More skills based grading at madison hs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This poster always shows up very quickly whenever Madison parents try to discuss SBG. She says she doesn’t care one way or another then keeps posting. Eventually she gets angry. It’s weird.

She probably views any criticism of SBG as an attack on Madison, her wonderful, very White school.

[Anonymous]

No, IMO, she's friends with the principal and/or she works there or used to work there, and wants to shut down conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

PP, that's nuts.

You should at least take the time to read the presentations, maybe even go to listen to the presentation in person. From what I see, it looks like it's about using the "growth mindset" IN THE CLASSROOM and in the grading process. The growth mindset encourages students to keep trying. It gives feedback and has the underpinning of "you can do this, but you haven't shown mastery YET." The old way of grading gave students one chance to show they mastered the material and then everyone moved on to the next topic. That process gives kids one chance and then it's like it doesn't matter if you never learned that topic well.

I really don't have too much stake in this fight b/c my last kid is almost done. But, when I learned more about SBG, it made a lot of sense to me. So, no, this has nothing to do with Madison having some good sports teams. It has everything to do with a new mindset in education: OUT = one-and-done topics/testing. IN= continually working to master skills/concepts by the end of the term/year.

No way this is a parent. This is the spin they say about SBG. Any teacher or parent with real experience knows this is how it is presented and not at all how it is IRL. - teacher and real parent

This. I’m a former FCPS teacher and SBG is terrible and it’s terribly implemented at jmhs.

[Anonymous]

It's a flawed system that is ruining most school systems that use it. There is no good way to implement it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, PP it doesn't work that way. Studious kids want to know what their grade is at all times and will do all the work. They don't appreciate having their grades changed so regularly. Kids who want to get out of work will see the practice grades don't mean anything and won't do the work. Human nature hasn't changed just because someone came up with a new grading concept.

Yes! And if more schools were implementing this there would be a giant uproar.

My child is at Irving MS (West Springfield feeder) and they are doing SBG in all classes this year and it's awful. I'm really hoping that WSHS isn't doing it too. My student is frustrated that he doesn't know where he stands with any of his grades. It gives the teacher way too much power to give the student the grade he/she "thinks they deserve" rather than basing it on metrics, test scores, homework, etc. Any grade can just be replaced up OR down.

All parents should be grateful to the parents piloting SBG who are speaking up and upset with the grading system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This poster always shows up very quickly whenever Madison parents try to discuss SBG. She says she doesn’t care one way or another then keeps posting. Eventually she gets angry. It’s weird.

And she doesn't have a kid affected in the future so why keep commenting? Let the parents with kids coming up and there now have a say. And the teachers staying too.

Well, my kid is affected now. So there's that.


I also don't see any "anger" in my post. Perhaps that's projection.

Also, personal attacks kind of reflect poorly on you all.

Not a friend of anyone in admin.

So it serms the anti SBG people just don't like anyone having an open mind about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, PP it doesn't work that way. Studious kids want to know what their grade is at all times and will do all the work. They don't appreciate having their grades changed so regularly. Kids who want to get out of work will see the practice grades don't mean anything and won't do the work. Human nature hasn't changed just because someone came up with a new grading concept.

Yes! And if more schools were implementing this there would be a giant uproar.

My child is at Irving MS (West Springfield feeder) and they are doing SBG in all classes this year and it's awful. I'm really hoping that WSHS isn't doing it too. My student is frustrated that he doesn't know where he stands with any of his grades. It gives the teacher way too much power to give the student the grade he/she "thinks they deserve" rather than basing it on metrics, test scores, homework, etc. Any grade can just be replaced up OR down.

All parents should be grateful to the parents piloting SBG who are speaking up and upset with the grading system.

Keep voting for the “progressive” candidates for School Board and you’ll get more of these new approaches to try and manufacture “equal outcomes for all.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This poster always shows up very quickly whenever Madison parents try to discuss SBG. She says she doesn’t care one way or another then keeps posting. Eventually she gets angry. It’s weird.

And she doesn't have a kid affected in the future so why keep commenting? Let the parents with kids coming up and there now have a say. And the teachers staying too.

Well, my kid is affected now. So there's that.


I also don't see any "anger" in my post. Perhaps that's projection.

Also, personal attacks kind of reflect poorly on you all.

Not a friend of anyone in admin.

So it serms the anti SBG people just don't like anyone having an open mind about it.

Its been in the school for over a year. What is there to be open minded about? It also has a history of really poor results from systems that have used it longer. The best you can say about it is that it did not affect your kid. That is not a positive. It's affecting many kids.

[Anonymous]

There is a presentation tonight at Madison with Rick Wormeli about SBG. How it will be a compelling presentation and you will see how great the grading is. You can download the presentation online and it’s crap. 100 slides trying to prove how this is a wonderful system. So now Madison has to pay for a speaker to convince the community SBG doesn’t suck. My kid is a student and it’s awful. Grades are good but they are always trying to understand where they stand, how things will change, what needs to be done with some teachers that just don’t have the bandwidth to help on this. I don’t blame the teachers. I blame all the FCPS administrators who not only add more to the teachers plates, but now students as well. Hey, high school can be stressful enough. Let’s bring in a new grading system that is so awesome and complex that we can stress you out more. And hey, if you are having a mental breakdown over it, we offer free online tutoring and mental health help to get you through it! Great job Madison!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unfortunately, PP it doesn't work that way. Studious kids want to know what their grade is at all times and will do all the work. They don't appreciate having their grades changed so regularly. Kids who want to get out of work will see the practice grades don't mean anything and won't do the work. Human nature hasn't changed just because someone came up with a new grading concept.

Yes! And if more schools were implementing this there would be a giant uproar.

My child is at Irving MS (West Springfield feeder) and they are doing SBG in all classes this year and it's awful. I'm really hoping that WSHS isn't doing it too. My student is frustrated that he doesn't know where he stands with any of his grades. It gives the teacher way too much power to give the student the grade he/she "thinks they deserve" rather than basing it on metrics, test scores, homework, etc. Any grade can just be replaced up OR down.

All parents should be grateful to the parents piloting SBG who are speaking up and upset with the grading system.

Keep voting for the “progressive” candidates for School Board and you’ll get more of these new approaches to try and manufacture “equal outcomes for all.”

Agree with this issue of current school board being a problem. But SBG has been around since the 1980s. Like bell bottoms it keeps cycling in and out of fashion. This time it will probably stick because it is tailor made to achieve equity if implemented poorly as it will no doubt be done in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Next year it’ll he back to regular grading. Chill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next year it’ll he back to regular grading. Chill.

Then why is there a presentation tonight?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Next year it’ll he back to regular grading. Chill.

that's what I thought last year. I contacted Reid's office and was told it will take years to get consistent grading in FCPS and that Madison had worked hard on this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Next year it’ll he back to regular grading. Chill.

Then why is there a presentation tonight?

Does anyone know if the PTSA is paying Rick Wormeli a speaker fee? If so, I'm glad I didn't give money to PTSA this year. I did last year and then they paid for SBG teacher training.

[Anonymous]

It's funny that he quotes that schools should be looking for the evidence of learning and not the instrument of it and yet standards-based learning is so much more convoluted than any previous grading practice. Not to mention it only measures assessments and not all of learning.