APS: Washington Liberty will be minimum 2700 students by 2025

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why everyone seems to want their kid to go to WL but then complains about the large size. There is a disconnect there.

They want someone else to leave. It is tough because elementary has many equivalent schools, but the difference between the 3 high schools is stark.

Is it really? My kids are not in HS yet but our neighbors go to Wakefield and they absolutely love it! I know that WL is the only one that has IB, but seems like a small number of kids do the full program. So what is so much better about WL, especially when it will be so large?

It’s not just the IB. It’s having critical mass of kids to take the top tier advanced classes in AP as well. Wakefield doesn’t run all the offerings in the course guide. Not by a long shot. WL and Yorktown run any more of them because they have plenty of kids who want those classes. WL and Yorktown are still very different schools themselves. But the salient difference between Wakefield and WL is large numbers of super motivated advanced learners. You can get a fine education at Wakefield by any measure. But it’s not comparable to WL.

What kinds of classes does Wakefield not offer? Things like AP biology & AP chemistry? Advanced math? Something else?
I know that none of the high schools run everything in the course guide every year.

How can a parent or student in MS find out which courses in the guide are or have not run in the different schools from year to year?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A fine education means that you’ll have a decent selection of advanced and specialized courses. But not as many as the other schools because there are MORE advanced/highly motivated kids enrolling in those courses at WL and Yorktown. That’s not implying anything about anyone at Wakefield. That’s just a fact. Plenty of very smart motivated kids of all backgrounds at Wakefield. But fewer than the other two schools. Because of poverty and more recent immigration and also just the more chill perspective of parents who chose to live in S. Arl. That’s just reality. I agree it’s and product of Arlington’s housing policies.

Oh my. What "advanced and specialized courses" are offered at other APS high schools that aren't offered at Wakefield? Or do you mean there aren't as many sections of AP classes at Wakefield? I'm genuinely curious. I am a Wakefield parent and am aware of only one AP class within the past few years that didn't make minimum enrollment. It was Physics C, which I believe is Calculus-based versus the other AP Physics class. Students were offered a dual enrollment option instead of the AP class running at Wakefield.

The suggestion here that Wakefield doesn't provide similar AP classes offerings to other APS high schools doesn't match our students' experience at all. The AP Capstone program and the Spanish immersion program mean that a Wakefield student's AP experiences may differ slightly than students at other APS high schools.

We aren't aware of any AP classes that "often don't run" at Wakefield. My students are on track to graduate with 10-12 AP classes, and that's typical for their peers and the other Wakefield students we know.

Thank you! It is helpful to hear from a Wakefield parent vs other people speculating.

Ditto the thank you. I'm a WHS parent of two. One who is what the PPP would consider not highly-motivated, despite being very bright and highly capable - just not "scholarly"; and the other who is what I will presume the PPP would consider merely "a motivated good student" getting almost straight A's taking intensified and selective AP courses according to their interests, personal goals, and self-determined desired level of stress and time management, while devoting a lot of time and energy to leadership roles and extracurricular opportunities in their chosen activities. One will pursue what PPP might classify as an inferior - or less ambitious/less motivated - college pathway. The other will probably end up applying to a number of what PPP might classify as "fine" middle ground colleges, not being even interested in excessively expensive ivies or other 'elite' institutions.

I think people have different visions and definitions of "highly motivated." I would differentiate ambition from motivation. Of course, ambition can be relative to individual situations, too.

BTW, YHS is to begin offering the AP Capstone program that has been in place at Wakefield for years.

May I ask how the Capstone program is relevant if it is only for 15 out of 2300+ students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why everyone seems to want their kid to go to WL but then complains about the large size. There is a disconnect there.

They want someone else to leave. It is tough because elementary has many equivalent schools, but the difference between the 3 high schools is stark.

Is it really? My kids are not in HS yet but our neighbors go to Wakefield and they absolutely love it! I know that WL is the only one that has IB, but seems like a small number of kids do the full program. So what is so much better about WL, especially when it will be so large?

It’s not just the IB. It’s having critical mass of kids to take the top tier advanced classes in AP as well. Wakefield doesn’t run all the offerings in the course guide. Not by a long shot. WL and Yorktown run any more of them because they have plenty of kids who want those classes. WL and Yorktown are still very different schools themselves. But the salient difference between Wakefield and WL is large numbers of super motivated advanced learners. You can get a fine education at Wakefield by any measure. But it’s not comparable to WL.

