DH pushing for solar panels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't the solar panels all made in China nowadays? So if you install them, you're sending thousands of dollars to China.

Yes, good, here is another valuable contribution making the helpful point that not every single thing about solar panels is 100 percent ideal so therefore you shouldn't install them at all, because obviously burning coal to power your house is better than trading with one of the largest economies in the world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Aren't the solar panels all made in China nowadays? So if you install them, you're sending thousands of dollars to China.

Many of the components are made in China, but you're also spending a lot of money to support decent-paying jobs at the U.S. companies that install the equipment — it's not like you're wiring money directly to Xi.

[Anonymous]

Biden basically put the final nail the US solar industry. He's prioritized climate change, and the assembly/installer jobs over the industry and it's unlikely to bounce back, so we will be reliant on China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He says it is $49,000 upfront and a $28,000 tax credit, so $21,000. We spend $150 average on electricity right now, so they will break even in 11-12 years. This seems like a really long time. We have a 5000 square foot home and the panels would be facing west, where a lot of large trees are. Tesla promises they will offset 100% of our bill. He also wants to get two batteries which are $5000 each, I think. I feel like he's being a doomsday prepper more than anything since Houston lost power for a week. What do you all think?

I think it is great that your DH wants to get solar panels. The more of us who make an effort to switch to renewable energy resources, the better.

In regard to the batteries -- I would skip those. If you have excess electricity in a month, it can simply get sold back via the grid, so there is no need to store the power. With respect to black-outs, power outages usually last only a couple hours in this area. So I don't think there is a real need for the batteries. Lastly, battery technology is improving, and the next generation of batteries will be better than the present generation. So best to skip the batteries for now.

In regard to those posters who think there is some dissonance between having a 5000 square foot house (bad for the environment) and getting solar panels (better for the environment that burning fossil fuels), well, they do have a point, but the fact is that anything you do to reduce your CO2 footprint is helpful. So I hope you go forward with the solar panels.

OP again. Thanks for taking the time to write this. My husband is looking to get these in case we lose electricity. For him, it's not about the environment. The batteries are important to have if you want to have electricity (like your fridge and microwave working) when there is an outage. We haven't lost power for more than 12 hours where we live in MD, so I think his reasoning doesn't make sense. I do agree that batteries are improving and it may be worth it to wait, but it's like waiting for the next generation of iPhone to come out. Will it be a noticeable improvement and how long will I have to wait?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Aren't the solar panels all made in China nowadays? So if you install them, you're sending thousands of dollars to China.

So nothing in your house was made in China and you buy nothing that was made in China??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He says it is $49,000 upfront and a $28,000 tax credit, so $21,000. We spend $150 average on electricity right now, so they will break even in 11-12 years. This seems like a really long time. We have a 5000 square foot home and the panels would be facing west, where a lot of large trees are. Tesla promises they will offset 100% of our bill. He also wants to get two batteries which are $5000 each, I think. I feel like he's being a doomsday prepper more than anything since Houston lost power for a week. What do you all think?

I think it is great that your DH wants to get solar panels. The more of us who make an effort to switch to renewable energy resources, the better.

In regard to the batteries -- I would skip those. If you have excess electricity in a month, it can simply get sold back via the grid, so there is no need to store the power. With respect to black-outs, power outages usually last only a couple hours in this area. So I don't think there is a real need for the batteries. Lastly, battery technology is improving, and the next generation of batteries will be better than the present generation. So best to skip the batteries for now.

In regard to those posters who think there is some dissonance between having a 5000 square foot house (bad for the environment) and getting solar panels (better for the environment that burning fossil fuels), well, they do have a point, but the fact is that anything you do to reduce your CO2 footprint is helpful. So I hope you go forward with the solar panels.

OP again. Thanks for taking the time to write this. My husband is looking to get these in case we lose electricity. For him, it's not about the environment. The batteries are important to have if you want to have electricity (like your fridge and microwave working) when there is an outage. We haven't lost power for more than 12 hours where we live in MD, so I think his reasoning doesn't make sense. I do agree that batteries are improving and it may be worth it to wait, but it's like waiting for the next generation of iPhone to come out. Will it be a noticeable improvement and how long will I have to wait?

I'm the poster who you just responded to. I'm not a battery expert, but I have a couple neighbors who researched this issue and decided not to install batteries at this time (but to go ahead and install solar panels) because batteries are improving rapidly. In addition, my neighbors learned that they can use their electric vehicle (Tesla, or any other EV) as a battery to store power for one's home. I was told that an EV can provide enough power to run one's home for a solid week. So while one needs to charge up an EV, once it is charged that stored energy can be used to power your home (or the EV). So please raise this issue with your husband. You can kill 2 birds with one stone by using an EV as both your vehicle and your home's emergency power source.

