What happens if MCPS isn't staffed by the first day of school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

This.

In my daughter's private, there are many PhDs who are probably not certified. Those are excellent and very smart teachers who have high expectations of their students. This is how these kids excel.

I know someone who was just hired for a top high school to teach History. Hardly a subject matter expert at all and this is her first job out of college where she graduated with an education degree. She was NOT a good student and struggled in many subjects, including history!! I just don't see what she will add to the class. She has a nice personality and hopefully she will motivate students to study. It's going to be basically a memorization class.

My daughter's history teacher majored in history and has a deep passion for it. Not certified.

See the difference?

Anecdote does not equal data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I, a paraeducator -- and most of my para friends -- do have a teaching degree or other college degree. Sorry yours do not.

Many do not. It's not a job requirement. We have wonderful paras with and without degrees. Since it's not required, even the wonderful paras who takes great care of our kids and are attentive and hard working, are often not capable of filling the role of the teacher. They also don't get paid nearly enough for their own role let alone filling in for a position they didn't sign up for.

Being a para with a college degree, I find most of my job is about building relationships to help SN kids navigate school. It's not about the degree. Empathy is far more useful.

The learning behind the degree is very helpful. My degree is in a hard science with a lot of psych, and I'm a computer geek by trade. God help me to support English and History!

I despise classroom management. I routinely decline teacher sub requests. I'm all about supporting my kids.

You sound like a good para. Some are good. Some do as little as possible and mostly just sit on their phones

I'm an ES para. The paras on their phones are the young 20 year olds who grew up with a screen in their hand, they're good people, just incredibly addicted. And it's annoying because other people have to pick up their slack and they don't get reprimanded.

Most paras and wonderful and grossly underpaid. A few act their wage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

This.

In my daughter's private, there are many PhDs who are probably not certified. Those are excellent and very smart teachers who have high expectations of their students. This is how these kids excel.

I know someone who was just hired for a top high school to teach History. Hardly a subject matter expert at all and this is her first job out of college where she graduated with an education degree. She was NOT a good student and struggled in many subjects, including history!! I just don't see what she will add to the class. She has a nice personality and hopefully she will motivate students to study. It's going to be basically a memorization class.

My daughter's history teacher majored in history and has a deep passion for it. Not certified.

See the difference?

Anecdote does not equal data.

No, but they add up. Education professors are telling the kids majoring in education NOT to goninto teaching. Ask me how I know. There was also a news 4 report a few months back that stated the same (fewer going into teaching, amd those going in don't stay).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

This.

In my daughter's private, there are many PhDs who are probably not certified. Those are excellent and very smart teachers who have high expectations of their students. This is how these kids excel.

I know someone who was just hired for a top high school to teach History. Hardly a subject matter expert at all and this is her first job out of college where she graduated with an education degree. She was NOT a good student and struggled in many subjects, including history!! I just don't see what she will add to the class. She has a nice personality and hopefully she will motivate students to study. It's going to be basically a memorization class.

My daughter's history teacher majored in history and has a deep passion for it. Not certified.

See the difference?

Anecdote does not equal data.

No, but they add up. Education professors are telling the kids majoring in education NOT to goninto teaching. Ask me how I know. There was also a news 4 report a few months back that stated the same (fewer going into teaching, amd those going in don't stay).

No one is saying they have to be an education major. SO many MCPS teachers did NOT major in education. However, they are certified through alternative programs. This usually means teaching while taking education classes. So at least state certified teachers have SOME knowledge of pedagogy on top of having degrees in their area of expertise (that most are passionate about). I'd rather take that. It's like you're trying to convince the rest of us that private schools are worth it.

[Anonymous]

This was an interesting discussion until it became a fight about private school vs. public school. Perhaps the private school parents could start a new thread on this topic if they want rather than hijack this conversation.
We all know that private schools have many strengths. Do you really need to beat public school parents on the head with it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

This.

In my daughter's private, there are many PhDs who are probably not certified. Those are excellent and very smart teachers who have high expectations of their students. This is how these kids excel.

I know someone who was just hired for a top high school to teach History. Hardly a subject matter expert at all and this is her first job out of college where she graduated with an education degree. She was NOT a good student and struggled in many subjects, including history!! I just don't see what she will add to the class. She has a nice personality and hopefully she will motivate students to study. It's going to be basically a memorization class.

My daughter's history teacher majored in history and has a deep passion for it. Not certified.

See the difference?

Anecdote does not equal data.

No, but they add up. Education professors are telling the kids majoring in education NOT to goninto teaching. Ask me how I know. There was also a news 4 report a few months back that stated the same (fewer going into teaching, amd those going in don't stay).

As long as we're sharing anecdotes: My kid is double majoring in education and something else, at UMD, and nobody has told my kid not to go into teaching. My kid also went back to visit some teachers from their high school, earlier this summer, and said they were majoring in education, and the teachers were excited about it and did not tell my kid not to go into teaching.

