91 percentile for IAAT

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

It is intended to be this awesome, in depth class. Taught well it starts to bring together the how and why of everything they've done up to this point in their math careers, along with discovery of really cool abstract mathematical concepts that will set the foundation for the next 4 years of math. When too many kids who aren't quite ready yet enroll, it gets watered down and is disappointingly basic and just becomes procedural learning. Then no one benefits and parents cry, "See! It really is easy!"

I agree with you that the bolded happens, but my question is why? Why does FCPS find it preferable to water down an Honors class taken 2 years early than to maintain rigor and just let the kids who don't belong earn bad grades? Watering down the class just passes the problem on to the next teacher, and ultimately leads to straight A honors kids being poorly prepared for college.

DP. Where did you get the idea that FCPS has?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

It is intended to be this awesome, in depth class. Taught well it starts to bring together the how and why of everything they've done up to this point in their math careers, along with discovery of really cool abstract mathematical concepts that will set the foundation for the next 4 years of math. When too many kids who aren't quite ready yet enroll, it gets watered down and is disappointingly basic and just becomes procedural learning. Then no one benefits and parents cry, "See! It really is easy!"

I agree with you that the bolded happens, but my question is why? Why does FCPS find it preferable to water down an Honors class taken 2 years early than to maintain rigor and just let the kids who don't belong earn bad grades? Watering down the class just passes the problem on to the next teacher, and ultimately leads to straight A honors kids being poorly prepared for college.

Because it keeps the stakeholders (parents) happier.

As someone who taught the course, there is zero support to hold the line and fail kids. As soon as kids start to struggle, we are brought in and asked what we are doing wrong that isn't making the class accessible to all children. I was told it is a "good thing" that students who failed Math 7 signed up for algebra in 8th, that it shows "a strong desire for achievement". I was told that kids who don't have basic background knowledge for algebra honors in 7th just need more supports, not to be shifted to the class that teaches the basic background knowledge. I lost soooo many planning periods to parent conferences with admin and parents implying that the reason their child was failing was because I "refused to help them" or "wasn't a good teacher". It wasn't just me--it was all teachers on the team. I had to write remediation plans for every single child with a C or below, stating what I, personally, was going to do to help them raise their grade. When was I going to tutor them? What small group supports were they going to get in class? How were we going to scaffold assessments so they could see success?

At some point, in an effort to get some sanity back, the team just looks at last year's test and takes off the hardest questions. We look at the pacing guide for the next unit and replace one of the extensions with an extra review day.

If we actually taught the class as it is meant to be taught, some years we'd have 5-6 kids in EVERY SECTION failing. The amount of paperwork, emotions, and stress that would create just isn't worth it. With slight modifications those kids become C students and the oversight lightens up. We don't get paid enough to fight for what is right. Double my salary and I will hold the line, happily. But when after school remediation is unpaid, evening intervention planning is unpaid, and admin is threatening probational contracts if I can't get more kids to pass...you give in. And once you give in once, it never gets more rigorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

It is intended to be this awesome, in depth class. Taught well it starts to bring together the how and why of everything they've done up to this point in their math careers, along with discovery of really cool abstract mathematical concepts that will set the foundation for the next 4 years of math. When too many kids who aren't quite ready yet enroll, it gets watered down and is disappointingly basic and just becomes procedural learning. Then no one benefits and parents cry, "See! It really is easy!"

I agree with you that the bolded happens, but my question is why? Why does FCPS find it preferable to water down an Honors class taken 2 years early than to maintain rigor and just let the kids who don't belong earn bad grades? Watering down the class just passes the problem on to the next teacher, and ultimately leads to straight A honors kids being poorly prepared for college.

DP. Where did you get the idea that FCPS has?

When David V. was head of middle school math a few years ago, he said as much. When questioned if kids who failed the math 7 SOL should be allowed into 8th grade algebra, he said the two weren't at all related and kids should be supported in any class they enroll in. When asked if the 91 was a strict cutoff for 7th grad algebra why some schools weren't abiding by it, he said it didn't matter and was up to individual schools and if there were kids with 85s who were motivated, then the course should adjust to accept them. Both of these lead to the logical conclusion that it's more important to have high numbers enrolled in the class than to teach the class at a high level that is inaccessible to many kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

It is intended to be this awesome, in depth class. Taught well it starts to bring together the how and why of everything they've done up to this point in their math careers, along with discovery of really cool abstract mathematical concepts that will set the foundation for the next 4 years of math. When too many kids who aren't quite ready yet enroll, it gets watered down and is disappointingly basic and just becomes procedural learning. Then no one benefits and parents cry, "See! It really is easy!"

