Woodward HS boundary study - BCC, Blair, Einstein, WJ, Kennedy, Northwood, Wheaton, Whitman impacts

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The solution is not to bus students from one side of University to the other; it's to make it safer to cross University, which is not something under MCPS's control. It's a state road anyway, so maybe contacting your state reps is the better plan.

Whoosh

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the concern re: busing? Is this all environmental? Where I grew up in upstate NY everyone had a bus option (and the whole town was probably within a 2.5 mile radius of the high school- I was on the "far" end at 2.1 miles). Buses all went door to door, no one thought they were an issue.

Buses cost money (buses, drivers, fuel and maintenance), contribute to climate change (including electric buses), and are the main reason why it's so difficult for MCPS to have reasonable school start times for elementary, middle, and high schools. One school bus is better than many parents in cars, but it would be even better if students who live within walking distance of school (1.0, 1.5, 2.0 miles for elementary, middle, high school) had safe routes and walked or biked to/from school.

Or, at least, that's one concern re: busing.

Plus, then, some people have a different concern re: busing, namely that some school bus transportation is just transportation (totally fine and reasonable!), whereas other school bus transportation is "busing" (terrible! boo! social engineering!). You can guess which is which.

Is it really 2 miles for HS? How many of those students are actually walking both ways every day, even if they do have a safe route? My guess is a lot are driven.

Yes, it's really 2 miles maximum for high school. That's a 40-minute walk or 15 minutes by bike. Obviously most people in the walk zone would be closer than 2 miles.

My guess is: the more affluent your family, the more likely you are to get driven. The poorer your family, the more likely you are to walk or bike.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

Saying you think X is less dangerous than Y is an opinion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is the concern re: busing? Is this all environmental? Where I grew up in upstate NY everyone had a bus option (and the whole town was probably within a 2.5 mile radius of the high school- I was on the "far" end at 2.1 miles). Buses all went door to door, no one thought they were an issue.

Buses cost money (buses, drivers, fuel and maintenance), contribute to climate change (including electric buses), and are the main reason why it's so difficult for MCPS to have reasonable school start times for elementary, middle, and high schools. One school bus is better than many parents in cars, but it would be even better if students who live within walking distance of school (1.0, 1.5, 2.0 miles for elementary, middle, high school) had safe routes and walked or biked to/from school.

Or, at least, that's one concern re: busing.

Plus, then, some people have a different concern re: busing, namely that some school bus transportation is just transportation (totally fine and reasonable!), whereas other school bus transportation is "busing" (terrible! boo! social engineering!). You can guess which is which.

Is it really 2 miles for HS? How many of those students are actually walking both ways every day, even if they do have a safe route? My guess is a lot are driven.

Yes, it's really 2 miles maximum for high school. That's a 40-minute walk or 15 minutes by bike. Obviously most people in the walk zone would be closer than 2 miles.

My guess is: the more affluent your family, the more likely you are to get driven. The poorer your family, the more likely you are to walk or bike.

Sometimes it’s more of a factor of parents work times. I was in the “walk” zone for high school (~1.5 mile) even though there weren’t sidewalks for the most direct route or a light for crossing a major road. Generally fine in the afternoon hours but not so much in the morning when it was often still dark. My dad dropped us off on the way to his shift, but parents were both still working in the afternoon so I had to walk or find a ride.

But yeah, if your family doesn’t own a car then driving isn’t an option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The solution is not to bus students from one side of University to the other; it's to make it safer to cross University, which is not something under MCPS's control. It's a state road anyway, so maybe contacting your state reps is the better plan.

Correct, it's not under MCPS's control, but it is an issue that MCPS could be interested in. However, currently, it is not an issue that MCPS is interested in.

And to the PP who says this is all beside the point - it's not. If you live across the street from School A, and you get bused because MCPS has decided it's not safe to walk, then you're not in the walk zone, and MCPS could well decide that since you're on a bus regardless, you should take the bus to School B instead of School A.

Here's another example: students in the Wyngate neighborhood get bused to WJ. On the west side, a lot of Fernwood doesn't have sidewalks, and on the east side, there's the Beltway. So if they're getting bused to WJ anyway, why not bus them to Einstein instead?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

Saying you think X is less dangerous than Y is an opinion.

No, it's a fact. Go walk around and see for yourself. Go cross Veirs Mill at Valleywood - MCPS says that's safe for MS students to cross. Then cross Connecticut at south of Woodbine - MCPS says that is not safe for HS students to cross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

Saying you think X is less dangerous than Y is an opinion.

