Jobs and elite colleges

[Anonymous]

In terms of job performance, I have had stars from all over - elite and lower ranked schools. I have also had bad performers from all over - both elite and lower ranked schools.

But before you get to the job, there is the interview and one thing I have found is that as an elite grad human bias goes in your favor. If I am about to interview a kid from Princeton or Amherst, I will go into that interview with the assumption that they are brilliant and hardworking and they would need to f*** up to convince me otherwise.

With non-elite grads, the burden is on them to prove how great they are. I'd never go into an interview with a Penn State grad expecting them to be brilliant, they will have to actively prove it to me. Hence, as other posters have noted above, the pressure on kids from lower ranked schools to place in the top 5%.

Now, we may not like that this is how it works, but this dynamic is definitely at play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of job performance, I have had stars from all over - elite and lower ranked schools. I have also had bad performers from all over - both elite and lower ranked schools.

But before you get to the job, there is the interview and one thing I have found is that as an elite grad human bias goes in your favor. If I am about to interview a kid from Princeton or Amherst, I will go into that interview with the assumption that they are brilliant and hardworking and they would need to f*** up to convince me otherwise.

With non-elite grads, the burden is on them to prove how great they are. I'd never go into an interview with a Penn State grad expecting them to be brilliant, they will have to actively prove it to me. Hence, as other posters have noted above, the pressure on kids from lower ranked schools to place in the top 5%.

Now, we may not like that this is how it works, but this dynamic is definitely at play.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You post about your lacrosse team networking like every week.

If your brother BOTH went to Ivy, I doubt you are some rags to riches story off the back of hard work and sportsmanship.

I mean Lacrosse is already a rich sport, I know it’s not played in poorer communities and requires expensive equipment and large fields.

Lacrosse is NOT a rich sport, it is for MC folks. Tennis or golf is a sport for the rich. It costs money to play lacrosse but nowhere near the amount for golf or tennis. Golf costs around 40k/yr and tennis around 35k/yr.

- Signed by a parent with two kids that play golf and tennis.

Lacrosse is a team sport and pretty much every Ivy lacrosse player is recruited from a powerhouse private school (often boarding school) team. Nobody from outside a certain set of schools (same with Ivy hockey recruiting 5th year prep school players and Ivy crew recruiting from certain prep schools and private UK schools ). So lacrosse players build connections early on with each other in these high schools and getting recruited often requires the cost of private school education. It isn’t just about what you pay to play.

Lots of average private schools and great public schools on this list

https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster

Damn, go DMV, we got some good lax programs and intelligent kids to dominate a roster like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually they have jobs waiting for them via their parent/relative’s company or connections.

It’s not just about the degree. It’s about the legions of privileges that enabled you to attend such a school in the first place. (And please none of the rags-to-riches stories - these obviously are not the norm.)

That’s false. You need to meet more actual people not toil in imagination land.

What matters is the Career Services Department, Recruiting, Alumni network and job or grad school placement in your area of interest.

Only some of the wealthy Intl students openly go work at some big fmaily conglomerate in the homeland. But many families require their kids to work 10 years elsewhere to learn more and new things, then come to family company.

It’s way less subtle than work for family business. It’s knowing some executive and recommending your son, and then you hire their daughter etc. it’s also knowing which careers and how to navigate them.

Unclear how you ever got an internship or job in your teens or 20s.

Did you apply and do a few rounds of interviews? And then you noticed that a bunch of hires were fast tracked into the training class or role by not interviewing, just by being someone’s kid?
That’s what you saw happening? When and where was this?!

DP. My family isn’t rich, but my dad was president of a publicly traded company. When I was interviewing for my first job after getting an MBA, my dad called someone at a company that I’d sent a resume to. The hiring manager reported up through someone used to work for my dad, and that executive made sure I got an interview. I only found that out much later, and I was pretty disappointed to hear it.

I advanced pretty quickly there, but was occasionally mystified that some people I met were really hostile on fist meeting me. I knew the company was a spin-off of my dad’s company, but didn’t know that he was deeply involved in its creation through IPO, so they all knew who my dad was and viewed me as having my job through nepotism, which turned out to be true.