I agree with you that the bolded happens, but my question is why? Why does FCPS find it preferable to water down an Honors class taken 2 years early than to maintain rigor and just let the kids who don't belong earn bad grades? Watering down the class just passes the problem on to the next teacher, and ultimately leads to straight A honors kids being poorly prepared for college.

Because it keeps the stakeholders (parents) happier.

As someone who taught the course, there is zero support to hold the line and fail kids. As soon as kids start to struggle, we are brought in and asked what we are doing wrong that isn't making the class accessible to all children. I was told it is a "good thing" that students who failed Math 7 signed up for algebra in 8th, that it shows "a strong desire for achievement". I was told that kids who don't have basic background knowledge for algebra honors in 7th just need more supports, not to be shifted to the class that teaches the basic background knowledge. I lost soooo many planning periods to parent conferences with admin and parents implying that the reason their child was failing was because I "refused to help them" or "wasn't a good teacher". It wasn't just me--it was all teachers on the team. I had to write remediation plans for every single child with a C or below, stating what I, personally, was going to do to help them raise their grade. When was I going to tutor them? What small group supports were they going to get in class? How were we going to scaffold assessments so they could see success?

At some point, in an effort to get some sanity back, the team just looks at last year's test and takes off the hardest questions. We look at the pacing guide for the next unit and replace one of the extensions with an extra review day.

If we actually taught the class as it is meant to be taught, some years we'd have 5-6 kids in EVERY SECTION failing. The amount of paperwork, emotions, and stress that would create just isn't worth it. With slight modifications those kids become C students and the oversight lightens up. We don't get paid enough to fight for what is right. Double my salary and I will hold the line, happily. But when after school remediation is unpaid, evening intervention planning is unpaid, and admin is threatening probational contracts if I can't get more kids to pass...you give in. And once you give in once, it never gets more rigorous.

Thanks for your insightful, albeit discouraging, post. Thanks also for hanging in there amidst all this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

Good to know, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

These topics are considered Algebra 2?? Just WOW. Completing the square and radicals are algebra 1 topics. Same with absolute values and inequalities; heck they're introduced in prealgebra!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

These topics are considered Algebra 2?? Just WOW. Completing the square and radicals are algebra 1 topics. Same with absolute values and inequalities; heck they're introduced in prealgebra!

No, they aren’t. I mean, the word “radical” is taught in math 7, but they aren’t solving radical equations.

Algebra 1 factors quadratics. They only solve by factoring, graphing on a calculator, and the quadratic formula.
Algebra 2 introduces solving with square roots and completing the square, as well as graphing them transformationally by hand

Prealgebra only looks at radicals of perfect squares and cubes. They are to “estimate” rad(72) by knowing it will be between rad(64) and rad(81), so should be 8.xxx
Algebra 1 simplifies rad(72) where you prime factor it to get 6rad(2)
Algebra 2 does operations with radicals, ties rational exponents to radicals, and solves radical equations: rad(x+5)=x+7, requiring you to expand the binomial, and then solve the quadratic

Prealgebra evaluates absolute value of a number: |-5|
Algebra 1 evaluates absolute value expressions: |x+5| if x is -7
Algebra 2 solves absolute value equations: |x+5|-2=8 and inequalities and introduces interval notation for compound inequalities (union/intersection) They also graph absolute value functions transformationally on the coordinate plane
Algebra 2 honors solves absolute value equations and inequalities with variables on both sides: |x+5|-2<x-7

It all builds and spirals, but algebra 1 does not typically cover any of those extensions, those are for algebra 1 honors or algebra 2
>

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

These topics are considered Algebra 2?? Just WOW. Completing the square and radicals are algebra 1 topics. Same with absolute values and inequalities; heck they're introduced in prealgebra!

No, they aren’t. I mean, the word “radical” is taught in math 7, but they aren’t solving radical equations.

