Does applying early decision completely remove you from consideration for merit aid?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

A lot of "merit" aid is not really "merit" based though - it's a discount given to a lot of full paying students because they need to attract them to attend. Most schools need at least some kids paying 50k+ to attend. They have no "fiduciary responsibility" to their applicants. They need to compose a class where there are at least some kids paying higher rates, thus being need bling but accepting 50+% of the class ED with minimal merit aid.

I get that. But it just seems people aren’t willing to define terms in these statements. If you need to shop merit, it doesn’t really apply to the category of school where everyone gets a coupon. One a school like that, no one needs the ED boost. Further id think any direct conversation with such a school would go well. I see you give out a lot of merit aid, if we want that can we apply ED? I think the school would give a pre-read and re assure the family. Such a school wants them even if it isn’t hooking a full pay

Have you been through this process? You seem hellbent on the idea that ED doesn’t affect merit aid, when everyone knows it does. That’s the inherent injustice/privilege at the heart of ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: The lure of the possibility of having the decision over and done with is strong, but I worry that then the college has no reason to offer merit aid.

Effectively.
That is why I continue to believe ED has a discriminatory impact on many under represented minorities. ED should be abolished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

A lot of "merit" aid is not really "merit" based though - it's a discount given to a lot of full paying students because they need to attract them to attend. Most schools need at least some kids paying 50k+ to attend. They have no "fiduciary responsibility" to their applicants. They need to compose a class where there are at least some kids paying higher rates, thus being need bling but accepting 50+% of the class ED with minimal merit aid.

I get that. But it just seems people aren’t willing to define terms in these statements. If you need to shop merit, it doesn’t really apply to the category of school where everyone gets a coupon. One a school like that, no one needs the ED boost. Further id think any direct conversation with such a school would go well. I see you give out a lot of merit aid, if we want that can we apply ED? I think the school would give a pre-read and re assure the family. Such a school wants them even if it isn’t hooking a full pay

Have you been through this process? You seem hellbent on the idea that ED doesn’t affect merit aid, when everyone knows it does. That’s the inherent injustice/privilege at the heart of ED.

Yes, and had no problem with DC applying ED. Obviously it is never for anyone who wants to consider multiple options, but beyond that I think the disadvantage is overstated. Exactly OP's question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

There is nothing in the way of standards to suggest that schools have any responsibility to applicants to be fair, much less take fiduciary responsibility. Nothing whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

The main schools it doesn't effect are Duke and UPenn. We knew a super smart and qualified kid who ED'ed to Duke, got accepted, and was invited to interview for one of their merit scholarships. We know another who got into the Huntsman Program at UPenn through early decision.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Merit aid is generally speaking a carrot to attract top students in the RD round. There is no incentive to give merit aid to an ED student bc ofc it is binding. That is why you should not apply ED if you are hoping for merit aid. Not everywhere always, but generally speaking - you do not receive merit aid if you apply ED.

+1

While it is possible to get merit aid from some schools in ED (typically lower tiered schools), the thought process should be---if you are applying ED, you want to come and it's binding, so why does the school need to "attract you with dangling merit aid". They already know you want to attend, so while they might give some merit aide, it seems logical that they will give more to EA/RD students as a way to attract top students in that round.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Of course the college has no incentive to offer merit aid to early decision applicants.
As an applicant in the early decision process, you are committed knowing that you will accept whatever financial aid package the college will offer. This is why ED is so advantageous to wealthy families and so unfair to students who need to compare financial aid awards from different colleges.

And unfair to high-stats student who need merit aid (but can't pay full price or qualify for FA).

We get it, ED is not fair to everyone. Life isn't fair. It isn't fair that the MC kid from XYZ cannot afford expensive test prep to raise their scores, that they can't afford to do expensive ECs or have tutors when struggling to get an A in an AP course, etc.

But in reality, ED is not the huge advantage most think it is. At the T25 schools, much of ED acceptances are kids who would get in anyhow due to a specific skill the university is targeting---athletes, kids of high donors, legacy, hooked students, really standout students who were going to get in in RD anyhow due to their pointy academic or EC activities, etc. For the regular high stats, unhooked kid, ED is only a slight advantage. If you can afford it, you use it.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Why would a college give you merit aid if you are applying ED? What incentive do they have to lure with aid?

So you're talking about schools where merit aid is handed out to students they like, not based on merit in any verifiable way?

That's what "merit" is. It's "market" price for a student who adds value to the school and is letting schools compete.

Except it's not capricious, the schools at least give lip service to how merit is awarded. If it's a formula based on stats, the details are published, and are applied to all applicants. If it's a competitive scholarship, they will still say all applicants are considered. Now do they use the ED round to find students who aren't competitive for scholarships? Possibly, that's certainly what families are hoping for when they say there's an admission boost with ED. And you are committing with or whether or not merit pans out. But it's still a step further to say ED applicants are precluded from merit. Are there examples of schools that explicitly state this?

None of them will state this.

I have not seen this in writing, but at the info sessions at both U. Rochester and WashU St. Louis, the admissions officers said that if you need merit money in order to attend, you should not apply ED.

Odd statement from admissions officers as ED applicants can apply for need based financial aid. The admissions officers should have advised such applicants to apply for need based financial aid even if applying ED.

If an applicant applies ED but does not seek need based financial aid, then the desire for merit scholarship money is essentially a preference, not a need, therefore closing the universally accepted out of an ED acceptance.

