Anyone else culturally rich but asset-poor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised by the hostility displayed in this thread towards the genteel “poor.” I can give an example close to home. My husband and I are pretty cultured and sophisticated. I have an Ivy League degree in English Lit and biology and he has a bachelors and a Masters in Arabic studies. Together we make about 250k-300k a year and this is our recent HHI.

I grew up living in Europe and the Middle East due to my parents being diplomats and speak multiple languages. I have sat in small village schools teaching girls to read and dined and wined heads of states. I have friends across the globe even now. My husband went to a local private and speaks French and Arabic. He has traveled the world extensively. When we travel together we love to go to museums and historical sites. In fact we can spend a whole day in a museum and it gives us unparalleled joy. We live in a small apartment filled with books on history, art, art history, business and mathematics. We cook delicious healthy food based on recipes from Asia, the Middle East and France. We live in a close-in suburb but so far cannot afford a nice house in a desirable zip code so a rented apartment is our compromise.

We spend most of our money on organic foods and international travel. We also like to dine out at nice restaurants and occasionally splurge on designer shoes and purses.

We have relatives who are materiality wealthier than we are but they spend their money going to fancy expensive resorts and laying on the beach and like to read the latest best seller. They enjoy buying the newest shiniest gadgets and have outfitted their expensive large single family homes with material goods. They think to be sophisticated is buy the next most expensive thing.

Money doesn’t buy sophistication or class.

Now this is exquisite trolling, thank you. There are a few tells, like diplomatic parents and “local private” but pretty good.

But it’s pretty clear anyone with diplomatic parents would know not to doc themselves like this (like how many Arabic studies majors alone can there be, combined with other facts anyone who knows them would immediately recognize them).

[Anonymous]

When I read this I thought of Mr. Bhaer from Little Women, specifically the Gabriel Byrne/Winona Ryder movie version (clearly I'm not culturally rich - not actual rich either).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised by the hostility displayed in this thread towards the genteel “poor.” I can give an example close to home. My husband and I are pretty cultured and sophisticated. I have an Ivy League degree in English Lit and biology and he has a bachelors and a Masters in Arabic studies. Together we make about 250k-300k a year and this is our recent HHI.

I grew up living in Europe and the Middle East due to my parents being diplomats and speak multiple languages. I have sat in small village schools teaching girls to read and dined and wined heads of states. I have friends across the globe even now. My husband went to a local private and speaks French and Arabic. He has traveled the world extensively. When we travel together we love to go to museums and historical sites. In fact we can spend a whole day in a museum and it gives us unparalleled joy. We live in a small apartment filled with books on history, art, art history, business and mathematics. We cook delicious healthy food based on recipes from Asia, the Middle East and France. We live in a close-in suburb but so far cannot afford a nice house in a desirable zip code so a rented apartment is our compromise.

We spend most of our money on organic foods and international travel. We also like to dine out at nice restaurants and occasionally splurge on designer shoes and purses.

We have relatives who are materiality wealthier than we are but they spend their money going to fancy expensive resorts and laying on the beach and like to read the latest best seller. They enjoy buying the newest shiniest gadgets and have outfitted their expensive large single family homes with material goods. They think to be sophisticated is buy the next most expensive thing.

Money doesn’t buy sophistication or class.

Now this is exquisite trolling, thank you. There are a few tells, like diplomatic parents and “local private” but pretty good.

But it’s pretty clear anyone with diplomatic parents would know not to doc themselves like this (like how many Arabic studies majors alone can there be, combined with other facts anyone who knows them would immediately recognize them).

Diplomat here. I'd be highly disappointed if my kid grew up into the insufferable PP. Sounds to me like they are spoiled and unable to endure the sacrifice needed to get on property ladder... So they wrap themselves in superiority and look down on those around them. Gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little confused by the level of hostility some people are displaying here towards people with less money (ie, the OP). OP didn't say anything insulting about people with money, but some posters seem defensive an are implying there's some sort of moral superiority in having wealth. I think OP was just observing that there are different vectors of privilege, and they felt that they were rich in one but not the other. It's definitely possible to be cultured with or without money, and the same for being uncultured.

OP and/or some others are implying not only a superiority in having genetically granted intellectual abilities, but equating that to equal “culture.” A culture is a set of characteristics, customs, mores, practices, etc. of everyone in a particular group. It is not exclusive to those who enjoy reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am ignoring the sophomoric argument above. You described my family. Two PhDs whose house is full of books--everything from Journey to the West to Terry Pratchett. A friend of mine calls us "the literati." We talk a lot of politics, talk a lot about social justice, and what books we read. However, we are so broke (poor is systemic). It is what it is. We hope our kids also have rich intellectual lives and have a good education. That is what we can give them. I do want to distinguish that it isn't champagne tastes. I don't want anything from Van Cleef & Arpels. I don't care about your NYC or Paris shopping trip. Nor do I care about cars or the size of your house. I just don't care. This means I can't identify with a lot of the people in the DC suburbs. I literally got caught in a convo once about how Kia has a luxury car brand. It was not my thing.

