HS teacher not grading papers for two straight semesters. Does FCPS have a policy on this?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Please tell me students need to get at least a C in Algebra 1 to go into Algebra 2? No? No prerequisite? This is crazy...

A 63.5 counts as a D and is all that is required to move forward to the next course. You get 50% for breathing. If the teacher grades homework on "effort", that's 10% from copying the answer key off schoology or copying their friend's assignment or just scribbling down gibberish. Now they only have to get above 50% on a couple classwork assignments all year to get 50+10+3.5 and pass.

Then that student shows up in the next class and it is painfully obvious by day 2 that they don't belong but "my counselor said colleges want to see algebra 2" and "I know my child needs to have 4 years of math to get into college" and now I have 5 kids who can't do 2+7, tell left from right, or point to the x-axis enrolled in a single section of algebra 2 along with 27 other kids, but those 5 take as much effort on my part as the other 27. I am basically teaching two completely different classes in a single class period, or I'm giving up on 1/6 of the class which will result in dozens of meetings ("Why are so many of your students failing? Can you show me documented interventions you've provided to support them? What remediation opportunities are you providing? Are you pulling them into 4th period support and keeping them after school and meeting with their parents regularly and and and...?")

Yes, it's crazy.

And then to counter it the parents of the A/B gen ed kids don't want their kids dealing with that, so they push them up into honors which THEY aren't prepared for, so then the same scenario happens in the honors level classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please tell me students need to get at least a C in Algebra 1 to go into Algebra 2? No? No prerequisite? This is crazy...

Don't they have AFDA now ?

Yes, but kids and parents have to want to slow down. Most don't, they see that as a failure and think that with a little more effort and maybe a few tutoring sessions their child will be okay in algebra 2. By the time they admit that it's not working out it's November and it's too late to change classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP teacher.

Those free response questions are the death of me. They take 3-4 minutes each to grade, our tests have two each, so 7 minutes per kid x87 kids = 10 hrs of grading for one test. I have fantasized about not grading them…but I just suck it up and devote one Sunday every 2-3 weeks to nothing but free response grading.

Next year I am going to try to be more strategic and have the kids “pre grade” it themselves using the rubric. Is the teacher showing them what the rubric for the short answer questions looks like? Are they going over what a solid answer looks like and picking apart examples of weaker ones? Are they writing a sample solution as a class after they write individual ones? Are they told what year the question was from so they can look up the rubric in college board’s website?

I think all of these are ways to give feedback without grades. If none of that is happening, then I’d be frustrated and would have my kid reach out to the teacher (cc you on the email for accountability) and ask how to get feedback on the written part. If no answer, then go to the administrator in charge of that department and ask how your child can get feedback on their written portions. That’s the more important piece than the grade, IMO. They are having graded assignments (the gradebook isn’t blank! No surprise entries at the end of the quarter) but your child needs guidance to pass the AP test.

I'm sympathetic, as I used to teach writing, but you have to be joking for the bolded. Those rubrics re idiotic and subjective, for one. But also, it is YOUR job to grade and provide the feedback. I don't know the answer here to help you get that done but it is not the kids doing it for you.

Well, guess you’ll have to cope with your displeasure about it.

(not teacher PP)

Not “teacher PP” but another lazy teacher. -signed a teacher who is well aware of how much work it is

I’m a parent, not a teacher. Didn’t anyone ever tell you what happens when you ASSUME?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are not getting any response from admin you should escalate to the next level, which is the region executive principal. They should offer the teacher support, including getting the teacher a sub so the teacher can grade papers. They can use admin funds for that, and I know it’s hard to get subs, but something has to give.

You’re delusional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please tell me students need to get at least a C in Algebra 1 to go into Algebra 2? No? No prerequisite? This is crazy...

A 63.5 counts as a D and is all that is required to move forward to the next course. You get 50% for breathing. If the teacher grades homework on "effort", that's 10% from copying the answer key off schoology or copying their friend's assignment or just scribbling down gibberish. Now they only have to get above 50% on a couple classwork assignments all year to get 50+10+3.5 and pass.

Then that student shows up in the next class and it is painfully obvious by day 2 that they don't belong but "my counselor said colleges want to see algebra 2" and "I know my child needs to have 4 years of math to get into college" and now I have 5 kids who can't do 2+7, tell left from right, or point to the x-axis enrolled in a single section of algebra 2 along with 27 other kids, but those 5 take as much effort on my part as the other 27. I am basically teaching two completely different classes in a single class period, or I'm giving up on 1/6 of the class which will result in dozens of meetings ("Why are so many of your students failing? Can you show me documented interventions you've provided to support them? What remediation opportunities are you providing? Are you pulling them into 4th period support and keeping them after school and meeting with their parents regularly and and and...?")

Yes, it's crazy.

And then to counter it the parents of the A/B gen ed kids don't want their kids dealing with that, so they push them up into honors which THEY aren't prepared for, so then the same scenario happens in the honors level classes.

++++++1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s so cute that you think there’s a line of people waiting to teach your kid AP level math.

Signed,

A history teacher

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP teacher.