You need to distinguish between (a) getting an interview or 2nd resume drop and (b) interviewing and getting the job.

After that, be yourself and drop the paranoia. If yours unable to drop the paranoia, get some meds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve been on the hiring panel for a large, multinational bank. We do care where people went to school, but it’s certainly not Ivy or bust. I don’t have a firm cutoff, but T50 is roughly where I want to see degrees from.

However, much more important is how someone comes across and what their skill set is. Show me what you bring to the table. I would hire a Fordham grad over a Harvard grad in a second if the Fordham grad brought the skill set we need.

That's great and all, but you just said that you would trash the JMU or UMBC resume and hire the less skilled Harvard grad. That's not Ivy or bust, but it's great school or bust

When did I say that? I actually said the opposite. I ultimately look at skills rather than where the degree came from.

"We do care where people went to school, but it’s certainly not Ivy or bust. I don’t have a firm cutoff, but T50 is roughly where I want to see degrees from."

It sounds like someone is screening before you ever see them if you are only seeing resumes from roughly T50. It's hard for skills to matter if you can't get past an initial screen

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the field. In finance and consulting it matters a lot. You could be the best student at the University of Georgia but you're not getting an interview at McKinsey or Goldman. It's dumb and outdated but that's how they roll. Pedigree degrees are important in those fields.

In STEM fields, it doesn't matter that much. MIT, Stanford, Rice and Cornell probably open a few more doors. But for the most part, publics like UIUC, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Texas A&M and others do a much better job than the Ivies. An Ohio State or Wisconsin degree in engineering will be taken more seriously than one from Yale or Brown.

The benefit of going to a top name school is the networking. Harvard engineering might suck, but that's a very good network for a young grad to plug into. But a lot depends on the state you live in. In states like California, Michigan, or Virginia, it's almost always better to go to the state flagship schools. If you live in Oklahoma and you're ambitious it's probably best to leave the sate.

It is NOT about the school, it is about the network. You attend the University of Georgia and you know someone who is a member of the Augusta Country Club, where the Masters is annually held, you will have a much better opportunity than someone who attended Harvard but without connections. It all comes down to networking and who you know.

Lol.

If that’s how you think things work you better stay down in Bama and Atlanta.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually they have jobs waiting for them via their parent/relative’s company or connections.

It’s not just about the degree. It’s about the legions of privileges that enabled you to attend such a school in the first place. (And please none of the rags-to-riches stories - these obviously are not the norm.)

That’s false. You need to meet more actual people not toil in imagination land.

What matters is the Career Services Department, Recruiting, Alumni network and job or grad school placement in your area of interest.

Only some of the wealthy Intl students openly go work at some big fmaily conglomerate in the homeland. But many families require their kids to work 10 years elsewhere to learn more and new things, then come to family company.

It’s way less subtle then work for family business. It’s knowing some executive and recommending your son, and then you hire their daughter etc. it’s also knowing which careers and how to navigate them.

Right and oftentimes you are working for a company that represents your family company… eg, the biglaw firm or investment bank that represented your family’s company during a merger/acquisition/ipo/real estate deal.

Hilarious. Maybe that works in podunk town.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the field. In finance and consulting it matters a lot. You could be the best student at the University of Georgia but you're not getting an interview at McKinsey or Goldman. It's dumb and outdated but that's how they roll. Pedigree degrees are important in those fields.

In STEM fields, it doesn't matter that much. MIT, Stanford, Rice and Cornell probably open a few more doors. But for the most part, publics like UIUC, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Texas A&M and others do a much better job than the Ivies. An Ohio State or Wisconsin degree in engineering will be taken more seriously than one from Yale or Brown.

The benefit of going to a top name school is the networking. Harvard engineering might suck, but that's a very good network for a young grad to plug into. But a lot depends on the state you live in. In states like California, Michigan, or Virginia, it's almost always better to go to the state flagship schools. If you live in Oklahoma and you're ambitious it's probably best to leave the sate.

