school a great deal--my son not so much.

we actually have been down there because she did a summer program 2 years ago. She liked it then, but currently isn't cool with it. They are going to be opening a new arts building next year which I think will improve her outlook, but she's being a pill.

Her current list is a huge range of different types of schools. There is one in PA - not York, though.

We visited Randolph during Private College week and she really liked it there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

All universities have a regional element to them.

Nearly 40% of Harvard’s entering class is from New England or the Mid-Atlantic. Only 14% from the west coast.

In contrast, 36% of Stanford undergrads come from California alone.

One big function of the US News list is to draw full-pay New York and California money out of the region, to top ranked schools in other areas. The result is downright comical at some schools, where it can seem like everyone is from New Jersey and California.

This is why Vandy is so upset about dropping a few spots in the rankings — they dropped from above to below UCLA and Cal. There are a lot of California parents who will quite sensibly refuse to pay for a lower-ranked private in Tennessee if their kid gets in to UCLA or Cal.

I think you are REALLY overestimating the stock that the average person puts into these ratings. I would be really surprised if there were parents who, a week ago, would've paid for Vandy over UCB/UCLA, but now wouldn't because it dropped a few spots on the rankings. The average person just doesn't think like that.

The number of Californians admitted to UCB or UCLA who instead picked Vanderbilt could probably fit into one dorm room there. Why would any Californian in their right mind pay 2-3 times as much to go to Vanderbilt if they got accepted to UCB or UCLA?

And the people who are choosing between these three schools are in no way "average people." The "average" high school senior in California wouldn't waste their money applying to any of those schools.

Makes perfect sense for Californians, but similarly non-Californians would pay little more and pick Vanderbilt over OOS UCB or UCLA
Little bit of difference in ranking is not the factor.

Sure, if you're not from California and got accepted to all three of those schools, you'd pick one based on things like majors and the type of lifestyle you're looking for. Cost of attendance is probably in the same ballpark in that situation.

The idea that a couple of points difference is the deciding factor is limited to a very small subset of weirdos (many of whom post on here).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

All universities have a regional element to them.

Nearly 40% of Harvard’s entering class is from New England or the Mid-Atlantic. Only 14% from the west coast.

In contrast, 36% of Stanford undergrads come from California alone.

One big function of the US News list is to draw full-pay New York and California money out of the region, to top ranked schools in other areas. The result is downright comical at some schools, where it can seem like everyone is from New Jersey and California.

This is why Vandy is so upset about dropping a few spots in the rankings — they dropped from above to below UCLA and Cal. There are a lot of California parents who will quite sensibly refuse to pay for a lower-ranked private in Tennessee if their kid gets in to UCLA or Cal.

I think you are REALLY overestimating the stock that the average person puts into these ratings. I would be really surprised if there were parents who, a week ago, would've paid for Vandy over UCB/UCLA, but now wouldn't because it dropped a few spots on the rankings. The average person just doesn't think like that.

The number of Californians admitted to UCB or UCLA who instead picked Vanderbilt could probably fit into one dorm room there. Why would any Californian in their right mind pay 2-3 times as much to go to Vanderbilt if they got accepted to UCB or UCLA?

And the people who are choosing between these three schools are in no way "average people." The "average" high school senior in California wouldn't waste their money applying to any of those schools.

Makes perfect sense for Californians, but similarly non-Californians would pay little more and pick Vanderbilt over OOS UCB or UCLA
Little bit of difference in ranking is not the factor.

Sure, if you're not from California and got accepted to all three of those schools, you'd pick one based on things like majors and the type of lifestyle you're looking for. Cost of attendance is probably in the same ballpark in that situation.

The idea that a couple of points difference is the deciding factor is limited to a very small subset of weirdos (many of whom post on here).

yea, in fact it doesn't overlap much of the audience in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know there are 4,000. But how many are there that anyone UMC who attended college themselves would want their kids to attend?

I wouldn't exclude schools that "nobody's heard of" because I really like the high quality selective SLACs and would gladly send a kid there. But it seems like there are tons of small bible colleges and a million regional state schools that would just be odd for a student from the DMV to attend as an OOS student. Then once you throw out all the for-profit schools and community colleges, how many are left?

The Princeton Review includes somewhere between 350-400 schools they consider high quality.

This. And Fiske is similar with about 320 schools. Any of those can potentially provide a quality education for a student willing to put in the work

I’m curious how Fiske chooses which schools to leave out. I couldn’t find VCU, but it makes USNWR’s list.

Yes I was very surprised that Fiske didn't include service academies. They are colleges and pretty high ranking ones, at that! My DD is a "freshman" (plebe) at West Point now, and a year ago we were trying to figure out the key differences among the service academies like USMA (West Point) and USNA (Naval Academy) (career trajectory, service length requirements, etc) and that's when I realized they weren't in Fiske.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc.

