“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”

[Anonymous]

The COA of HBS is so high BECAUSE students can take out as much in grad plus loans as they want up to the arbitrary limit HBS sets. HBS could say its COA is $200,000/year and the govt would say “okay” and still disburse the loans.

Obviously, there needs to be a hard cap on grad plus loans (and parent plus loans) set by the government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Waaah poor MBAs. Maybe they can go do something useful to society instead of money-grubbing profiteering.

The student loans these folks are taking out are brutal. It would keep me up at night not knowing I don’t have a job lined up. They are supposed to be celebrating at graduation and half the class is an anxious mess, especially the foreign students.

TBF, this happened to those graduating in 2008-2009 and during the Dot Com bust. But tuition is so much higher these days for an elite Ivy MBA.

And 2010! I graduated in 2010 from Dartmouth and it was a hot mess. I couldn’t get interviews for entry level jobs 30 minutes outside of Boston. Everyone was hiring grad students for those jobs.

I have a good friend who graduated with me in 2010 and is graduating with an MBA from Duke this year and I feel so bad for her. I’m having PTSD on her behalf.

Why would she go to fuqua as a Dartmouth ug alum?

It’s not worth it outside of m7

Depends why you’re doing it, what you want to do afterwards & who is funding it.

Clearly if she’s an anxious mess there wasn’t a clear idea of why, what and funding

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.

Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.

Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.

+1 hate to say it, but this is what capitalism is about. There are boom times and bust times. If you expected the party to last forever, you were ignorant.

I have been laid off twice, been through two recessions, including graduating during a recession. I told my kid to NOT go to such an expensive college such that we would have to take out huge loans. The ROI is just not there, and you never know what kind of economy you will be going into after graduation.

There had better not be another student loan forgiveness in the horizon for these graduates.

There’s PSLF for nonprofit hospital admins

please, most business grads don't major in it "to help people". And most hospital admins only care about profit even as the hospitals are nonprofit. Hospital admins don't actually care about the people it serves. They care about making sure the hospital is profitable.

btw, I was also a business major.

You missed the point.
“These people” will get student loans forgiven.

WTF are you talking about? No, they will not get their loans forgiven, especially the foreign HBS students.

The only way to get forgiven is to go into government for 10 years and do PSLF. But that seems to be a pretty bad ROI on an MBA from HBS.

Nope, PSLF includes any nonprofit, including nonprofit hospitals and the admin jobs at them.

If that's true, that's BS. These people don't care about the patients, just the bottom line.

Greedy m*ers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Waaah poor MBAs. Maybe they can go do something useful to society instead of money-grubbing profiteering.

Not with $200k in student loans.

More. HBS tuition and fees alone are $83K, and they tell students to budget another $33K for living expenses.

Plus, the foreign students need to tap private lenders or lenders in their home countries. They likely have a variable interest rate, which has probably gone up 500 basis points since they started HBS in fall of 2021.

These folks are getting crushed.

MBB pay for MBAs, although you must go back to work for them after.

I work at one of the "B"s in MBB and this is not universally true. They will pay for the MBA for some but there are conditions and not everyone qualifies. You basically have to apply and be in good standing. Half the class is being counseled out by the time it gets to the time they would leave to get an MBA

[Anonymous]

I remember when parents used to want their children to be business majors instead of humanities majors because they'd always be able to get a job. Guess that's no longer true.

[Anonymous]

Last month the crimson had a damning article on hbs

https://www.thecrimson.com/column/the-postgraduate-way-of-life/article/2023/4/7/yepes-harvard-business-networking/

It couldn’t happen to a better group

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look at this con job published by HBS. These folks got snowed.

https://www.hbs.edu/mba/financial-aid/tuition-assistance/Pages/cost-of-attendance.aspx

Seems like HBS ignores the fact that the program covers two academic years--not just one--when illustrating the COA.

That webpage’s estimates are only good for one year. Everyone knows the 2nd year will be more expensive.

MBA students have spending problems, IMHO. They love to travel, go out to fancy group dinners, rent expensive vacation homes, get bottle service, etc. I know people in the current HBS 23 class and their Instragram accounts have been crazy over-the-top luxury for the past two years.

The program brings in a lot of UHNW international students who can fund that kind of lifestyle while in grad school. But most of the class are still Americans who are probably borrowing gobs of money. One of the students I know from Europe borrowed from a bank in their home country as a variable rate, with the intention of refinancing after graduation. Oooof.

Yes! Why do they all spend like crazy. Is it a peer thing or networking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember when parents used to want their children to be business majors instead of humanities majors because they'd always be able to get a job. Guess that's no longer true.