What kinds of classes does Wakefield not offer? Things like AP biology & AP chemistry? Advanced math? Something else?
I know that none of the high schools run everything in the course guide every year.

How can a parent or student in MS find out which courses in the guide are or have not run in the different schools from year to year?

I have 2 kids at W&L, and I have never heard about classes not being actually offered that are in the Program of Studies. Maybe others have. I'm attaching the link. Courses listed through page 76 are at all high schools, page 107-115 are courses just offered at Wakefield, followed by the other high schools. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites...ES-FINAL-2023-24.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why everyone seems to want their kid to go to WL but then complains about the large size. There is a disconnect there.

They want someone else to leave. It is tough because elementary has many equivalent schools, but the difference between the 3 high schools is stark.

Is it really? My kids are not in HS yet but our neighbors go to Wakefield and they absolutely love it! I know that WL is the only one that has IB, but seems like a small number of kids do the full program. So what is so much better about WL, especially when it will be so large?

It’s not just the IB. It’s having critical mass of kids to take the top tier advanced classes in AP as well. Wakefield doesn’t run all the offerings in the course guide. Not by a long shot. WL and Yorktown run any more of them because they have plenty of kids who want those classes. WL and Yorktown are still very different schools themselves. But the salient difference between Wakefield and WL is large numbers of super motivated advanced learners. You can get a fine education at Wakefield by any measure. But it’s not comparable to WL.

What kinds of classes does Wakefield not offer? Things like AP biology & AP chemistry? Advanced math? Something else?
I know that none of the high schools run everything in the course guide every year.

How can a parent or student in MS find out which courses in the guide are or have not run in the different schools from year to year?

I have 2 kids at W&L, and I have never heard about classes not being actually offered that are in the Program of Studies. Maybe others have. I'm attaching the link. Courses listed through page 76 are at all high schools, page 107-115 are courses just offered at Wakefield, followed by the other high schools. https://www.apsva.us/wp-content/uploads/sites...ES-FINAL-2023-24.pdf

This is what a Wakefield parent I know (kid is a rising senior) told me as well— hadn’t actually heard of classes not being offered. I can imagine there may be a few not offered at each school in a given year…. maybe the more obscure/less mainstream courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A fine education means that you’ll have a decent selection of advanced and specialized courses. But not as many as the other schools because there are MORE advanced/highly motivated kids enrolling in those courses at WL and Yorktown. That’s not implying anything about anyone at Wakefield. That’s just a fact. Plenty of very smart motivated kids of all backgrounds at Wakefield. But fewer than the other two schools. Because of poverty and more recent immigration and also just the more chill perspective of parents who chose to live in S. Arl. That’s just reality. I agree it’s and product of Arlington’s housing policies.

Oh my. What "advanced and specialized courses" are offered at other APS high schools that aren't offered at Wakefield? Or do you mean there aren't as many sections of AP classes at Wakefield? I'm genuinely curious. I am a Wakefield parent and am aware of only one AP class within the past few years that didn't make minimum enrollment. It was Physics C, which I believe is Calculus-based versus the other AP Physics class. Students were offered a dual enrollment option instead of the AP class running at Wakefield.

The suggestion here that Wakefield doesn't provide similar AP classes offerings to other APS high schools doesn't match our students' experience at all. The AP Capstone program and the Spanish immersion program mean that a Wakefield student's AP experiences may differ slightly than students at other APS high schools.

We aren't aware of any AP classes that "often don't run" at Wakefield. My students are on track to graduate with 10-12 AP classes, and that's typical for their peers and the other Wakefield students we know.

Thank you! It is helpful to hear from a Wakefield parent vs other people speculating.

Ditto the thank you. I'm a WHS parent of two. One who is what the PPP would consider not highly-motivated, despite being very bright and highly capable - just not "scholarly"; and the other who is what I will presume the PPP would consider merely "a motivated good student" getting almost straight A's taking intensified and selective AP courses according to their interests, personal goals, and self-determined desired level of stress and time management, while devoting a lot of time and energy to leadership roles and extracurricular opportunities in their chosen activities. One will pursue what PPP might classify as an inferior - or less ambitious/less motivated - college pathway. The other will probably end up applying to a number of what PPP might classify as "fine" middle ground colleges, not being even interested in excessively expensive ivies or other 'elite' institutions.