And any mention of them on DCUM elicits sneers that such schools are for mediocre students...

I think that talk is getting to my child through her friends, which is really unfortunate. To be fair, she IS a mediocre student AND Radford would be a nice fit for what she wants. I really think she should apply, but she just is adamant that she doesn't want to. It is by far the best curriculum for her AND the cheapest of all options.

I'm working on her.

My son was also a mediocre student from the DMV and is now a Freshman at Radford. Ad I say this as a Harvard graduate. It turns out to be a great choice--lots of faculty engagement (even as a Freshman), professors that are great teachers, small class sizes and a great support network. I think my son would have been lost at the much larger (and prestigious) that admitted him. Radford knows its student body and has responded accordingly. Keep on ignoring the DCUM sneers.

Thanks. I have a trip with her alone this weekend. We will chat.

Her other in state choice is ODU, which is admittedly in a more exciting area and they have football. That said, I still think that she is being goofy saying she doesn't even want to apply to Radford. It is limiting her options and Radford's class options in her fields of interest are better than ODU's.

I highly recommend doing a trip to Radford to see the school and community. It is not as isolating as it appears to be. Virginia Tech is a short bus ride away and there are lots of fun places to go in the immediate area. Depending on what your daughter wants to study, York College of Pennsylvania might be worth exploring--they are generous enough with merit aid (even for 3.0 students like my son) to make the tuition competitive with Virginia in-state. I liked the school a great deal--my son not so much.

we actually have been down there because she did a summer program 2 years ago. She liked it then, but currently isn't cool with it. They are going to be opening a new arts building next year which I think will improve her outlook, but she's being a pill.

Her current list is a huge range of different types of schools. There is one in PA - not York, though.

We visited Randolph during Private College week and she really liked it there.

It sounds like you have some good choices. Are you looking at VCU--I understand that they are great for the arts. Radford was not my son's first choice until he attended their Admitted Stduents event (called highlander Days). Attending that event completely changed his mind--largely because the day included quality time with the faculty in his major department. He was then completely committed to Radford and we put down a deposit that day. If you can convince her to apply (a big if, I understand), going to Highlander Day might help he make a decision. Plus, the new arts building might be open at that time. Is she a dancer? My son is good friends with several very happy dance majors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't a lot of it regional though? Plenty of middle/upper middle class families in the DMV send their kids to places like UMBC, Towson, CNU, Radford, St. Mary's MD, etc. But you're probably not going to find a lot of families from say, Minnesota sending their kids there or considering them as options. Likewise, not many families in the DMV are looking to send their kids to schools like Mankato State, UM Duluth, Winona State, etc. (i.e., regional schools in Minnesota) but those schools are certainly on the radar screen for lots of high schoolers of all social classes in MN (and WI/IA).

All universities have a regional element to them.

Nearly 40% of Harvard’s entering class is from New England or the Mid-Atlantic. Only 14% from the west coast.

In contrast, 36% of Stanford undergrads come from California alone.

One big function of the US News list is to draw full-pay New York and California money out of the region, to top ranked schools in other areas. The result is downright comical at some schools, where it can seem like everyone is from New Jersey and California.

This is why Vandy is so upset about dropping a few spots in the rankings — they dropped from above to below UCLA and Cal. There are a lot of California parents who will quite sensibly refuse to pay for a lower-ranked private in Tennessee if their kid gets in to UCLA or Cal.

I think you are REALLY overestimating the stock that the average person puts into these ratings. I would be really surprised if there were parents who, a week ago, would've paid for Vandy over UCB/UCLA, but now wouldn't because it dropped a few spots on the rankings. The average person just doesn't think like that.

The number of Californians admitted to UCB or UCLA who instead picked Vanderbilt could probably fit into one dorm room there. Why would any Californian in their right mind pay 2-3 times as much to go to Vanderbilt if they got accepted to UCB or UCLA?

And the people who are choosing between these three schools are in no way "average people." The "average" high school senior in California wouldn't waste their money applying to any of those schools.

Makes perfect sense for Californians, but similarly non-Californians would pay little more and pick Vanderbilt over OOS UCB or UCLA
Little bit of difference in ranking is not the factor.

Sure, if you're not from California and got accepted to all three of those schools, you'd pick one based on things like majors and the type of lifestyle you're looking for. Cost of attendance is probably in the same ballpark in that situation.

The idea that a couple of points difference is the deciding factor is limited to a very small subset of weirdos (many of whom post on here).

yea, in fact it doesn't overlap much of the audience in the first place.

It's kind of indicative of the bubble of the posters on here, that they think the "average" person is applying to colleges based predominantly or heavily based on rankings. And that a school dropping a few spots is somehow catastrophic for that school.