APS How F’ed are the schools with MM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem.

Then take over two office buildings.

I think you need to take this brilliant plan to the next school board meeting. Let us know when you'll be speaking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Missing middle doesn’t add that many new houses to Arlington AT ALL. I need to go back and find the numbers in the information but it’s tiny. Really not worth all this hubbub and hand wringing.

Not in the short term. But if such multiplex developments start gaining popularity, the momentum will eventually increase and it will add a lot more housing units. the goal of the whole MM is to increase the density of
Arlington, after all. It's the long-term that Arlington needs to be thinking of and they need to be doing it NOW because it takes TEN YEARS to plan and construct a new school.

Isn’t Arlington already the most dense county in the United States?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Missing middle doesn’t add that many new houses to Arlington AT ALL. I need to go back and find the numbers in the information but it’s tiny. Really not worth all this hubbub and hand wringing.

Not in the short term. But if such multiplex developments start gaining popularity, the momentum will eventually increase and it will add a lot more housing units. the goal of the whole MM is to increase the density of
Arlington, after all. It's the long-term that Arlington needs to be thinking of and they need to be doing it NOW because it takes TEN YEARS to plan and construct a new school.

Isn’t Arlington already the most dense county in the United States?

Yes. It’s already more dense than most US cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are older and almost out of APS. But I would not chose to stay in Arlington now if my kids were young. MM is just one of many problems here. I am feeling grouchy today, but that's the truth.

Arlington has no space to build a 4th HS and no money to do additions. Plus the planning process here takes decades. Not going to happen in the 8 years before your kid gets there.

So which district would you move into? I will find you an FCPS parent whose unhappy and will tell you about it.

Private

NIMBYism at its absolute peak.

I’m not the PP but why would someone using private school be a NIMBY? Wouldn’t NIMBYism be something like fighting additional density to preserve the population of the local public school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I thought a bunch of people actually did leave the public schools, which were becoming more and more overcrowded? But that now some kids were starting to return?

If you add even more kids without fixing the underlying overcrowding problems, where does that leave us?

(What is the solution to the high school overcrowding problem if you think it's fine to add more kids? School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school. School board has previously floated having virtual classes and having a two-schedule system where some kids come into school in the mornings and others come in in the afternoons. Does anyone actually WANT that? It's such a rich county and we're threatening our educational system with this ridiculousness wut?)

Missing middle isn't adding kids over night. So let's all take a deep breath.

Do you get this upset when new condo buildings are being built? Because those add MUCH more density, much faster than anything missing middle will add.

Last, absolutely bring your concerns to the county board, and ask them to work with APS to alleviate high school crowding. Complaining here does nothing.

I actually got more upset over condos being built and went to complain to the county board about it about 7 years ago -- that they weren't adequately accounting for kids being added to the schools. I don't really know how I feel about missing middle tbh - desegregating the county would be good honestly. But the schools are a problem and the county board is just ignoring the high school issue.

Yes, indeed it would. But more housing won't do that. On the other hand, schools could do more to de-segregate if they really wanted to and if the County and APS worked together and committed to developing the efficient and sufficient transportation system a ranked-choice school system requires. But they don't want to.

Doesn't missing middle actually address this a little? Maybe not right now when the units are brand new as rentals, but won't they maybe be rented at less in 10 years and encourage non-high income people to move in? That's what the pro-missing middle people say, anyway. Otherwise isn't Arlington just always going to be an area where pockets of land way over there are for low income people and it's usually not right next to the $2M houses?