It is NOT about the school, it is about the network. You attend the University of Georgia and you know someone who is a member of the Augusta Country Club, where the Masters is annually held, you will have a much better opportunity than someone who attended Harvard but without connections. It all comes down to networking and who you know.

Lol.

If that’s how you think things work you better stay down in Bama and Atlanta.

lol, parental income is still a better predictor of success than the school attended

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In terms of job performance, I have had stars from all over - elite and lower ranked schools. I have also had bad performers from all over - both elite and lower ranked schools.

But before you get to the job, there is the interview and one thing I have found is that as an elite grad human bias goes in your favor. If I am about to interview a kid from Princeton or Amherst, I will go into that interview with the assumption that they are brilliant and hardworking and they would need to f*** up to convince me otherwise.

With non-elite grads, the burden is on them to prove how great they are. I'd never go into an interview with a Penn State grad expecting them to be brilliant, they will have to actively prove it to me. Hence, as other posters have noted above, the pressure on kids from lower ranked schools to place in the top 5%.

Now, we may not like that this is how it works, but this dynamic is definitely at play.

Agree.
Unless I see a full ride academic scholarship or honors program on the cv and transcript. Then they have to prove their people and speaking skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually they have jobs waiting for them via their parent/relative’s company or connections.

It’s not just about the degree. It’s about the legions of privileges that enabled you to attend such a school in the first place. (And please none of the rags-to-riches stories - these obviously are not the norm.)

That’s false. You need to meet more actual people not toil in imagination land.

What matters is the Career Services Department, Recruiting, Alumni network and job or grad school placement in your area of interest.

Only some of the wealthy Intl students openly go work at some big fmaily conglomerate in the homeland. But many families require their kids to work 10 years elsewhere to learn more and new things, then come to family company.

It’s way less subtle then work for family business. It’s knowing some executive and recommending your son, and then you hire their daughter etc. it’s also knowing which careers and how to navigate them.

Right and oftentimes you are working for a company that represents your family company… eg, the biglaw firm or investment bank that represented your family’s company during a merger/acquisition/ipo/real estate deal.

I'm sure that if your family corporation uses a bank as its custodian or if your family firm is choosing a bank to use for a sale, you can get a job there very easily, but how many kids a year are we talking about across all of banking - 1 or 2 maybe? Oftentimes may be more than a bit of an exaggeration

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the field. In finance and consulting it matters a lot. You could be the best student at the University of Georgia but you're not getting an interview at McKinsey or Goldman. It's dumb and outdated but that's how they roll. Pedigree degrees are important in those fields.

In STEM fields, it doesn't matter that much. MIT, Stanford, Rice and Cornell probably open a few more doors. But for the most part, publics like UIUC, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Texas A&M and others do a much better job than the Ivies. An Ohio State or Wisconsin degree in engineering will be taken more seriously than one from Yale or Brown.

The benefit of going to a top name school is the networking. Harvard engineering might suck, but that's a very good network for a young grad to plug into. But a lot depends on the state you live in. In states like California, Michigan, or Virginia, it's almost always better to go to the state flagship schools. If you live in Oklahoma and you're ambitious it's probably best to leave the sate.

It is NOT about the school, it is about the network. You attend the University of Georgia and you know someone who is a member of the Augusta Country Club, where the Masters is annually held, you will have a much better opportunity than someone who attended Harvard but without connections. It all comes down to networking and who you know.

Lol.

If that’s how you think things work you better stay down in Bama and Atlanta.

lol, parental income is still a better predictor of success than the school attended

What does that have to do with the above claim that paying a fee or being a client of something gets some 22yo a job?
Banks, faangs, F500 companies have $100 millions of fees to various law firms, banks, advisories, and accountants flying around every year.
Only in podunk would that be a reason or thank you to hire some kid who needs tons of hand holding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should hire from the top half of any college.

The lower half of a Harvard class will not be better than the top half of most other schools. This is discussed by Malcolm Gladwell in case you want to google the talk.

