So tired of the crappy housing stock in the DMV combined with skyrocketing prices

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I could deal with the high prices if it didn't buy such garbage. There are so many houses in DC and the suburbs selling in the $1-1.2m range that are just... bad. Ugly flips, cheaply built new developments, houses in desperate need of major updates.

I used to live in California and before I moved to the DMV (about 15 years ago) I felt like the cost of housing there was insane. And it is. But it has been eclipsed in the DMV, but for much uglier, poor quality houses.

Look at this bungalow in an LA suburbs (Monrovia, which has decent schools and is a nice little community but still good proximity to LA -- a perfect suburb compromise if you have some WFH flexibility). Yes, it's on the small side (3/2, so still plenty big enough for a small family with 1-2 kids). But it's beautiful, updated, in a nice neighborhood, and has great outdoor spaces. For $1.2m.

In the DMV, $1.2m buys you a cramped row house on the Hill with no outdoor space, or a completely unrenovated home in one of the close in suburbs, or an ugly McMansion further out with cheap finishes and no charm.

I'm not just saying housing here is too expensive. It's expensive, and that's driven by demand, and while it's a lot, that's what it costs to live here. I'm saying the housing stock is freaking ugly and in poor shape and you wind up spending money for location and schools but the houses themselves suck. There are so few good houses here, even when you have money to spend. It's just depressing.

Life is full of choices. You choose to live here. You could choose to go elsewhere. Quit whining. It's pathetic.

I'm noticing a pattern that you're probably the same poster who keeps writing about life being about choices in a lot of different threads. For someone who claims to be so happy with your choices, you sure sound bitter and angry. About what I wonder, if your life is so amazing?

This.
I roll my eyes at the people talking about life being about choices. People choices are limited to their options.

Life is not so black and white.

+1
The “choices” people are simultaneously too proud yet still angry.

[Anonymous]

I agree OP. We were visiting family over the holidays in the Chicago area and I’d forgotten how many attractive and affordable neighborhoods there are. If it hadn’t been 25 below zero while we were there, I would’ve been tempted to move back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here -- sorry, I realized I failed to include the link!

https://bungalowsandcottages.com/properties/listing/crmls/AR22260198/Monrovia/216-Monroe-Place

That is a stinking cute house.

OP you are right! That house is adorable and so much better than what you can get in my neighborhood (Arlington) for that price!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

NP. Generally accepted. Have you been to towns like Bronxville or Wellesley?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Same. Spouse is now fully remote and I'm only in the office 2x a week so I'm moving back to the Baltimore area (Ruxton/Roland Park/Homeland) where $1mm goes a long way.

Homes in North Baltimore are drastically nicer than anywhere in the DMV between $500,000 and $1M. There is no neighborhood around here as nice as Roland Park and Homeland.

[Anonymous]

Yep, 100 percent agree! Don’t completely despair though. My family managed to find and buy our dream house (to us) that was affordable (barely) last summer. It’s possible to find a hidden gem here and there although it isn’t easy.

[Anonymous]

I think most people in this area have been house poor so long, they just don’t have the money to remodel. There’s no excuse for all the hideous new builds though. So offensively ugly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

Not trying to be rude at all but have you been to the northeast? Much more charm and character, tasteful architecture, small towns, beautiful landscaping, fewer strip malls and highways. I’ve heard Chicago suburbs are similar. DC area suburbs are a sprawl of tiny brick boxes and infill garage monsters broken up by sad strip malls on mini highways.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You don't even have to go all the way to California. The housing stock and neighborhoods are much nicer in the traditional NE suburbs of Philly and NY, with good/better schools and equivalent prices.

Does NY really have nicer neighborhoods and similar pricing? I thought it was more expensive.

- someone who lives in NYC area

NY suburbs are more expensive overall on a per foot basis, especially taking into account property taxes, but there's much more attractive housing stock at all price ranges. If you go further out to say Fairfield county the prices are pretty similar to closer-in DC suburbs like Arlington and Bethesda, but the houses/towns are a lot nicer than what you get an hour outside of DC.

You mean Fairfield in CT? That’s far out there! Don’t think it is really a sustainable commute if you need to get into the city.

Fairfield county, yes. Tons of people commute to the city from there - there are express trains I think from at least Greenwich. It’s like 45 mins to grand central. Not saying it’s great (I said further out…) but it’s a common commute.

You’re right - I was thinking Fairfield the city which is way further out but yes, Greenwich/Stamford are common commutes

I live in Fairfield county (east of Stamford) and I would not say tons of people do the commute. Most families I know work locally, and it is relatively common for one spouse to have a job where they are in the city 1-2 days a week. No one has a job where they’re in the city every day, or where both spouses spend time in the city. Unless you live right on grand central, the commute to the city is brutal. And forget about driving, it’s 2+ hours.

That said, yes it is much nicer than anywhere even close to the DMV, but that’s because northeastern suburbs from Philly to Boston are just much more aesthetically pleasing. I think it’s due to a combination of the DMV being built for government workers of modest incomes, and lax southern zoning restrictions. You want more columns on that fake brick McMansion? You got it, that’s freedom! More four lane roads and strip malls? Yes, businesses love those! Giant county run schools that look like prisons? Perfect, keeps our tax bills low.

Is this a generally accepted belief or just your opinion? Asking since I don’t have a clue. I didn’t know the DMV was considered ugly… I thought suburbs anywhere were just suburbs and have different kinds of houses Depending on where you look.

The DMV is exceptionally ugly relative to other large metro areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Get over yourself. Monrovia is to downtown LA as Laurel is to downtown DC. That's what you should be comparing to Monrovia, not a row house on Capitol Hill.

This. Do apples to apples and come back

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Get over yourself. Monrovia is to downtown LA as Laurel is to downtown DC. That's what you should be comparing to Monrovia, not a row house on Capitol Hill.

This. Do apples to apples and come back

Go back and read the thread. You can't find attractive housing stock in Laurel either, not like the house in Monrovia.

I feel like the closest you could come would be like Takoma Park, which does have cute bungalows. But a house in TP updated and in the condition of the Monrovia house would cost a lot more. And you'd have to really hunt for it. There are just so few really cute houses in this area. We actually like some of the mid-century modern homes in this area -- the Charles Goodman et al stuff. They can be tricky to update but at least they have some thoughtful design and aesthetically pleasing architecture. But they are hard to find and then often aren't near good schools. There's one on the market now, but it needs a total gut, down to the studs, and is designated historic so it's a huge undertaking and probably not worth the headache.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are comparing apples to oranges.

The examples you provided in CA or not in the city. They are suburbs of LA. DC is a city. Like for like would be like SF city to DC city. Like for like, DC is still cheaper than SF city.

You can get nice sfh in the DC suburbs for under $1mil.

I lived in SoCal for 25 years, then SF Bay area for another 15. DC area home prices are expensive, but not like CA expensive.

No, you cannot.

PG County counts as DC suburbs. You can definitely find one there. Also in the less popular parts of Montgomery county are less than 1 mil.

but it's not the minorities they want to be around

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Same. Spouse is now fully remote and I'm only in the office 2x a week so I'm moving back to the Baltimore area (Ruxton/Roland Park/Homeland) where $1mm goes a long way.

Homes in North Baltimore are drastically nicer than anywhere in the DMV between $500,000 and $1M. There is no neighborhood around here as nice as Roland Park and Homeland.

Hmm maybe Chevy Chase but you're right. Baltimore City had homes built for the rich and you can tell.