91 percentile for IAAT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

Funny, my sixth grader had homework like that a few weeks ago. Her teacher was out, so no lesson and she won’t listen to parents, but 5 minutes on khan academy and she understood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

These topics are considered Algebra 2?? Just WOW. Completing the square and radicals are algebra 1 topics. Same with absolute values and inequalities; heck they're introduced in prealgebra!

Except for completing the square, I remember these topics as first appearing up in my algebra 2 class. I don't think they are talking about radicals but instead something like rt x + 3 = 2rt(x-7)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

I was helping someone with algebra homework, where they were factoring quadratics and solving for x. Doing OK thru about 20 questions, then one was x^2-2x =0, and wasn't sure what to do with the factor of just x. Tried to explain for a bit, and they weren't understanding. Then I wrote down x=2 and asked for a solution. Blank stare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

I'm already spoiled teaching gifted kids on the side, and part of me would want to full time teach because I love it... but now I don't think I could do that after what you've described is true in the school system. What would be the point of trying to teach something if the kids are unmotivated and do not learn anything? It would be a waste of both mine and their time, if I teach procedurally without actually imparting any real understanding. It's funny, I thought the kids I'm teaching were doing ok with rigorous material, but it looks like they're actually really good compared to what you've described.

DP, I make more money tutoring Pre-Algebra than anything else. 2-step equations with distributive property and combining like terms is on every parents’ list of “things their teacher says they need help with”….like every single list!

[Anonymous]

The score is very high and it would put him in the 95 percentile for 12th graders. However, he probably took MAP 2-5 that covers material up to 5th grade and not MAP 6+ that would cover concepts all the way to 12th grade. For MAP 6+ that score would typically indicate mastery of functions of polynomials, logarithms, trigonometry etc. Although both tests share a common score scale they are not equivalent particularly at the ends of the scale. The likely reason your child scored well is that he has a very high accuracy on elementary material and he made very few mistakes.

It’s not worth being too concerned about the score unless it is considered for math placement in higher math classes. If that’s the case a MAP 6+ is more appropriate and would give a better picture on where he is for pre algebra/algebra concepts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

They didn't say they didn't have solid foundations, just that they needed more time to get through questions. It is quite possible that someone could do very well in Algebra 1 while scoring less in this way on IAAT.

Anything is possible. Some thing's aren't very likely, and this is one, as teachers say about the subject.

I disagree. I'm a math professor who works with highly gifted math students of all ages. I have found there's a fairly bimodal distribution among top math students in terms of speed. There's a sizable number who are very, very slow--take a long time even on problems that are very easy for them. They are just deliberate and careful. They are the ones who are usually very accurate and also the ones who are tend to think in large numerical systems and are very good at understanding the why of math. Then there's a sizeable number who are very, very fast--they are the ones people readily recognize as math geniuses because they fit the stereotype. They tend to think visually/spatially in their math problems and are very good at intuiting answers without knowing quite why. They can also make a lot of dumb mistakes and don't seem to mind them because they know they are 'on the right track' whereas even a tiny mistake will drive the slower ones crazy and they won't move on until they find it. I always encourage math teachers to allow for more time on tests so that really good students don't get blocked by their more slow, deliberate care and thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is also given to 5th (or 4th graders) who are taking Advanced Math and will take the 7th grade SOL for algebra placement.[/quote]

This. Anyone who will take the 7th grade SOL

This is years later but: ARE there any 5th graders who have gotten to take super-advanced math? I've been trying to get my now-3rd grader eligible to do more challenging math since Kindergarten because she's pretty bored with multi-digit multiplication that she can do in her head even in AAP IV. I got the general message that they always have kids stay in their age-designated classroom; are there kids who actually manage to be instructed with the two-higher grade level math?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is also given to 5th (or 4th graders) who are taking Advanced Math and will take the 7th grade SOL for algebra placement.[/quote]

This. Anyone who will take the 7th grade SOL

This is years later but: ARE there any 5th graders who have gotten to take super-advanced math? I've been trying to get my now-3rd grader eligible to do more challenging math since Kindergarten because she's pretty bored with multi-digit multiplication that she can do in her head even in AAP IV. I got the general message that they always have kids stay in their age-designated classroom; are there kids who actually manage to be instructed with the two-higher grade level math?

DD had a kid in her class take the Iowa test in 5th grade, so they could take Algebra in 6th grade. But - it was clear to everyone that was needed. If you're the only one pushing for this and teachers don't support it, I wouldn't continue on. Some kids are good at numerical math. It doesn't mean they are ready to permanently be placed ahead.