Algebra 1 factors quadratics. They only solve by factoring, graphing on a calculator, and the quadratic formula.
Algebra 2 introduces solving with square roots and completing the square, as well as graphing them transformationally by hand

Prealgebra only looks at radicals of perfect squares and cubes. They are to “estimate” rad(72) by knowing it will be between rad(64) and rad(81), so should be 8.xxx
Algebra 1 simplifies rad(72) where you prime factor it to get 6rad(2)
Algebra 2 does operations with radicals, ties rational exponents to radicals, and solves radical equations: rad(x+5)=x+7, requiring you to expand the binomial, and then solve the quadratic

Prealgebra evaluates absolute value of a number: |-5|
Algebra 1 evaluates absolute value expressions: |x+5| if x is -7
Algebra 2 solves absolute value equations: |x+5|-2=8 and inequalities and introduces interval notation for compound inequalities (union/intersection) They also graph absolute value functions transformationally on the coordinate plane
Algebra 2 honors solves absolute value equations and inequalities with variables on both sides: |x+5|-2<x-7

It all builds and spirals, but algebra 1 does not typically cover any of those extensions, those are for algebra 1 honors or algebra 2
>

Thank you, this shows how messed up the standards are! How can they teach the quadratic formula in Algebra 1 without teaching how to complete the square?? The proof of the quadratic formula comes by completing the square! Teaching them to plug into the quadratic formula without any understanding of what it means (why there are two roots, what is the discriminant, etc), is akin to giving them a calculator to solve all the problems. No wonder they're failing hard in upper math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I spoke to a teacher who teaches Algebra i in middle school and she said only consider Algebra I in 7th IF your kid is interested in Math AND scores in the 95th percentile or higher on the IAAT. She said in her opinion 91th percentile is too low of a threshold. The class uses high school level books, moves fast, lots of homework, and will count on the high school transcript. Kids who are not ready will also struggle in Algebra II because the won't have the foundation.

MoCo was the same way when I was there, but they opened algebra to far more students. It's insane how much FCPS builds up algebra as a difficult class when it really isn't

The bigger issue is if you sit in algebra for a year in 7th grade and are over your head, you have no way to recover. You can't go back down. It's a big leap for a borderline kid.

Suppose you take algebra in 7th but really struggle. You expunge the grade to save your high school transcript. Then what? Retake the course and still struggle because you're missing foundations? Move down to prealgebra (going from 2 years advanced to on level?) Suppose you take algebra again in 8th. You muddle through and get a B, then move on. You will never be taught how to solve an equation with variables on both sides. This is covered for weeks in math 7 honors, covered for a day in algebra 1 as review, and then utilized for the rest of your high school career.

It's not a hard class at all for a kid with solid foundations. It moves exceedingly quickly though compared to all prior math classes, so a kid who struggles needing time to process will struggle without solid foundations or outside help.

I've taught 8th grade algebra for years and years at one of those schools that lets in kids with below a 91. They almost all, with the exception of 1 really unique kid, have struggled immensely that first quarter. I think they would have been fine in gen ed algebra, but the honors course throws in quite a few extensions from algebra 2 if taught fully, and it's just too much for a kid who is lacking math fluency and quick applications.

Curious what the algebra 2 extensions are that are included in honors algebra 1.

Absolute value equations and inequalities
Rationalizing the denominator
Conjugates
Radical equations
Factoring expressions with multiple variables
Completing the square

I'm probably forgetting some.

These topics are considered Algebra 2?? Just WOW. Completing the square and radicals are algebra 1 topics. Same with absolute values and inequalities; heck they're introduced in prealgebra!

No, they aren’t. I mean, the word “radical” is taught in math 7, but they aren’t solving radical equations.

Algebra 1 factors quadratics. They only solve by factoring, graphing on a calculator, and the quadratic formula.
Algebra 2 introduces solving with square roots and completing the square, as well as graphing them transformationally by hand

Prealgebra only looks at radicals of perfect squares and cubes. They are to “estimate” rad(72) by knowing it will be between rad(64) and rad(81), so should be 8.xxx
Algebra 1 simplifies rad(72) where you prime factor it to get 6rad(2)
Algebra 2 does operations with radicals, ties rational exponents to radicals, and solves radical equations: rad(x+5)=x+7, requiring you to expand the binomial, and then solve the quadratic