That's what MM proponents say, yes. But I'm not buying it for an instant. Until substantial amounts of true affordable housing is built in north Arlington (Washington Blvd northward, especially Langston Blvd) the segregation will persist. Where do you think the cheaper MM housing (multiplexes) is more likely to happen: south Arlington SFH neighborhoods that already have old, small, run-down SFHs and townhouses and duplexes on parcels that cost less; or SFHs in north Arlington that are sprawling lawns and only SFHs - maybe a few nicer townhomes - where each parcel costs more to purchase? Developers aren't going to seek the most expensive parcels to build multiple units. They want to purchase for less to maximize their profits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

People are desperate to get to Hb because it’s a capped student population. Arlington Tech is just a program within the huge Career Center campus, so you have tech students and hair styling and culinary students and it’s almost as hectic as the full size high schools, just without fields and pool.

The huge campus? Have you been there?

Career Center is now at 900. The new building will allow for 1550 students. That is a lot smaller than any of the other high schools and like HB, the student population will be capped. As it is now. No chance of overcrowding. People will go for it. Lots of people do not care about fields or a pool. Enough people to fill the school and then some.

Small population is not critical to the “program” like HB claims, it will be enlarged in near future.

Give me a break! It is NOT being enlarged. Post your source or admit you are a liar.

It’s self evident. They just allowed the program to be expanded with the new addition. When HB moved, they were NOT expanded because parents whined the programs small size was crucial to its success. Since Career Center programs have just been expanded, it’s thus proven that is small size is not fundamental to the program, so when other high schools are over crowded, and perhaps some trailers or parking space could increase career center capacity, it will happen. Because they have already expanded it once.

DP I think the PPP thought (as did I) you were stating HB would be expanded. Nevertheless, of course AT is being expanded in the expanded facility. It was always intended to grow since its inception. They actually halted that expansion early on, though.
However, "Career Center programs" being expanded has nothing to do with the small size of AT or any other program. Career Center programs and classes are accessible countywide. Population overall has grown over the years, so logical more students might want to attend the Career Center specific programs; but CTE classes supposedly accessible to all high school students have increasingly been inaccessible due to (1) more high school students and, more critically (2) AT students getting priority access to them in lieu of the program's own elective offerings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

I'm sure it will continue to be like it is now - lottery with the requirement to complete Alg 2 before your sophomore year, not sure if there's a GPA requirement.
Personally, I think HB and AT should both have an application element in that there should be a case made as to why your child needs the program and/or why the program is a better fit for your child's academic or emotional wellness needs, including teacher recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

I'm sure it will continue to be like it is now - lottery with the requirement to complete Alg 2 before your sophomore year, not sure if there's a GPA requirement.
Personally, I think HB and AT should both have an application element in that there should be a case made as to why your child needs the program and/or why the program is a better fit for your child's academic or emotional wellness needs, including teacher recommendations.

Oh man that would be great. DS adores math and science, and he has anxiety in crowds. It would be so great if he could go to AT. I wonder what the pros and cons are of the lottery system compared to what you’re proposing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are older and almost out of APS. But I would not chose to stay in Arlington now if my kids were young. MM is just one of many problems here. I am feeling grouchy today, but that's the truth.

Arlington has no space to build a 4th HS and no money to do additions. Plus the planning process here takes decades. Not going to happen in the 8 years before your kid gets there.

So which district would you move into? I will find you an FCPS parent whose unhappy and will tell you about it.

Private

NIMBYism at its absolute peak.

I’m not the PP but why would someone using private school be a NIMBY? Wouldn’t NIMBYism be something like fighting additional density to preserve the population of the local public school?

Opposing MM is considered NIMBY because (from proponents' perspectives) the racist rich white family living in the 5,000 sq ft SFH with outdoor space does not want their neighborhood to be disturbed by multi-plexes next door occupied by the minorities who will suddenly be able to afford to rent or buy $500K apartments and $1.2m townhomes.
NIMBY-ism isn't about schools per se; it's about changing your current lifestyle: don't built committed affordable housing here - put it over there; don't temporarily park buses in the industrial lot next to our neighborhood while you build a new bus depot in south Arlington - put them somewhere else; don't build a new fire station here - keep it over there; etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

I'm sure it will continue to be like it is now - lottery with the requirement to complete Alg 2 before your sophomore year, not sure if there's a GPA requirement.
Personally, I think HB and AT should both have an application element in that there should be a case made as to why your child needs the program and/or why the program is a better fit for your child's academic or emotional wellness needs, including teacher recommendations.

