Does applying early decision completely remove you from consideration for merit aid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would a college give you merit aid if you are applying ED? What incentive do they have to lure with aid?

So you're talking about schools where merit aid is handed out to students they like, not based on merit in any verifiable way?

That's what "merit" is. It's "market" price for a student who adds value to the school and is letting schools compete.

Except it's not capricious, the schools at least give lip service to how merit is awarded. If it's a formula based on stats, the details are published, and are applied to all applicants. If it's a competitive scholarship, they will still say all applicants are considered. Now do they use the ED round to find students who aren't competitive for scholarships? Possibly, that's certainly what families are hoping for when they say there's an admission boost with ED. And you are committing with or whether or not merit pans out. But it's still a step further to say ED applicants are precluded from merit. Are there examples of schools that explicitly state this?

None of them will state this.

So, the question is where’s the proof? There are certainly schools that explicitly state they don’t do this. There are students who do get merit aid during ED. I get why parents think this, but I don’t really see evidence it’s true. I’d think eliminating a class of students from scholarship consideration would be asking for trouble, unless the ED contract some how disclosed this.

Right, and there are strong students who do not get merit aid during ED. If they need merit money to attend, then if they are accepted they are obligated to attend at full price, whether or not their family can afford it.

That's an unacceptable risk for most families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

A universally accepted reason for opting out of an ED acceptance is lack of affordability.

Yes, if the *financial aid* is insufficient and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result, then you can get out of your ED commitment.

Merit aid however is a different animal. If you don't get the merit aid you hoped for, that does not permit you to opt out of the ED acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would a college give you merit aid if you are applying ED? What incentive do they have to lure with aid?

So you're talking about schools where merit aid is handed out to students they like, not based on merit in any verifiable way?

That's what "merit" is. It's "market" price for a student who adds value to the school and is letting schools compete.

Except it's not capricious, the schools at least give lip service to how merit is awarded. If it's a formula based on stats, the details are published, and are applied to all applicants. If it's a competitive scholarship, they will still say all applicants are considered. Now do they use the ED round to find students who aren't competitive for scholarships? Possibly, that's certainly what families are hoping for when they say there's an admission boost with ED. And you are committing with or whether or not merit pans out. But it's still a step further to say ED applicants are precluded from merit. Are there examples of schools that explicitly state this?

None of them will state this.

I have not seen this in writing, but at the info sessions at both U. Rochester and WashU St. Louis, the admissions officers said that if you need merit money in order to attend, you should not apply ED.

Odd statement from admissions officers as ED applicants can apply for need based financial aid. The admissions officers should have advised such applicants to apply for need based financial aid even if applying ED.

If an applicant applies ED but does not seek need based financial aid, then the desire for merit scholarship money is essentially a preference, not a need, therefore closing the universally accepted out of an ED acceptance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

A universally accepted reason for opting out of an ED acceptance is lack of affordability.

Yes, if the *financial aid* is insufficient and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result, then you can get out of your ED commitment.

Merit aid however is a different animal. If you don't get the merit aid you hoped for, that does not permit you to opt out of the ED acceptance.

I wrote the post that you quoted. Your response is not quite accurate.

The school's Net Price Calculator is not a guarantee and the NPC is not a decisive guideline regarding affordability for any particular family. So, if the above post deleted "and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result", it would be correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why would a college give you merit aid if you are applying ED? What incentive do they have to lure with aid?

So you're talking about schools where merit aid is handed out to students they like, not based on merit in any verifiable way?

That's what "merit" is. It's "market" price for a student who adds value to the school and is letting schools compete.

Except it's not capricious, the schools at least give lip service to how merit is awarded. If it's a formula based on stats, the details are published, and are applied to all applicants. If it's a competitive scholarship, they will still say all applicants are considered. Now do they use the ED round to find students who aren't competitive for scholarships? Possibly, that's certainly what families are hoping for when they say there's an admission boost with ED. And you are committing with or whether or not merit pans out. But it's still a step further to say ED applicants are precluded from merit. Are there examples of schools that explicitly state this?

None of them will state this.

I have not seen this in writing, but at the info sessions at both U. Rochester and WashU St. Louis, the admissions officers said that if you need merit money in order to attend, you should not apply ED.

Odd statement from admissions officers as ED applicants can apply for need based financial aid. The admissions officers should have advised such applicants to apply for need based financial aid even if applying ED.

If an applicant applies ED but does not seek need based financial aid, then the desire for merit scholarship money is essentially a preference, not a need, therefore closing the universally accepted out of an ED acceptance.

"the admissions officers said that if you need merit money in order to attend, you should not apply ED"

The above is about merit scholarship funds, not financial aid. For many people, merit money is not a preference, it is a need. You don't get to decide what people want vs. what they need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

A universally accepted reason for opting out of an ED acceptance is lack of affordability.

Yes, if the *financial aid* is insufficient and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result, then you can get out of your ED commitment.

Merit aid however is a different animal. If you don't get the merit aid you hoped for, that does not permit you to opt out of the ED acceptance.

I wrote the post that you quoted. Your response is not quite accurate.