It is interesting that you associate money with shopping, cars or luxury jewelries. Money is much more than that. Money allowed me to take my kids to more than 50 countries around the world and experience different cultures not from books, but to have first hand experience. Money allowed me to send my kids to great private schools that also expand their horizons. For example, when they studied about Ancient Greece in middle school, the traveled to Greece and drove across the country for two weeks as part of their class work. Money allowed us to learn several languages (each family member speaks 4-5 languages). I don't buy jewelry either, even the cheaper ones, but I buy business class flight to Vienna to see Klimt's Kiss one more time even though I've seen it dozen of times before or flight to Amsterdam to see the latest exhibit or concert. Money allowed me not just talk about social justice but actually do something about it. I don't care about your talks because people like you they are just that, talk and no action.

I’m well educated and wealthy, but you’re insufferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised by the hostility displayed in this thread towards the genteel “poor.” I can give an example close to home. My husband and I are pretty cultured and sophisticated. I have an Ivy League degree in English Lit and biology and he has a bachelors and a Masters in Arabic studies. Together we make about 250k-300k a year and this is our recent HHI.

I grew up living in Europe and the Middle East due to my parents being diplomats and speak multiple languages. I have sat in small village schools teaching girls to read and dined and wined heads of states. I have friends across the globe even now. My husband went to a local private and speaks French and Arabic. He has traveled the world extensively. When we travel together we love to go to museums and historical sites. In fact we can spend a whole day in a museum and it gives us unparalleled joy. We live in a small apartment filled with books on history, art, art history, business and mathematics. We cook delicious healthy food based on recipes from Asia, the Middle East and France. We live in a close-in suburb but so far cannot afford a nice house in a desirable zip code so a rented apartment is our compromise.

We spend most of our money on organic foods and international travel. We also like to dine out at nice restaurants and occasionally splurge on designer shoes and purses.

We have relatives who are materiality wealthier than we are but they spend their money going to fancy expensive resorts and laying on the beach and like to read the latest best seller. They enjoy buying the newest shiniest gadgets and have outfitted their expensive large single family homes with material goods. They think to be sophisticated is buy the next most expensive thing.

Money doesn’t buy sophistication or class.

So many of these responses are pure bullshit. It’s someone writing in character. Unfortunately, someone with an English Lit degree would not use the transitive “lay” when describing her relatives relaxing on the beach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The worst thing is, all the people complaining about being poor actually have money!

I noticed that, too. “We make a very humble $300k annually. It’s certainly not much, but we want for nothing because we care not for material goods. Our wealth lies in our intellectual pursuits… [insert a bunch of random author’s carefully selected to sound I pressive].”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised by the hostility displayed in this thread towards the genteel “poor.” I can give an example close to home. My husband and I are pretty cultured and sophisticated. I have an Ivy League degree in English Lit and biology and he has a bachelors and a Masters in Arabic studies. Together we make about 250k-300k a year and this is our recent HHI.

I grew up living in Europe and the Middle East due to my parents being diplomats and speak multiple languages. I have sat in small village schools teaching girls to read and dined and wined heads of states. I have friends across the globe even now. My husband went to a local private and speaks French and Arabic. He has traveled the world extensively. When we travel together we love to go to museums and historical sites. In fact we can spend a whole day in a museum and it gives us unparalleled joy. We live in a small apartment filled with books on history, art, art history, business and mathematics. We cook delicious healthy food based on recipes from Asia, the Middle East and France. We live in a close-in suburb but so far cannot afford a nice house in a desirable zip code so a rented apartment is our compromise.

We spend most of our money on organic foods and international travel. We also like to dine out at nice restaurants and occasionally splurge on designer shoes and purses.

We have relatives who are materiality wealthier than we are but they spend their money going to fancy expensive resorts and laying on the beach and like to read the latest best seller. They enjoy buying the newest shiniest gadgets and have outfitted their expensive large single family homes with material goods. They think to be sophisticated is buy the next most expensive thing.

Money doesn’t buy sophistication or class.

Now this is exquisite trolling, thank you. There are a few tells, like diplomatic parents and “local private” but pretty good.

But it’s pretty clear anyone with diplomatic parents would know not to doc themselves like this (like how many Arabic studies majors alone can there be, combined with other facts anyone who knows them would immediately recognize them).

Diplomat here. I'd be highly disappointed if my kid grew up into the insufferable PP. Sounds to me like they are spoiled and unable to endure the sacrifice needed to get on property ladder... So they wrap themselves in superiority and look down on those around them. Gross.

Full agreement here. Parents thought too much about career and not enough about raising the kids. So the kids turned out to be pretentious losers. Too bad the kid wasn’t strong enough to work around this. Full fail.

[Anonymous]

Yuppies were the “young urban professionals”; these are the NOABEs (not obviously affluent but educated).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Culturally rich = prestigious degree from top university with somewhat prestigious job in a low earning profession, but oops no trust fund or spent it or something went wrong. Married someone similar and neither had any money sense, but feels somehow culturally superior despite those values leading to a less affluent less materially successful lifestyle. Aka came from money but didn’t make money themselves. See: Henry James, Edith Wharton, Theodore Dreiser, EM Forster.

