More skills based grading at madison hs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

PP, that's nuts.

You should at least take the time to read the presentations, maybe even go to listen to the presentation in person. From what I see, it looks like it's about using the "growth mindset" IN THE CLASSROOM and in the grading process. The growth mindset encourages students to keep trying. It gives feedback and has the underpinning of "you can do this, but you haven't shown mastery YET." The old way of grading gave students one chance to show they mastered the material and then everyone moved on to the next topic. That process gives kids one chance and then it's like it doesn't matter if you never learned that topic well.

I really don't have too much stake in this fight b/c my last kid is almost done. But, when I learned more about SBG, it made a lot of sense to me. So, no, this has nothing to do with Madison having some good sports teams. It has everything to do with a new mindset in education: OUT = one-and-done topics/testing. IN= continually working to master skills/concepts by the end of the term/year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

PP, that's nuts.

You should at least take the time to read the presentations, maybe even go to listen to the presentation in person. From what I see, it looks like it's about using the "growth mindset" IN THE CLASSROOM and in the grading process. The growth mindset encourages students to keep trying. It gives feedback and has the underpinning of "you can do this, but you haven't shown mastery YET." The old way of grading gave students one chance to show they mastered the material and then everyone moved on to the next topic. That process gives kids one chance and then it's like it doesn't matter if you never learned that topic well.

I really don't have too much stake in this fight b/c my last kid is almost done. But, when I learned more about SBG, it made a lot of sense to me. So, no, this has nothing to do with Madison having some good sports teams. It has everything to do with a new mindset in education: OUT = one-and-done topics/testing. IN= continually working to master skills/concepts by the end of the term/year.

I'm sure that's the spin.

[Anonymous]

Unfortunately, PP it doesn't work that way. Studious kids want to know what their grade is at all times and will do all the work. They don't appreciate having their grades changed so regularly. Kids who want to get out of work will see the practice grades don't mean anything and won't do the work. Human nature hasn't changed just because someone came up with a new grading concept.

[Anonymous]

I really don't have too much stake in this fight

Yeah, right.

[Anonymous]

SBG is a total nightmare for everyone. It doesn’t actually show mastery, adds a tremendous amount of work for teachers, and is a problem for families. It's a lose-lose situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

PP, that's nuts.

You should at least take the time to read the presentations, maybe even go to listen to the presentation in person. From what I see, it looks like it's about using the "growth mindset" IN THE CLASSROOM and in the grading process. The growth mindset encourages students to keep trying. It gives feedback and has the underpinning of "you can do this, but you haven't shown mastery YET." The old way of grading gave students one chance to show they mastered the material and then everyone moved on to the next topic. That process gives kids one chance and then it's like it doesn't matter if you never learned that topic well.

I really don't have too much stake in this fight b/c my last kid is almost done. But, when I learned more about SBG, it made a lot of sense to me. So, no, this has nothing to do with Madison having some good sports teams. It has everything to do with a new mindset in education: OUT = one-and-done topics/testing. IN= continually working to master skills/concepts by the end of the term/year.

No way this is a parent. This is the spin they say about SBG. Any teacher or parent with real experience knows this is how it is presented and not at all how it is IRL. - teacher and real parent

[Anonymous]

SBG is one of those things that’s sounds great in theory but where the theory breaks down if not practiced correctly.

Add in the desire to close the achievement gap and you have a recipe for disaster. As implanted SBG in FCPS adds work for already overburdened teachers, penalizes good students and provides less dedicated students to inflate their grades.

Parents, students and teachers have a reason to be concerned with how FCPS is implanting SBG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SBG is one of those things that’s sounds great in theory but where the theory breaks down if not practiced correctly.

Add in the desire to close the achievement gap and you have a recipe for disaster. As implanted SBG in FCPS adds work for already overburdened teachers, penalizes good students and provides less dedicated students to inflate their grades.

Parents, students and teachers have a reason to be concerned with how FCPS is implanting SBG.

This rings true to me. So often “the next great thing” turns out not to be so great after all.

[Anonymous]

It's not just that kids will want to get out of the work. I think they like doing work/will work hard when they know it counts. The quarter grade in one of DC's classes was based on 1 assessment in mid-September. And this teacher says a C is where you should be.