I think people have different visions and definitions of "highly motivated." I would differentiate ambition from motivation. Of course, ambition can be relative to individual situations, too.

BTW, YHS is to begin offering the AP Capstone program that has been in place at Wakefield for years.

May I ask how the Capstone program is relevant if it is only for 15 out of 2300+ students?

Not really sure where your question comes from. I mentioned WHS' Capstone program because it is one of the differences in the AP offerings among the various high schools. And I was pointing out that it will no longer be a difference because it will also be offered at YHS.

I also don't know what you mean that it's only relevant for 15 out of 2300+ students.

[Anonymous]

My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

Sure but midwestern campus would have cheap and ample land for right size buildings and field space. And sure, 2400 is the schools current size, but 2700 is the future, likely eventually 3000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

So only the poor kids buying or using FARM have to suffer the small cafeteria — rich kids can pop over to Rocklands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. W&L has been built for 2700. That’s been the plan for years. It will be bigger than the other high schools by quite a bit. This is a consequence of no one wanting to be moved out of that district and no one wanting to truly address the need for a high school.

So replicating TC Williams model and success?

TC williams is 5000 students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

So only the poor kids buying or using FARM have to suffer the small cafeteria — rich kids can pop over to Rocklands.

Open campus lunch is an APS policy for upperclassmen. It’s been that way for over 50 years. Same for public schools with similar socio-economic diversity in Montgomery County and DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. W&L has been built for 2700. That’s been the plan for years. It will be bigger than the other high schools by quite a bit. This is a consequence of no one wanting to be moved out of that district and no one wanting to truly address the need for a high school.

So replicating TC Williams model and success?

TC williams is 5000 students.

When W-L was 4000 students it was the top high school in the country tied with a school north of Chicago (back in the 50s and 60s). There are no plans to make W-L larger than the 2700. But significant boundary changes will likely be needed to account for the unrelenting growth in South Arlington. APS is planning boundary changes for high schools, but likely without public engagement, a new post pandemic norm that may actually streamline the process. Living across the street from W-L may no longer guarantee that’s your neighborhood high school. That really applies to any school, because the residential growth patterns are so uneven in the county. The Yorktown boundary will likely grow right up against W-L’s literal doorstep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

So only the poor kids buying or using FARM have to suffer the small cafeteria — rich kids can pop over to Rocklands.

Relatively few students eat in the actually cafeteria when they can eat most anywhere on campus and many study in the library. This isn’t the 1950s with mean librarians and staff that prevent students from leaving the cafeteria. No schools today operate that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

So only the poor kids buying or using FARM have to suffer the small cafeteria — rich kids can pop over to Rocklands.

Both my kids buy lunch everyday, as do their friends. The food is pretty good. They have told me a couple of their friends pay less than they do. No big deal. Your comments aren't reflective of how it is there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Midwestern high school in the 90's had 2,400 kids and it was fine. 2,700 is big but not ridiculous. Nobody wants to move out of W-L because they think Yorktown is too rich/white and Wakefield is too poor/brown. So this is what you get.

OP was asking about common spaces, and if they can properly serve the population. The gym and auditorium are the largest of the three high schools and built to old specifications for larger sized schools. (The current ed specs call for smaller common spaces.) The cafeteria is large but students are not limited to the cafeteria at lunch, and can eat/study/socialize many places on campus. Seniors can leave campus. The new classroom building by the planetarium also has large furnished indoor and outdoor common spaces not programmed for any specific use. Students can eat there as well.

So only the poor kids buying or using FARM have to suffer the small cafeteria — rich kids can pop over to Rocklands.

Both my kids buy lunch everyday, as do their friends. The food is pretty good. They have told me a couple of their friends pay less than they do. No big deal. Your comments aren't reflective of how it is there.

Exactly. Some kids walk to the convenience stores or fast food options in Ballston. Lunch periods aren’t as long as they used to be, so a leisurely lunch at the Langston Blvd McDonlads or Taco Bell isn’t as common. Students of all backgrounds buy the cafeteria food. Also, the W-L cafeteria is quite large (larger than the other high schools’ cafeterias) and it never fills to capacity since students eat all around the campus.