Prealgebra evaluates absolute value of a number: |-5|
Algebra 1 evaluates absolute value expressions: |x+5| if x is -7
Algebra 2 solves absolute value equations: |x+5|-2=8 and inequalities and introduces interval notation for compound inequalities (union/intersection) They also graph absolute value functions transformationally on the coordinate plane
Algebra 2 honors solves absolute value equations and inequalities with variables on both sides: |x+5|-2<x-7

It all builds and spirals, but algebra 1 does not typically cover any of those extensions, those are for algebra 1 honors or algebra 2
>

Thank you, this shows how messed up the standards are! How can they teach the quadratic formula in Algebra 1 without teaching how to complete the square?? The proof of the quadratic formula comes by completing the square! Teaching them to plug into the quadratic formula without any understanding of what it means (why there are two roots, what is the discriminant, etc), is akin to giving them a calculator to solve all the problems. No wonder they're failing hard in upper math classes.

And I might also add "rad(x+5)=x+7, requiring you to expand the binomial, and then solve the quadratic".. this is pure algebra 1 manipulation. Any kid who understands what a square root is and what an equation is should understand that you can "square" both sides of the equation. And they don't know how to expand (x+7)^2 ? Oh boy that's just the distributive property (the dreaded and stupid 'FOIL' mnemonic). The standards are clearly based on memorization and arbitrary procedure vs logic and reasoning. Change the standards and develop mathematics logically, and kids will actually understand it more; no wonder they think it's dumb. If nobody explains why something is true, of course it's dumb to them.

And I haven't even gotten to this one: "Algebra 2 solves absolute value equations: |x+5|-2=8"... Do we seriously believe kids in algebra 1 are not capable of understanding what this means?? They don't know how to add 2 to both sides? And they don't understand how to find a number that evaluates to either |10| or |-10| ?? Cmon, this is not algebra 2 material.

[Anonymous]

Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

I'm already spoiled teaching gifted kids on the side, and part of me would want to full time teach because I love it... but now I don't think I could do that after what you've described is true in the school system. What would be the point of trying to teach something if the kids are unmotivated and do not learn anything? It would be a waste of both mine and their time, if I teach procedurally without actually imparting any real understanding. It's funny, I thought the kids I'm teaching were doing ok with rigorous material, but it looks like they're actually really good compared to what you've described.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

I'm already spoiled teaching gifted kids on the side, and part of me would want to full time teach because I love it... but now I don't think I could do that after what you've described is true in the school system. What would be the point of trying to teach something if the kids are unmotivated and do not learn anything? It would be a waste of both mine and their time, if I teach procedurally without actually imparting any real understanding. It's funny, I thought the kids I'm teaching were doing ok with rigorous material, but it looks like they're actually really good compared to what you've described.

Is there an Algebra book you use/recommend?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Lolololol

Please come teach for 1 day, pp.

No, 90% of algebra 1 students cannot solve absolute value equations because half of them can’t solve 3x+5=12. When I taught algebra 1 I spent the whole year showing 10 ways to sunday why 3+4(x+1) is not 7(x+1) and -x^2 /= (-x)^2. Literally, spent the year on order of operations. Final exam in June and I put “evaluate x^2 if x =-6 as a freebie question and half the class put -36. These were 8th grade honors algebra students (so theoretically advanced). Now imagine what it looks like in a 9th grade classroom with kids who struggled in prealgebra.

Honors algebra is supposed to teach what it seems you want an algebra course to be. The vast, vast majority of kids cannot handle that in 7/8/9th grade. So the regular standards are lower, and often the honors course is watered down to accommodate those who sign up against the recommendation of prior math teachers.

Your perception is skewed.

But seriously, consider teaching. For some unfathomable reason we are bleeding good math teachers so there will be plenty of openings next year. Bonus, after a few years you can do summer work for the state on curriculum redesign to make all the classes more rigorous.

I'm already spoiled teaching gifted kids on the side, and part of me would want to full time teach because I love it... but now I don't think I could do that after what you've described is true in the school system. What would be the point of trying to teach something if the kids are unmotivated and do not learn anything? It would be a waste of both mine and their time, if I teach procedurally without actually imparting any real understanding. It's funny, I thought the kids I'm teaching were doing ok with rigorous material, but it looks like they're actually really good compared to what you've described.

Is there an Algebra book you use/recommend?

I use the AoPS books, including their Intro to Algebra book when I'm teaching.