Those free response questions are the death of me. They take 3-4 minutes each to grade, our tests have two each, so 7 minutes per kid x87 kids = 10 hrs of grading for one test. I have fantasized about not grading them…but I just suck it up and devote one Sunday every 2-3 weeks to nothing but free response grading.

Next year I am going to try to be more strategic and have the kids “pre grade” it themselves using the rubric. Is the teacher showing them what the rubric for the short answer questions looks like? Are they going over what a solid answer looks like and picking apart examples of weaker ones? Are they writing a sample solution as a class after they write individual ones? Are they told what year the question was from so they can look up the rubric in college board’s website?

I think all of these are ways to give feedback without grades. If none of that is happening, then I’d be frustrated and would have my kid reach out to the teacher (cc you on the email for accountability) and ask how to get feedback on the written part. If no answer, then go to the administrator in charge of that department and ask how your child can get feedback on their written portions. That’s the more important piece than the grade, IMO. They are having graded assignments (the gradebook isn’t blank! No surprise entries at the end of the quarter) but your child needs guidance to pass the AP test.

I'm sympathetic, as I used to teach writing, but you have to be joking for the bolded. Those rubrics re idiotic and subjective, for one. But also, it is YOUR job to grade and provide the feedback. I don't know the answer here to help you get that done but it is not the kids doing it for you.

I only know my subject (an AP math class) but they are actually exceedingly detailed and clear rubrics. They list out exactly what bullet points are required for full marks, examples of ways to hit them, and what designates partial credit. They list sample responses, why marks are missed, etc. You could hand the rubrics to someone who had never taught the course and they’d be able to figure it out if they knew basic content.

The reality is that grading it themselves will give them the immediate feedback. They’ll know within minutes after they did it what was missing (big picture). Then I can focus on just grading every third one, holding a stack until a teacher work day, not feeling bad about only doing an hour a night instead of 6, etc.

The alternative is it doesn’t get done at all. Right now I’m missing my own kid’s childhood to grade. I refuse to do that next year.

Cool. So you won't be doing your full job, for 2/3 of the students. I mean, I guess you get points for admitting it. But, no, those rubrics are not clear by any means (yes, I've looked).

I understand the work life balance issues as I'm in a career notoriously bad about that. Guess what? I changed jobs to make FAR less money and have that. If you feel you can't have both, you should absolutely find another option and let someone who is going to do their full job do it. Because you're simply not doing the kids any favors. You're not. As a parent, I'd rather have someone who does everything expect and, historically, everything teachers have done.

How many people do you think are willing to work 60 hours a week on a teacher’s pay? These aren’t an easy 60 hours, either. Most are spent on your feet, responsible for 140+ disinterested teenagers. Did your “notoriously bad” job require 30 hours of presentations a week, on top of another 30 of prep and debriefing? Were you deemed responsible for the performance of all the people in front of you, some of whom were forced to be there and openly defiant?

Yeah… there’s a huge line of people willing to take this job.

- not a Math teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP teacher.

Those free response questions are the death of me. They take 3-4 minutes each to grade, our tests have two each, so 7 minutes per kid x87 kids = 10 hrs of grading for one test. I have fantasized about not grading them…but I just suck it up and devote one Sunday every 2-3 weeks to nothing but free response grading.

Next year I am going to try to be more strategic and have the kids “pre grade” it themselves using the rubric. Is the teacher showing them what the rubric for the short answer questions looks like? Are they going over what a solid answer looks like and picking apart examples of weaker ones? Are they writing a sample solution as a class after they write individual ones? Are they told what year the question was from so they can look up the rubric in college board’s website?

I think all of these are ways to give feedback without grades. If none of that is happening, then I’d be frustrated and would have my kid reach out to the teacher (cc you on the email for accountability) and ask how to get feedback on the written part. If no answer, then go to the administrator in charge of that department and ask how your child can get feedback on their written portions. That’s the more important piece than the grade, IMO. They are having graded assignments (the gradebook isn’t blank! No surprise entries at the end of the quarter) but your child needs guidance to pass the AP test.

I'm sympathetic, as I used to teach writing, but you have to be joking for the bolded. Those rubrics re idiotic and subjective, for one. But also, it is YOUR job to grade and provide the feedback. I don't know the answer here to help you get that done but it is not the kids doing it for you.

I only know my subject (an AP math class) but they are actually exceedingly detailed and clear rubrics. They list out exactly what bullet points are required for full marks, examples of ways to hit them, and what designates partial credit. They list sample responses, why marks are missed, etc. You could hand the rubrics to someone who had never taught the course and they’d be able to figure it out if they knew basic content.

The reality is that grading it themselves will give them the immediate feedback. They’ll know within minutes after they did it what was missing (big picture). Then I can focus on just grading every third one, holding a stack until a teacher work day, not feeling bad about only doing an hour a night instead of 6, etc.

The alternative is it doesn’t get done at all. Right now I’m missing my own kid’s childhood to grade. I refuse to do that next year.

Cool. So you won't be doing your full job, for 2/3 of the students. I mean, I guess you get points for admitting it. But, no, those rubrics are not clear by any means (yes, I've looked).