"the admissions officers said that if you need merit money in order to attend, you should not apply ED"

The above is about merit scholarship funds, not financial aid. For many people, merit money is not a preference, it is a need. You don't get to decide what people want vs. what they need.

" You don't get to decide what people want vs. what they need." What exactly do you mean by that? Yes, if someone needs merit in order to attend, then they should NOT do ED. They must do EA/RD in order to have an "out". That's how ED works. You can only opt out for FA needs---if FAFSA says you would be full pay and you know you cannot do that, then you should not apply ED. Yes, it sucks, but it's part of the process.
There are plenty of schools that offer merit---if you need it, you can find it, just a apply 1-2 Tiers below where your kid's stats put them. A top academic kid who is well rounded (Think 1500+/3.9+UW/8+APs) can apply to many schools in the 30-120 range and get merit (think private school as they offer more merit than most public schools, but some OOS publics will give you merit to essentially be "instate") If you want a full ride go in the 80-120+ range, and you can find it.
So yes, you might not attend an "elite" college with merit, but merit is out there. And it's your choice to make where you go---you can make it affordable if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The lure of the possibility of having the decision over and done with is strong, but I worry that then the college has no reason to offer merit aid.

Effectively.
That is why I continue to believe ED has a discriminatory impact on many under represented minorities. ED should be abolished.

No, most "under represented minorities" are also getting significant FA (if they are full pay, then they are not really under represented), so they can safely apply ED and reject it if their need is not met.

ED will not go away. Life is not fair, nobody ever said the college application process would be 100% fair. It's a tool, you can choose to use it if it suits you. If not, nobody is stopping you from applying EA/RD.

[Anonymous]

Just seems like most schools have statements like this:

Macalester offers scholarships that are based on academic merit. All applicants for admission to Macalester are automatically considered for these awards.

Any examples of schools that explicitly exclude ED, or weasel word it somehow?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

Perhaps you need to hear the incredulousness with which she said it, as if the very idea that cost could be an issue for anyone was impossible. What it says about me is my bullshit detector is functional, and what it says about her is she’s a bullshitter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

Perhaps you need to hear the incredulousness with which she said it, as if the very idea that cost could be an issue for anyone was impossible. What it says about me is my bullshit detector is functional, and what it says about her is she’s a bullshitter.

DP. This Chicago's language re merit scholarships:

All first-year applicants are automatically considered for all available merit scholarships; no additional merit scholarship application is required. Transfer students are not eligible for merit-based scholarships. Scholarship winners will receive notification of their awards on a rolling basis through the end of April. Please note that only scholarship winners are notified.

[Anonymous]

Trying to make sense of this:

Rich/wealthy people who can afford 50k-90k/year for college but who want merit awards shouldn't apply ED if they can't or don't want to pay full amount, i.e., you can't withdraw app if admitted if FAFSA (and NPC) says you can afford full pay.

MC and lower who need financial assistance may safely apply ED because if accepted and COA falls above what they can reasonably afford to pay per FAFSA (and possibly NPC), they may withdraw app. Should check with individuals school's FA or admissions offices before applying ED to make sure this is the case.

MC and lower kids with high stats who are accepted to certain schools (need-blind? or those that guarantee to meet financial need?) could get financial aid or merit award, but probably not both?

High stats kids (of any SES) should not apply ED to lower tier privates that give out merit like candy.

Correct or off base?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Trying to make sense of this:

Rich/wealthy people who can afford 50k-90k/year for college but who want merit awards shouldn't apply ED if they can't or don't want to pay full amount, i.e., you can't withdraw app if admitted if FAFSA (and NPC) says you can afford full pay.

MC and lower who need financial assistance may safely apply ED because if accepted and COA falls above what they can reasonably afford to pay per FAFSA (and possibly NPC), they may withdraw app. Should check with individuals school's FA or admissions offices before applying ED to make sure this is the case.

MC and lower kids with high stats who are accepted to certain schools (need-blind? or those that guarantee to meet financial need?) could get financial aid or merit award, but probably not both?

High stats kids (of any SES) should not apply ED to lower tier privates that give out merit like candy.

Correct or off base?

Essentially. The key number is going to be the school's NPC, if they don't meet that you have an out. You may as well direct any and all questions to the school directly, since for ED you're dealing with a single school. This is exactly the approach we took and were comfortable with. A merit award will have no effect if it's not lower than need, but in that case, it's still a cap on potential cost should family income increase over the time in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trying to make sense of this:

Rich/wealthy people who can afford 50k-90k/year for college but who want merit awards shouldn't apply ED if they can't or don't want to pay full amount, i.e., you can't withdraw app if admitted if FAFSA (and NPC) says you can afford full pay.

MC and lower who need financial assistance may safely apply ED because if accepted and COA falls above what they can reasonably afford to pay per FAFSA (and possibly NPC), they may withdraw app. Should check with individuals school's FA or admissions offices before applying ED to make sure this is the case.

MC and lower kids with high stats who are accepted to certain schools (need-blind? or those that guarantee to meet financial need?) could get financial aid or merit award, but probably not both?

High stats kids (of any SES) should not apply ED to lower tier privates that give out merit like candy.

Correct or off base?

Essentially. The key number is going to be the school's NPC, if they don't meet that you have an out. You may as well direct any and all questions to the school directly, since for ED you're dealing with a single school. This is exactly the approach we took and were comfortable with. A merit award will have no effect if it's not lower than need, but in that case, it's still a cap on potential cost should family income increase over the time in school.

Thanks. And I was not aware of the bolded part, so that's helpful.