The school's Net Price Calculator is not a guarantee and the NPC is not a decisive guideline regarding affordability for any particular family. So, if the above post deleted "and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result", it would be correct.

NP here. My understanding is that it f you do not get the need based aid you are qualified for, you can decline the offer of acceptance. Not merit. The reality is that many families can’t pay what they “should” be able to pay under the formulas as rely on merit. Running the NPC gives you an estimate. If you screenshot it and they don’t meet it, you are easily out of the agreement. Without that, it’s hard (but not impossible) to make the argument that you can’t afford it based on your financial status as demonstrated by your FAFSA.

Practically speaking, they need an objective measure and the FAFSA gives them that, although there are many reasons a family can’t afford why they “should” be able to afford. You would have to argue those to get out of the contract and may or may not succeed.

IMO, it’s dangerous to ED if you can’t meet the amount in the NPC. Merit would be a bonus (and likely only at less selective schools).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I worry about this, too, as DS has started talking about applying to a reach school ED. I asked about merit aid and ED on a recent visit to U of Chicago and the admissions counselor claimed to have no idea/no information about how merit aid varied by decision pool, or averages across ED/RD. Also, she said she had never heard of anyone having to turn down an ED offer because of cost. I think my eyes about rolled out of my head when she said that.
I feel like ED is something of a scam by schools to get as many kids in full pay as possible, making it easier to meet their lofty goals of meeting 100% of financial need. Anyway, no good answer for you, OP, but the very same question keeps me up at night.

Likely she was thinking that people understand that when applying ED, you are making a binding commitment, and need to be able to foot the bill without aid.

I am not sure why this surprises you. It says more about you than it does the admissions counselor.

A universally accepted reason for opting out of an ED acceptance is lack of affordability.

Yes, if the *financial aid* is insufficient and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result, then you can get out of your ED commitment.

Merit aid however is a different animal. If you don't get the merit aid you hoped for, that does not permit you to opt out of the ED acceptance.

I wrote the post that you quoted. Your response is not quite accurate.

The school's Net Price Calculator is not a guarantee and the NPC is not a decisive guideline regarding affordability for any particular family. So, if the above post deleted "and doesn't synch with the Net Price Calculator result", it would be correct.

NP here. My understanding is that it f you do not get the need based aid you are qualified for, you can decline the offer of acceptance. Not merit. The reality is that many families can’t pay what they “should” be able to pay under the formulas as rely on merit. Running the NPC gives you an estimate. If you screenshot it and they don’t meet it, you are easily out of the agreement. Without that, it’s hard (but not impossible) to make the argument that you can’t afford it based on your financial status as demonstrated by your FAFSA.

Practically speaking, they need an objective measure and the FAFSA gives them that, although there are many reasons a family can’t afford why they “should” be able to afford. You would have to argue those to get out of the contract and may or may not succeed.

IMO, it’s dangerous to ED if you can’t meet the amount in the NPC. Merit would be a bonus (and likely only at less selective schools).

PP here and yes, that's the point I was making above.

[Anonymous]

There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

I don’t think this is true. Merit is usually awarded at acceptance. A single named scholarship might be handled differently, but that’s not what “merit” means usually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

You believe that universities have a fiduciary responsibility to applicants?

OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

Do you know what fiduciary responsibility is?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

A lot of "merit" aid is not really "merit" based though - it's a discount given to a lot of full paying students because they need to attract them to attend. Most schools need at least some kids paying 50k+ to attend. They have no "fiduciary responsibility" to their applicants. They need to compose a class where there are at least some kids paying higher rates, thus being need bling but accepting 50+% of the class ED with minimal merit aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There isn't that much merit aid out there, so applying broadly to find schools with merit aid makes sense. In that case ED isn't viable. However, saying ED students are systematically shut out of merit consideration is different, and I don't believe it is a case. Schools have a responsibility to be even handed. E.g. a school with one amazing scholarship, they don't offer that money to lure one amazing kid, they use it to increase apps from amazing kids more broadly. If the award ends up with someone who already was admitted ED it doesn't really change the benefit the school receives--more high stats students submitting applications. What I do believe is special offers run out, so being pulled from a waitlist usually means full pay. That asymmetry makes sense, leaving out the earliest applications from a scholarship process doesn't.

Based on what?

Fiduciary responsibility. So for example the ED applicants are supposed to receive equal consideration for the W&L Johnson scholarship. I'd think that's the rule, not the exception, if the scholarship is truly merit based, it should mean all students with apps in at award time are in the pool.

A lot of "merit" aid is not really "merit" based though - it's a discount given to a lot of full paying students because they need to attract them to attend. Most schools need at least some kids paying 50k+ to attend. They have no "fiduciary responsibility" to their applicants. They need to compose a class where there are at least some kids paying higher rates, thus being need bling but accepting 50+% of the class ED with minimal merit aid.

I get that. But it just seems people aren’t willing to define terms in these statements. If you need to shop merit, it doesn’t really apply to the category of school where everyone gets a coupon. One a school like that, no one needs the ED boost. Further id think any direct conversation with such a school would go well. I see you give out a lot of merit aid, if we want that can we apply ED? I think the school would give a pre-read and re assure the family. Such a school wants them even if it isn’t hooking a full pay