Edith Wharton was crazy rich. Henry James actually wasnt very well off snd Wharton used to secretly fund all sorts of literary contests. She would pass them the James to enter--and he would win!

I’m not talking about the writers silly, rather examples of “culturally rich” characters in their work. And yes, there is significant overlap between this and downward mobility. Bc culturally rich often means personal values developed in privilege but not conducive to attaining acquiring or keeping wealth.

[Anonymous]

So all you wealthy people love to send your kids to fancy universities but look down on the faculty who teach your kids as losers who can’t figure out how to make a million dollars? And the teachers at the fancy private schools who also don’t make a million dollars a year? Who exactly would you like to have teaching your kids? Or do you want to pay faculty a million dollars a year so we aren’t pathetic losers or pretentious twats that you look down on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP means they are well educated, well traveled, own original art, read great books, music...but the bank accounts are thin.

There are so many uncultured, tacky people who work jobs they hate to make huge mortgage and car payment, they buy tattoos, long fake nail and inject stuff into their bodies and their bank accounts are healthy. Go figure.

So, someone can't be well educated, well traveled, own art, read "great" books, and have tattoos? You sound like an ass.

Correct. Truth hurts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am ignoring the sophomoric argument above. You described my family. Two PhDs whose house is full of books--everything from Journey to the West to Terry Pratchett. A friend of mine calls us "the literati." We talk a lot of politics, talk a lot about social justice, and what books we read. However, we are so broke (poor is systemic). It is what it is. We hope our kids also have rich intellectual lives and have a good education. That is what we can give them. I do want to distinguish that it isn't champagne tastes. I don't want anything from Van Cleef & Arpels. I don't care about your NYC or Paris shopping trip. Nor do I care about cars or the size of your house. I just don't care. This means I can't identify with a lot of the people in the DC suburbs. I literally got caught in a convo once about how Kia has a luxury car brand. It was not my thing.

It is interesting that you associate money with shopping, cars or luxury jewelries. Money is much more than that. Money allowed me to take my kids to more than 50 countries around the world and experience different cultures not from books, but to have first hand experience. Money allowed me to send my kids to great private schools that also expand their horizons. For example, when they studied about Ancient Greece in middle school, the traveled to Greece and drove across the country for two weeks as part of their class work. Money allowed us to learn several languages (each family member speaks 4-5 languages). I don't buy jewelry either, even the cheaper ones, but I buy business class flight to Vienna to see Klimt's Kiss one more time even though I've seen it dozen of times before or flight to Amsterdam to see the latest exhibit or concert. Money allowed me not just talk about social justice but actually do something about it. I don't care about your talks because people like you they are just that, talk and no action.

Money also made you insufferable

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a little confused by the level of hostility some people are displaying here towards people with less money (ie, the OP). OP didn't say anything insulting about people with money, but some posters seem defensive an are implying there's some sort of moral superiority in having wealth. I think OP was just observing that there are different vectors of privilege, and they felt that they were rich in one but not the other. It's definitely possible to be cultured with or without money, and the same for being uncultured.

OP and/or some others are implying not only a superiority in having genetically granted intellectual abilities, but equating that to equal “culture.” A culture is a set of characteristics, customs, mores, practices, etc. of everyone in a particular group. It is not exclusive to those who enjoy reading.

Some others may have implied this, but OP did not. They simply wondered if anyone else was in the same boat as them. Then a number of people showed up to tell them they were jealous, insecure, and “just poor.” Not a great look. Seems like it isn’t OP who is the insecure one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, I am ignoring the sophomoric argument above. You described my family. Two PhDs whose house is full of books--everything from Journey to the West to Terry Pratchett. A friend of mine calls us "the literati." We talk a lot of politics, talk a lot about social justice, and what books we read. However, we are so broke (poor is systemic). It is what it is. We hope our kids also have rich intellectual lives and have a good education. That is what we can give them. I do want to distinguish that it isn't champagne tastes. I don't want anything from Van Cleef & Arpels. I don't care about your NYC or Paris shopping trip. Nor do I care about cars or the size of your house. I just don't care. This means I can't identify with a lot of the people in the DC suburbs. I literally got caught in a convo once about how Kia has a luxury car brand. It was not my thing.

It is interesting that you associate money with shopping, cars or luxury jewelries. Money is much more than that. Money allowed me to take my kids to more than 50 countries around the world and experience different cultures not from books, but to have first hand experience. Money allowed me to send my kids to great private schools that also expand their horizons. For example, when they studied about Ancient Greece in middle school, the traveled to Greece and drove across the country for two weeks as part of their class work. Money allowed us to learn several languages (each family member speaks 4-5 languages). I don't buy jewelry either, even the cheaper ones, but I buy business class flight to Vienna to see Klimt's Kiss one more time even though I've seen it dozen of times before or flight to Amsterdam to see the latest exhibit or concert. Money allowed me not just talk about social justice but actually do something about it. I don't care about your talks because people like you they are just that, talk and no action.

Money also made you insufferable

I agree. Their frequent air travel is so gauche. So wasteful and bad for our planet. The Kiss? In all that time in museums, you’d think they’d have developed more original taste.