Majoring in “business management” at podunk state college is a completely different animal than getting an MBA from HBS (after majoring in economics in undergrad & working at a big bank).

[Anonymous]

I think they’ll be fine. The pendulum always swings back, and HBS MBA grads will be at the top of the hiring pack when the job market rebounds.

And even in a tough job market, these grads will out-job and out-earn the non-HBS MBA grads. I don’t think they realistically have anything to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think they’ll be fine. The pendulum always swings back, and HBS MBA grads will be at the top of the hiring pack when the job market rebounds.

And even in a tough job market, these grads will out-job and out-earn the non-HBS MBA grads. I don’t think they realistically have anything to worry about.

That’s part of the point of the article

If hbs “catches a cold”

The rest have death fevers

What’s the return gonna be on a vandy mba or fuqua?

There’s a reason why some big 10 flagships have shut down their bschools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they’ll be fine. The pendulum always swings back, and HBS MBA grads will be at the top of the hiring pack when the job market rebounds.

And even in a tough job market, these grads will out-job and out-earn the non-HBS MBA grads. I don’t think they realistically have anything to worry about.

That’s part of the point of the article

If hbs “catches a cold”

The rest have death fevers

What’s the return gonna be on a vandy mba or fuqua?

There’s a reason why some big 10 flagships have shut down their bschools

I think the big 10 flagships shutting down their MBAs has more to due with the locations of such schools. Quitting your $95k-160k/year job to go live in State College, Pa for 2 years while you pay out the arse to do an MBA is a hard sell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.

Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.

Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.

+1 hate to say it, but this is what capitalism is about. There are boom times and bust times. If you expected the party to last forever, you were ignorant.

I have been laid off twice, been through two recessions, including graduating during a recession. I told my kid to NOT go to such an expensive college such that we would have to take out huge loans. The ROI is just not there, and you never know what kind of economy you will be going into after graduation.

There had better not be another student loan forgiveness in the horizon for these graduates.

There’s PSLF for nonprofit hospital admins

please, most business grads don't major in it "to help people". And most hospital admins only care about profit even as the hospitals are nonprofit. Hospital admins don't actually care about the people it serves. They care about making sure the hospital is profitable.

btw, I was also a business major.

You missed the point.
“These people” will get student loans forgiven.

WTF are you talking about? No, they will not get their loans forgiven, especially the foreign HBS students.

The only way to get forgiven is to go into government for 10 years and do PSLF. But that seems to be a pretty bad ROI on an MBA from HBS.

Nope, PSLF includes any nonprofit, including nonprofit hospitals and the admin jobs at them.

PSLF requires income based repayment, which will result in being paid off in under 10 years if you're well compensated, resulting in 0 forgiveness.

[Anonymous]

Used to think a HBS MBA was the golden ticket. But they graduate about 1,000/year while there might be only 500 HBS MBA jobs opening up every year. So you are competing with classmates. Are there alums who would not have risen to their positions if they had not gone to HBS? Of course and they will be the first to tell you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they’ll be fine. The pendulum always swings back, and HBS MBA grads will be at the top of the hiring pack when the job market rebounds.

And even in a tough job market, these grads will out-job and out-earn the non-HBS MBA grads. I don’t think they realistically have anything to worry about.

That’s part of the point of the article

If hbs “catches a cold”

The rest have death fevers

What’s the return gonna be on a vandy mba or fuqua?

There’s a reason why some big 10 flagships have shut down their bschools

I think the big 10 flagships shutting down their MBAs has more to due with the locations of such schools. Quitting your $95k-160k/year job to go live in State College, Pa for 2 years while you pay out the arse to do an MBA is a hard sell.

Wisconsin almost closed their program. But people who go to Ohio State or Minnesota for an MBA are generally from those states and looking to punch a ticket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think they’ll be fine. The pendulum always swings back, and HBS MBA grads will be at the top of the hiring pack when the job market rebounds.

And even in a tough job market, these grads will out-job and out-earn the non-HBS MBA grads. I don’t think they realistically have anything to worry about.

That’s part of the point of the article

If hbs “catches a cold”

The rest have death fevers

What’s the return gonna be on a vandy mba or fuqua?

There’s a reason why some big 10 flagships have shut down their bschools

I think the big 10 flagships shutting down their MBAs has more to due with the locations of such schools. Quitting your $95k-160k/year job to go live in State College, Pa for 2 years while you pay out the arse to do an MBA is a hard sell.

Wisconsin almost closed their program. But people who go to Ohio State or Minnesota for an MBA are generally from those states and looking to punch a ticket.

For some jobs location & local connections matters more than prestige, if you want to work in Houston oil industry better to go to a local school than HBS or the like.