Judging based on school’s brand is a bit silly. But maybe firms like to have schools with good branding listed in the corporate bios?

I’ve never hired based on school and focus on skills and culture fit.

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Usually they have jobs waiting for them via their parent/relative’s company or connections.

It’s not just about the degree. It’s about the legions of privileges that enabled you to attend such a school in the first place. (And please none of the rags-to-riches stories - these obviously are not the norm.)

That’s false. You need to meet more actual people not toil in imagination land.

What matters is the Career Services Department, Recruiting, Alumni network and job or grad school placement in your area of interest.

Only some of the wealthy Intl students openly go work at some big fmaily conglomerate in the homeland. But many families require their kids to work 10 years elsewhere to learn more and new things, then come to family company.

It’s way less subtle then work for family business. It’s knowing some executive and recommending your son, and then you hire their daughter etc. it’s also knowing which careers and how to navigate them.

Right and oftentimes you are working for a company that represents your family company… eg, the biglaw firm or investment bank that represented your family’s company during a merger/acquisition/ipo/real estate deal.

This reads like some badly uninformed bad movie. Are you like 15 yo?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It depends on the field. In finance and consulting it matters a lot. You could be the best student at the University of Georgia but you're not getting an interview at McKinsey or Goldman. It's dumb and outdated but that's how they roll. Pedigree degrees are important in those fields.

In STEM fields, it doesn't matter that much. MIT, Stanford, Rice and Cornell probably open a few more doors. But for the most part, publics like UIUC, Michigan, Maryland, Purdue, Georgia Tech, Texas A&M and others do a much better job than the Ivies. An Ohio State or Wisconsin degree in engineering will be taken more seriously than one from Yale or Brown.

The benefit of going to a top name school is the networking. Harvard engineering might suck, but that's a very good network for a young grad to plug into. But a lot depends on the state you live in. In states like California, Michigan, or Virginia, it's almost always better to go to the state flagship schools. If you live in Oklahoma and you're ambitious it's probably best to leave the sate.

It is NOT about the school, it is about the network. You attend the University of Georgia and you know someone who is a member of the Augusta Country Club, where the Masters is annually held, you will have a much better opportunity than someone who attended Harvard but without connections. It all comes down to networking and who you know.

Lol.

If that’s how you think things work you better stay down in Bama and Atlanta.

lol, parental income is still a better predictor of success than the school attended

What does that have to do with the above claim that paying a fee or being a client of something gets some 22yo a job?
Banks, faangs, F500 companies have $100 millions of fees to various law firms, banks, advisories, and accountants flying around every year.
Only in podunk would that be a reason or thank you to hire some kid who needs tons of hand holding.

Nothing, nor does any of the quoted chain mention fee paying clients

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You post about your lacrosse team networking like every week.

If your brother BOTH went to Ivy, I doubt you are some rags to riches story off the back of hard work and sportsmanship.

I mean Lacrosse is already a rich sport, I know it’s not played in poorer communities and requires expensive equipment and large fields.

Lacrosse is NOT a rich sport, it is for MC folks. Tennis or golf is a sport for the rich. It costs money to play lacrosse but nowhere near the amount for golf or tennis. Golf costs around 40k/yr and tennis around 35k/yr.

- Signed by a parent with two kids that play golf and tennis.

Lacrosse is a team sport and pretty much every Ivy lacrosse player is recruited from a powerhouse private school (often boarding school) team. Nobody from outside a certain set of schools (same with Ivy hockey recruiting 5th year prep school players and Ivy crew recruiting from certain prep schools and private UK schools ). So lacrosse players build connections early on with each other in these high schools and getting recruited often requires the cost of private school education. It isn’t just about what you pay to play.

Lots of average private schools and great public schools on this list

https://gocrimson.com/sports/mens-lacrosse/roster

Damn, go DMV, we got some good lax programs and intelligent kids to dominate a roster like that.

It's a rich kid's sport, in this area is one of the richest few in the country.