Oh man that would be great. DS adores math and science, and he has anxiety in crowds. It would be so great if he could go to AT. I wonder what the pros and cons are of the lottery system compared to what you’re proposing.

IMO, the pros include matching student needs and learning styles to the academic programs' instruction and offerings.
I'm told the cons include teachers having to make recommendations, which I guess is a con for the teacher and maybe all the parents "advocating" to the child's teacher to get their kid recommended.
My personal opinion is that teachers are supposed to be the education experts and should be better-suited to know what learning style a student is and what academic approach/setting would be best. As it is, the HB program really no longer necessarily serves the learners it was designed to suit and is merely a matter of luck of the draw and luck of the people who somehow figure out how to work the system and get their kid in regardless of the lottery. I don't think any student is not served by the HB program; but I do believe there are many other students who would be far better served by HB than their neighborhood school. Most HB students would fare just as well academically (and socially) at their neighborhood school.
AT is an entirely different ball game. It's a very different academic program and it offers a very different approach.
It's foolish to believe that only students who are well-suited to these programs are the ones entering the lottery. AT more so for now, until such time it becomes more highly coveted by parents. HB absolutely not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Basically AT is going to be viewed as vocational plus, with DE credit that only applies in-state schools more or less. With its co-location with actual vocational programs like hair styling, cooking, and HVAC repair at Career Center, it will never have the wide appeal of HB.

But there still may be enough interest to fill the schools and have a waitlist; and I’m sure eventually they will expand the campus with trailers and expand the AT program. It won’t have the protected capped population of HB lofted off in The Heights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

I'm sure it will continue to be like it is now - lottery with the requirement to complete Alg 2 before your sophomore year, not sure if there's a GPA requirement.
Personally, I think HB and AT should both have an application element in that there should be a case made as to why your child needs the program and/or why the program is a better fit for your child's academic or emotional wellness needs, including teacher recommendations.

Oh man that would be great. DS adores math and science, and he has anxiety in crowds. It would be so great if he could go to AT. I wonder what the pros and cons are of the lottery system compared to what you’re proposing.

IMO, the pros include matching student needs and learning styles to the academic programs' instruction and offerings.
I'm told the cons include teachers having to make recommendations, which I guess is a con for the teacher and maybe all the parents "advocating" to the child's teacher to get their kid recommended.
My personal opinion is that teachers are supposed to be the education experts and should be better-suited to know what learning style a student is and what academic approach/setting would be best. As it is, the HB program really no longer necessarily serves the learners it was designed to suit and is merely a matter of luck of the draw and luck of the people who somehow figure out how to work the system and get their kid in regardless of the lottery. I don't think any student is not served by the HB program; but I do believe there are many other students who would be far better served by HB than their neighborhood school. Most HB students would fare just as well academically (and socially) at their neighborhood school.
AT is an entirely different ball game. It's a very different academic program and it offers a very different approach.
It's foolish to believe that only students who are well-suited to these programs are the ones entering the lottery. AT more so for now, until such time it becomes more highly coveted by parents. HB absolutely not.

or APS could develop more of these high school programs so that students would self select into the one that is the best fit without just running away from the huge high schools. probably a pipe dream i know.

i have a kid at hb and after they got in, multiple teachers and their elem school told me what a good fit it was for them. and it really is. i'm so thankful they are there. but we just got really really lucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: School board has been clear that there's no land to build another comprehensive high school.

That's what eminent domain is for. Just take over some lobbyists' office spaces, even if lobbying is protected by the first amendment.