I understand the work life balance issues as I'm in a career notoriously bad about that. Guess what? I changed jobs to make FAR less money and have that. If you feel you can't have both, you should absolutely find another option and let someone who is going to do their full job do it. Because you're simply not doing the kids any favors. You're not. As a parent, I'd rather have someone who does everything expect and, historically, everything teachers have done.

I meant every third free response question i give out, not every third student paper. That wouldn't be fair. I meant give 2 that they grade themselves for feedback, then only have to grade 1 per unit instead of what I'm doing now, grading all 3 (1 per quiz, 2 per test).

And I'd argue if you don't think the rubrics are clear, you don't know the content. They are written so that 8 different AP teachers sitting at the same table read the rubric, all read the same paper, and all give it identical scores. If that doesn't happen, they rewrite the rubric. They are exceedingly clear.

BUT...I suspect you don't actually care about any of this and are just looking to drive a further wedge between parents and teachers. If you really think teachers like me who are trying to think outside the box and make this job work within the limits of a sane person's energy level, then you are cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[Anonymous]

I wish people would stop posting about late grading. It is clear in every single thread that teachers will not be changing anything, no matter what the effect on students. It's sad, but it's just how it is in FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish people would stop posting about late grading. It is clear in every single thread that teachers will not be changing anything, no matter what the effect on students. It's sad, but it's just how it is in FCPS.

Meh. My kid is a senior in FCPS. Out of 26 teachers (7*4, but he had 2 of them twice) there was only 1 teacher who didn't grade things in a reasonably timely fashion. Daughter is a freshmen and all 7 (none the same as DS!) have been fine with grading. Sometimes quizzes take a week or two to return, but that seems reasonable. Oftentimes the grades are in the gradebook ahead of getting them back as the teacher waits for absent kids to make it up.

I think the squeaky wheels are just...really squeaky with their complaints.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish people would stop posting about late grading. It is clear in every single thread that teachers will not be changing anything, no matter what the effect on students. It's sad, but it's just how it is in FCPS.

Meh. My kid is a senior in FCPS. Out of 26 teachers (7*4, but he had 2 of them twice) there was only 1 teacher who didn't grade things in a reasonably timely fashion. Daughter is a freshmen and all 7 (none the same as DS!) have been fine with grading. Sometimes quizzes take a week or two to return, but that seems reasonable. Oftentimes the grades are in the gradebook ahead of getting them back as the teacher waits for absent kids to make it up.

I think the squeaky wheels are just...really squeaky with their complaints.

Are they not legitimate complaints?

I get student work back (with comments) as fast as I can. Do you think it’s fair that I have to give 2-4 hours every weeknight and 15-20 hours every weekend to grading? Is that acceptable to you?

It’s not acceptable to me. I’m tired of watching coworkers burn out and quit. These are people who wanted to teach, but could no longer keep up with the conditions. It’s brutal being “on” all day with no breaks, simply to come home to do the rest of your job.

Be grateful for your kids’ teachers. That work in the gradebook took sacrifice.

[Anonymous]

Based on the teacher comments above about what’s changed, schools either need to drop open enrollment and the endless re-do’s OR they need to budget for a FTE. Grader for the class level. This could be for all English 9 at a school for instance so not a 1 to 1 with each teacher.

[Anonymous]

So for open enrollment, students can sign up for whatever class they want in every subject? If they do poorly, can they be sent back to a lower level class?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish people would stop posting about late grading. It is clear in every single thread that teachers will not be changing anything, no matter what the effect on students. It's sad, but it's just how it is in FCPS.

Meh. My kid is a senior in FCPS. Out of 26 teachers (7*4, but he had 2 of them twice) there was only 1 teacher who didn't grade things in a reasonably timely fashion. Daughter is a freshmen and all 7 (none the same as DS!) have been fine with grading. Sometimes quizzes take a week or two to return, but that seems reasonable. Oftentimes the grades are in the gradebook ahead of getting them back as the teacher waits for absent kids to make it up.

I think the squeaky wheels are just...really squeaky with their complaints.

Are they not legitimate complaints?

I get student work back (with comments) as fast as I can. Do you think it’s fair that I have to give 2-4 hours every weeknight and 15-20 hours every weekend to grading? Is that acceptable to you?

It’s not acceptable to me. I’m tired of watching coworkers burn out and quit. These are people who wanted to teach, but could no longer keep up with the conditions. It’s brutal being “on” all day with no breaks, simply to come home to do the rest of your job.

Be grateful for your kids’ teachers. That work in the gradebook took sacrifice.

No, I meant squeaky parents are whiny over an issue that isn't as widespread as people say.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous how many hours of overtime teachers are expected to work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So for open enrollment, students can sign up for whatever class they want in every subject? If they do poorly, can they be sent back to a lower level class?

Yes, they can sign up for any class. Get a D in math 7? Skip math 8 and take algebra in 8th grade! Get a D in algebra? Go to honors geometry!

No, I cannot force any child to drop the class, ever.