[Anonymous]

Mine were less expensive, but I got them in 2019 when (I'm guessing, based on your DH's #s) the tax credit was also less generous. Batteries definitely weren't included in the credit back then, so I have none. I'm in VA so there were no additional tax credits back then. Payoff estimate was 10 years, and we're on track to meet it. I don't regret it at all; my motivation for installing them was more steward-of-the-earth than saving myself money, but I've done both and would do it again in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I posted above about the math not adding up. FWIW, we have solar + batteries. I think that the solar was a probably worthwhile investment for us, the batteries were just because we wanted them. Honestly, the batteries were a tech splurge more than anything else - though it is nice to know that we'd have some backup power in the event of a long outage.

Agree with the posters asking about the age of your roof. We have a brand new, south facing roof with no trees, so it's the perfect setup for solar. Plus we're planning to stay here for 20+ years. We probably wouldn't have made this investment with an older roof.

Would strongly recommend getting a couple of quotes, plus spend some time digging in to what that battery investment is going to do. You might have to talk to the engineers to really understand it - we thought that some of the salesmen didn't really understand the nuances of the battery systems. My bet is that $10k in batteries probably won't get you too much backup anyways. We spent more than that, and only have some of our circuits on the back system - for example, we should be able to run heat in the winter, but wouldn't be able to do ac during a summer power outage (though we would have ceiling fans, refrigerator, and lights in most rooms)

OP here. We have had a few quotes and Tesla was the least expensive. This was with two batteries for $22000. After credits it goes down to $8000. DH is an electrical engineer so I assume he knows about the battery mechanics. Also, for those wondering, our roof is 3 years old, which is when the house was built.

OK - you must be getting some sort of state level credits that are not available here. Which is great for you, but it's not very helpful to post on a DC forum asking for advice, since we're not getting the same credits that you are. Federal tax credits are 30% - applies to both the solar setup and to the batteries.

Most of the posters on here live in Nova and MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
I posted above about the math not adding up. FWIW, we have solar + batteries. I think that the solar was a probably worthwhile investment for us, the batteries were just because we wanted them. Honestly, the batteries were a tech splurge more than anything else - though it is nice to know that we'd have some backup power in the event of a long outage.

Agree with the posters asking about the age of your roof. We have a brand new, south facing roof with no trees, so it's the perfect setup for solar. Plus we're planning to stay here for 20+ years. We probably wouldn't have made this investment with an older roof.

Would strongly recommend getting a couple of quotes, plus spend some time digging in to what that battery investment is going to do. You might have to talk to the engineers to really understand it - we thought that some of the salesmen didn't really understand the nuances of the battery systems. My bet is that $10k in batteries probably won't get you too much backup anyways. We spent more than that, and only have some of our circuits on the back system - for example, we should be able to run heat in the winter, but wouldn't be able to do ac during a summer power outage (though we would have ceiling fans, refrigerator, and lights in most rooms)



OP here. We have had a few quotes and Tesla was the least expensive. This was with two batteries for $22000. After credits it goes down to $8000. DH is an electrical engineer so I assume he knows about the battery mechanics. Also, for those wondering, our roof is 3 years old, which is when the house was built.


OK - you must be getting some sort of state level credits that are not available here. Which is great for you, but it's not very helpful to post on a DC forum asking for advice, since we're not getting the same credits that you are. Federal tax credits are 30% - applies to both the solar setup and to the batteries.




Most of the posters on here live in Nova and MoCo.

I think we all understand that a DC forum includes those areas. The PP poster meant that this level of credit is not available in all 3 jurisdictions (MD, VA, and DC). When people say "DC" on here, they basically mean the DMV. So I agree that this level of tax credit has to be from a state outside of our area.

[Anonymous]

“Sadly, so many people think of energy purely in terms of dollars and cents for themselves that we will really need to create policy and cost structures that incentivize people to change behavior.”

I walked past a house yesterday that was having solar panels installed. There were piles of beautiful slate shingles in the dumpster that had been removed to put on the panels. I thought - what a waste! They are removing and throwing out good quality, long lasting roofing and replacing it with materials not likely to last 20 years. Then they’ll throw out and replace the new stuff. Rinse and repeat every 20 years. How is that good for the environment?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He says it is $49,000 upfront and a $28,000 tax credit, so $21,000. We spend $150 average on electricity right now, so they will break even in 11-12 years. This seems like a really long time. We have a 5000 square foot home and the panels would be facing west, where a lot of large trees are. Tesla promises they will offset 100% of our bill. He also wants to get two batteries which are $5000 each, I think. I feel like he's being a doomsday prepper more than anything since Houston lost power for a week. What do you all think?

I think it is great that your DH wants to get solar panels. The more of us who make an effort to switch to renewable energy resources, the better.

In regard to the batteries -- I would skip those. If you have excess electricity in a month, it can simply get sold back via the grid, so there is no need to store the power. With respect to black-outs, power outages usually last only a couple hours in this area. So I don't think there is a real need for the batteries. Lastly, battery technology is improving, and the next generation of batteries will be better than the present generation. So best to skip the batteries for now.