Taking over an office building isn't going to give you near enough space for a 4th comprehensive high school. that's the whole problem. You need space for all the fields and pools or whatever, or the kids at that school are just going to have to share the facilities at some preexisting high schools that already has too many kids fighting for use of the facilities. That's why the discussion of doing the 4th comprehensive 10 (or whatever) years ago was key and the county just couldn't find a way to make it happen. If they couldn't do it then, they won't do it now, or 5 years from now, or 10 -- because there is just not the land to do it. I think washington country club should donate their golf course -- that might be enough space (though it's basically right in between WL and Yorktown so...). Or maybe we could turn a park into a high school.

Meanwhile, if you don't do something drastic like that, it's flex scheduling or virtual schools on the table and I don't think anyone really wants that. Or just keep crowding kids into WL? County just keeps sitting on its hands thinking bonus density being used by developers is a good idea and teachers keep quitting so ... not really sure what's going to happen here.

Let this go. It's not happening and there is a compelling case for why it's not necessary and worth the enormous expense. Siphon off kids who will self-select into high-quality specialty programs...STEM, performing arts, other. There will be plenty of fields left for the kids who prioritize this kind of experience.

WHAT high quality specialty programs are you talking about, besides Arlington Tech? Nothing like this currently exists. How long do you think it would take the county to budget and create something like that when currently NOTHING LIKE THAT is on their TO DO list or even running wild in their imaginations?

DP. And they still need space for these programs.

Even if they just make Arlington Tech into a high quality math/science/engineering/CS program, they would clearly get lots of students to do it. People fall all over themselves to get into HB. Why would this be any different if marketed well. I'm telling you they've already started doing this. They have middle school kids thinking Arlington Tech is the dream. Over subscribed and lottery in place. A new building and expanded student body with more class offerings as a result means they will have plenty of takers and Chad and Ethan can be assured of their access to the lacrosse fields.

Other than the Chad and Ethan comment, +1
APS, per usual, sucked at rolling out and promoting the AT program. Parents didn't understand the program and then the whole extracurriculars and no music classes thing. But now that students are graduating from the program with a year or two's worth of college credits due to all the dual enrollment classes and parents are seeing the schools graduates are applying to and going to, along with the long-delayed investment in new facilities, they're suddenly going to be clamoring to get their STEM kids in - even though it still is, and never will be, TJ Science and Technology. Of course, it was never intended to be, either.

Yeah. Is it going to be a lottery or application?

I'm sure it will continue to be like it is now - lottery with the requirement to complete Alg 2 before your sophomore year, not sure if there's a GPA requirement.
Personally, I think HB and AT should both have an application element in that there should be a case made as to why your child needs the program and/or why the program is a better fit for your child's academic or emotional wellness needs, including teacher recommendations.

Oh man that would be great. DS adores math and science, and he has anxiety in crowds. It would be so great if he could go to AT. I wonder what the pros and cons are of the lottery system compared to what you’re proposing.

IMO, the pros include matching student needs and learning styles to the academic programs' instruction and offerings.
I'm told the cons include teachers having to make recommendations, which I guess is a con for the teacher and maybe all the parents "advocating" to the child's teacher to get their kid recommended.
My personal opinion is that teachers are supposed to be the education experts and should be better-suited to know what learning style a student is and what academic approach/setting would be best. As it is, the HB program really no longer necessarily serves the learners it was designed to suit and is merely a matter of luck of the draw and luck of the people who somehow figure out how to work the system and get their kid in regardless of the lottery. I don't think any student is not served by the HB program; but I do believe there are many other students who would be far better served by HB than their neighborhood school. Most HB students would fare just as well academically (and socially) at their neighborhood school.
AT is an entirely different ball game. It's a very different academic program and it offers a very different approach.
It's foolish to believe that only students who are well-suited to these programs are the ones entering the lottery. AT more so for now, until such time it becomes more highly coveted by parents. HB absolutely not.

What does this mean? What other ways are there to get in besides the lottery?