No, it's a fact. Go walk around and see for yourself. Go cross Veirs Mill at Valleywood - MCPS says that's safe for MS students to cross. Then cross Connecticut at south of Woodbine - MCPS says that is not safe for HS students to cross.

+1. The MCPS decisions as to what is unsafe for Bethesda kids vs. what is unsafe for DCC kids are not logical. We are at the far edge of the Einstein walk zone and we will drive our kids to school because I’m not letting my 14 year old daughters make that walk in the dark.

[Anonymous]

The potentially good news is, now that this Woodward study has been approved, one of the upcoming steps will be the MCPS transportation department going around to all the included schools' neighborhoods and reassessing walkability. They will collect new data and make determinations on which areas should be considered as walk zones, and then the capital planning department will factor those zones into the boundary options they present next year.

[Anonymous]

WJ parent from Kensington- I think it’s insane that any students are crossing University near Newport Mill Road. I won’t do it as an adult if I can help it. It’s a very unsafe stretch. I’d love for that stretch to be fixed but in the interim, I don’t think students should have to cross. Have parents taken this up with the Board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

Saying you think X is less dangerous than Y is an opinion.

No, it's a fact. Go walk around and see for yourself. Go cross Veirs Mill at Valleywood - MCPS says that's safe for MS students to cross. Then cross Connecticut at south of Woodbine - MCPS says that is not safe for HS students to cross.

Does MCPS provide crossing guards for the MS arrival and dismissal times at this location? They do at very busy intersections elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM, for years and years: "WJ students living near University and Newport Mill should be rezoned to Einstein, since they can easily walk there--it's practically next door!"

DCUM, now: "Einstein students living near University and Newport Mill should get bus service to Einstein--it's too dangerous to walk there!"

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Not everything is about the Town of Kensington being assigned to WJ instead of Einstein.

Facts:

1. Right now, Einstein students (not in the TOK) who live on the other side of University are in the Einstein walk zone.
2. Right now, BCC students who live on the other side of Connecticut are in the BCC bus zone.
3. Crossing University in Kensington/Wheaton is, at minimum, not less dangerous than crossing Connecticut in Chevy Chase.
4. MCPS spends a lot of money to bus students who live within walking distance, because there is no safe route to school.

Well, number 3 is your opinion. Maybe you can look up data about the traffic on each road, and see how it compares. Anecdotally, I have always found there to be a lot of traffic at Connecticut and East-West Highway and not as much at University and Newport Mill.

-Einstein parent who drives both roads frequently

I'm the PP you're responding to, and no, it's not my opinion, it's a fact.

Try it on foot a few times to compare for yourself. You can't judge pedestrian safety based on the traffic congestion you experience while driving.

Saying you think X is less dangerous than Y is an opinion.

No, it's a fact. Go walk around and see for yourself. Go cross Veirs Mill at Valleywood - MCPS says that's safe for MS students to cross. Then cross Connecticut at south of Woodbine - MCPS says that is not safe for HS students to cross.

Does MCPS provide crossing guards for the MS arrival and dismissal times at this location? They do at very busy intersections elsewhere.

No. Only at Veirs Mill/Newport Mill.

[Anonymous]

I love these people trying to come up with any justification for why the Einstein kids are required to cross major thoroughfares like Viers Mill, Connecticut and University while the Bethesda snowflakes get bus service instead of being required to cross Connecticut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The solution is not to bus students from one side of University to the other; it's to make it safer to cross University, which is not something under MCPS's control. It's a state road anyway, so maybe contacting your state reps is the better plan.

Correct, it's not under MCPS's control, but it is an issue that MCPS could be interested in. However, currently, it is not an issue that MCPS is interested in.

And to the PP who says this is all beside the point - it's not. If you live across the street from School A, and you get bused because MCPS has decided it's not safe to walk, then you're not in the walk zone, and MCPS could well decide that since you're on a bus regardless, you should take the bus to School B instead of School A.

Here's another example: students in the Wyngate neighborhood get bused to WJ. On the west side, a lot of Fernwood doesn't have sidewalks, and on the east side, there's the Beltway. So if they're getting bused to WJ anyway, why not bus them to Einstein instead?

Because there is no room! Isn't that what Woodward is for? Why are people always suggesting sending additional students to Einstein, when it is already overcrowded, it is projected to grow even more so, it is not getting an addition, and it will end up as the smallest building of all the high schools in the study?