[Anonymous]

People have to vote with their feet and avoid Madison until FCPS cleans up the mess it (and Liz Calvert) created.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People have to vote with their feet and avoid Madison until FCPS cleans up the mess it (and Liz Calvert) created.

Madison has the highest percentage of White demographics in FCPS. It will continue to be a significant draw for families seeking that particular student body make-up, regardless of whatever grading policies exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From back to school night, the new skills-based grading policy is back, this time a tad draconian:
- only tests matter, no grade assigned for other class activities (essays, projects, homework, class participation). There may be some exceptions for their project-based cohort classes, not sure.
- no retakes.
- each class has a group of about 5 skills, and a current skill test may replace the grade in the immediately previous skill test if it is better.
- no more exceptions and accommodations for kids that have a 504/IEP plan incompatible with test taking

While last year's skills based implementation looked at where the kid was at the end of the year (averaged latest 3 skill-based tests), this year the entire year's average is taken, with the possibility to replace a grade once. Kids could recover nicely if they put in the work last year. Not so this year.

Importantly, teachers no longer have the option to use alternative ways to test skills -- only tests matter.

Thoughts?

Personally, I feel the new policy is no longer a skills-based grading policy, but a test-based one. Skills-based would mean reporting on where the student is at the time of the report, as measured holistically across the entirety of their work. This is not it.

Test-based means many snapshots of test performance throughout the school year, without any other input, averaged over the year. Works well for good test takers, leaves behind kids with attention deficit, dyslexia, anxiety, or simply poor test takers, at a time when even colleges and educators are moving away from test-based evaluations. I'm not sure why this seems like a good idea.

Any other FCPS HS schools following a similar policy? Marshall? Oakton?

Oh no, not again, I thought this horse was already beaten to death in the last Madison thread!

This SBG is a trivial distraction. Madison's real problem is that unlike other high schools in the area, parents are sports obsessed which results in watered down academics. But sports has always been central to Vienna and the results show it.

Youth sports culture is toxic in Vienna. Absolutely toxic.

I wonder if the emphasis on sports is one of the reasons why SBG this was piloted at Madison and not say Langley or McLean, where the parents might be more focused on academics?

I'm sure.

PP, that's nuts.

You should at least take the time to read the presentations, maybe even go to listen to the presentation in person. From what I see, it looks like it's about using the "growth mindset" IN THE CLASSROOM and in the grading process. The growth mindset encourages students to keep trying. It gives feedback and has the underpinning of "you can do this, but you haven't shown mastery YET." The old way of grading gave students one chance to show they mastered the material and then everyone moved on to the next topic. That process gives kids one chance and then it's like it doesn't matter if you never learned that topic well.

I really don't have too much stake in this fight b/c my last kid is almost done. But, when I learned more about SBG, it made a lot of sense to me. So, no, this has nothing to do with Madison having some good sports teams. It has everything to do with a new mindset in education: OUT = one-and-done topics/testing. IN= continually working to master skills/concepts by the end of the term/year.

No way this is a parent. This is the spin they say about SBG. Any teacher or parent with real experience knows this is how it is presented and not at all how it is IRL. - teacher and real parent

well...I am a parent ...a parent with an open mind. Whatever. The grading plan doesn't really bother me that much or even matter to me that much. I expect the grading policy to be publicized to my kid, and then I expect my kid to adapt to that. I think it makes sense that teaching involves trial and error, and correction and trial again. But, I don't get personally offended if they use the old way or the new way. It's just a way of doing grading, and it's not going to sink my kid's future one way or the other. I keep it in perspective.

[Anonymous]

This poster always shows up very quickly whenever Madison parents try to discuss SBG. She says she doesn’t care one way or another then keeps posting. Eventually she gets angry. It’s weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This poster always shows up very quickly whenever Madison parents try to discuss SBG. She says she doesn’t care one way or another then keeps posting. Eventually she gets angry. It’s weird.

And she doesn't have a kid affected in the future so why keep commenting? Let the parents with kids coming up and there now have a say. And the teachers staying too.