In regard to those posters who think there is some dissonance between having a 5000 square foot house (bad for the environment) and getting solar panels (better for the environment that burning fossil fuels), well, they do have a point, but the fact is that anything you do to reduce your CO2 footprint is helpful. So I hope you go forward with the solar panels.

OP again. Thanks for taking the time to write this. My husband is looking to get these in case we lose electricity. For him, it's not about the environment. The batteries are important to have if you want to have electricity (like your fridge and microwave working) when there is an outage. We haven't lost power for more than 12 hours where we live in MD, so I think his reasoning doesn't make sense. I do agree that batteries are improving and it may be worth it to wait, but it's like waiting for the next generation of iPhone to come out. Will it be a noticeable improvement and how long will I have to wait?

I'm the poster who you just responded to. I'm not a battery expert, but I have a couple neighbors who researched this issue and decided not to install batteries at this time (but to go ahead and install solar panels) because batteries are improving rapidly. In addition, my neighbors learned that they can use their electric vehicle (Tesla, or any other EV) as a battery to store power for one's home. I was told that an EV can provide enough power to run one's home for a solid week. So while one needs to charge up an EV, once it is charged that stored energy can be used to power your home (or the EV). So please raise this issue with your husband. You can kill 2 birds with one stone by using an EV as both your vehicle and your home's emergency power source.

This part about EVs is partially true -- it depends on whether your EV is able to send power back out, and it may also require your EV charger to be able to take the power back and put it back into your house. We have an EV and have solar and cannot power anything else off our car (it's a VW ID.4).

However, if you're thinking about the cost savings from storing any excess solar generation in a battery, as opposed to using the battery as a power backup, then an EV is the same as a Tesla PowerWall for those purposes. When we charge our car during the day, we're putting our excess generation into the car and then using it to drive. Which is kind of cool, and also saves us a bit of money because Pepco doesn't buy power back from you when you send it to the grid at the same rate that they charge you to take it from the grid.

[Anonymous]

“Sadly, so many people think of energy purely in terms of dollars and cents for themselves that we will really need to create policy and cost structures that incentivize people to change behavior.”

I walked past a house yesterday that was having solar panels installed. There were piles of beautiful slate shingles in the dumpster that had been removed to put on the panels. I thought - what a waste! They are removing and throwing out good quality, long lasting roofing and replacing it with materials not likely to last 20 years. Then they’ll throw out and replace the new stuff. Rinse and repeat every 20 years. How is that good for the environment?

If they were "beautiful" shingles, they would not have been removed (and what did they put up in their place before adding the solar panels?). And as you say, roofs have to be replaced at a certain interval, usually 30 years. Tesla will remove the solar panels for free and put them back up when it's time to replace the roof. That's the deal we got.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

“Sadly, so many people think of energy purely in terms of dollars and cents for themselves that we will really need to create policy and cost structures that incentivize people to change behavior.”

I walked past a house yesterday that was having solar panels installed. There were piles of beautiful slate shingles in the dumpster that had been removed to put on the panels. I thought - what a waste! They are removing and throwing out good quality, long lasting roofing and replacing it with materials not likely to last 20 years. Then they’ll throw out and replace the new stuff. Rinse and repeat every 20 years. How is that good for the environment?

If they were "beautiful" shingles, they would not have been removed (and what did they put up in their place before adding the solar panels?). And as you say, roofs have to be replaced at a certain interval, usually 30 years. Tesla will remove the solar panels for free and put them back up when it's time to replace the roof. That's the deal we got.

Agree. Solar panels go on top of the shingles, not instead of the shingles. If the slate shingles were being removed, it was because the homeowner was planning a roof replacement anyways.

[Anonymous]

I had 17 kw of solar panels installed in NoVa last year. Cost was $46K. With the tax credit of 30%, cost came to be $32K. Dominion requires you to pay $7 a month for infrastructure. Otherwise, I have paid nothing for electricity. In addition, the panels have provided 9,000 miles of electricity for my EV. My payoff will be 9-10 years but the panels have a warranty for 25 years with a drop off of only 8% efficiency total.

At this moment, batteries are not cost effective. Prices may come down over the next couple of years with the new technologies coming out.

If your DH wants backup, Enphase has the IQ8 microinverters which allow the solar panels to provide power to the house without batteries during a power outage. He can get a smaller battery and allow the solar panels to provide extra power. A second way to do it, is Enphase is coming out with a V2H system in 2024. You can buy a Nissan Leaf which has a 40 kwh battery and costs $26K before the 7500 credit. You would then have double the battery backup of the Tesla Batteries and have a vehicle to drive when you didn't need backup all for less than the Tesla batteries cost.

I have been 100% happy with my solar panels and highly recommend them.

[Anonymous]

Wait, you can get 50% credit on the total cost?! No brainer you should go for it! Your DH is an electrical engineer so he knows what he’s doing. Honestly, tell me where you can get 10% safe investment cash in cash nowadays. Even the payback is 10 years, it’s a good deal financially, plus saving the planet.