And, actually, as long as we're sharing anecdotes, I think it's better for a school to hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college [sic] with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced [in what?] subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college [sic]/excellent program. There are a lot of people with Ph.D.s from fancy universities who don't have the faintest idea how to teach college students, let alone secondary or elementary school students. Especially in math (my kid's special interest). Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

I never try to dissuade kids when they tell me they are majoring in education and unless they actually ask me for my opinion. None of them do. Most of them are too far into it to switch anyway. Some of them do change majors but that means they won’t graduate in four years. Most parents are not okay with the five year plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

This.

In my daughter's private, there are many PhDs who are probably not certified. Those are excellent and very smart teachers who have high expectations of their students. This is how these kids excel.

I know someone who was just hired for a top high school to teach History. Hardly a subject matter expert at all and this is her first job out of college where she graduated with an education degree. She was NOT a good student and struggled in many subjects, including history!! I just don't see what she will add to the class. She has a nice personality and hopefully she will motivate students to study. It's going to be basically a memorization class.

My daughter's history teacher majored in history and has a deep passion for it. Not certified.

See the difference?

Anecdote does not equal data.

No, but they add up. Education professors are telling the kids majoring in education NOT to goninto teaching. Ask me how I know. There was also a news 4 report a few months back that stated the same (fewer going into teaching, amd those going in don't stay).

I am good friends with the education department chair at a college near to my home. She has asked me a number of times to come and teach undergrads. I have had to say no each time. I just can't recommend or be a part of helping young people towards this profession. I have dissuaded several of my kids' friends from teaching.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When public schools have the luxury of ensuring every teacher is fully credentialed (ie not right now) that qualification/certification process is very narrow. They’d sooner hire a certified teacher who graduated from a mediocre college with meh grades than an uncertified but experienced subject-matter expert with multiple degrees but no certification who graduated from a top college/excellent program. I’m not saying grads of top colleges don’t teach in public, but as someone who has taught in both, I don’t believe that being certified equates to higher-quality teaching. Also, I’m the same exact person in both settings yet would argue that I’m a better teacher in private settings because I am less constrained by one-size-fits-all mandates and can be more creative. Also, I earn the same in private that I earned in public, so be wary of sweeping generalizations. And for what it’s worth, I don’t believe private school is better than public or vice versa. Different choices are better for different kids; different schools have different strengths and weaknesses; and even within the same school, the instructional quality can vary greatly.

As someone who just left a 20+ year career in public for a private school, I can confirm that my salary is comparable in my private school. However, my overall pay is significantly less. Health insurance costs way more, I get many fewer sick days, and then there's the fact that there's no pension at the private school. If you don't get a pension at your private school you are absolutely making significantly less than your public school peers.

[Anonymous]

My mom was a special ed teacher and saw the writing on the wall years ago. When I wanted to go into special education she said I should become a specialist like an OT or Speech because they have more options. So, I did. Very happy with my choice. I do much better working with small groups. I have much admiration for teachers, I don't think I would have been cut out to be one.

[Anonymous]

Many subject experts struggle mightily to manage a classroom or recognize different learning styles. Some of my kids' worst teachers fell into this category.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am seeing 432 open teaching positions including long term subs. Last year was pretty similar, and the number dropped to about 250 by the start of the school year.

There's only 286 1.0 FTE (which eliminates the substitutes).
150 ES
78 MS
48 HS
10 other
This is a lot better than last year at this time.

But how many positions have been "filled" with long term subs?? I assure you, it is many

I am seeing a lot of full-time full-year long term sub positions. That means the department chairs are giving up on finding a teacher and are hoping for a long term sub instead either to just fill a slot or to not get stuck with a dud teacher.

[Anonymous]

I let kids know that if you want to become a teacher you will be attacked on the job regularly and the principals will blame the victim, further bully them if they run their mouths, and move to fire the teacher who sees how the schools are run. It's just not worth it. The schools are too corrupt and mismanaged to allow for healthy careers.

[Anonymous]

Long term subs are easy to manipulate from an admin standpoint bc they have no training, are not expected to teach, and admin can just tell them to do whatever and they have to do it despite learning goals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s use common sense. If a school has 5 kindergarten classes and only four teachers, then they break up the class with no teacher and disperse those students. So, your class of 25 may end up being a class of 30. If a school has 4 kindergarten classrooms and 3 teachers but they have an interventionist for reading then that interventionist will continue their pay but be put back in the classroom. In other words, it’s a game of moving things around. What else are they going to do, deny your child entry?

Doesn't that violate state law on class sizes?

There is no Maryland state law that dictates class sizes.
And even if they were.... what exactly is the alternative? You can't force people to come teach. So your choice is to do what they are doing - make class sizes bigger, pull in other staff to supervise, etc. or...
Hire literally any warm body off the street. We're almost there, but not quite. And I'd rather my kid in a larger class with a real teacher than a smaller class with, for example, a Veteran without a college degree like Florida discussed doing.