Forum Index
»
Political Discussion
Jeff, What do you think about Helen Thomas' comments?
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
|
18:12 back again. Thanks for the reasoned responses.
I think my difficulty was that I assumed Helen Thomas was not speaking literally -- she was not literally advocating that every person of Jewish faith pack bags and board a bus for somewhere else, regardless of when or how that Jew arrived in Palestine. I didn't think she was speaking about individual Jews, who clearly have lived in Palestine for many generations, if not centuries. If that's what she meant (i.e., ethnic cleansing"), then it's clearly very offensive, and also just downright stupid. Instead, I interpreted her comments as a political statement (since she is a political reporter, after all), suggesting that Jews (i.e., Israel) should give up its claim to sovereignty over Palestinian lands (i.e., "get the hell out"). I thought she was trying (badly, obviously) to say that Palestinians should be permitted to reclaim their lands from Israel. That political position is one I'd consider highly debatable and perhaps incorrect or wrongheaded, but not so extreme as to be labeled blatantly offensive. I also assumed that Helen Thomas did not mean any Jews choosing to leave should be forced to go live in Poland/Germany where previous generations had faced genocide. Because she tossed in "and America and everywhere else," I assumed she was saying Jews should simply go live wherever they want, but rather should just quit trying to claim Palestinian lands as their political birthright. All that said, I probably was giving her too much credit in my interpretation, since pretty much every intelligent person in the US seems to view it the other way. Also, even if she did mean it politically and not literally, she deserves criticism for speaking so inaccurately and thoughtlessly on such a difficult issue. Thanks to all for the education and information. |
Anonymous
I agree with all of your interpretations, but not all of your opinions. I don't think that the idea of Palestinians reclaiming their land is wrongheaded or incorrect. Also, there are many intelligent Americans who oppose Zionism. I do agree with your opinion that she was thoughtless, and perhaps inaccurate. |
Anonymous
| I think that her parents are both Lebanese immigrants. If so, she may have family who lost land there. |
Anonymous
|
I had a friend who lived in Palestine for about a year. She said life was so miserable there as compared to living in Israel. She said the Palestinians lived in refugee camps. There were no refugee camps for the Israeli's though. The Palestinian had to ration water and could only wash clothes and take showers during certain parts of the day when the water was turned on. No such rationing was forced upon the Israeli's though. She said they had unpaved roads and dilapidated houses everywhere. But in Israel streets were paved, everything was clean and modern. She said the checkpoints meant you would have to wait in line forever to go to your job in Israel. According to her there were great differences in the way palestinians were treated. So we have to understand the palestinian frustrations as legitimate and that Israel isn't exactly the friend who will lend a helping hand to fix this problem, especially not as they continue to build new settlements despite the entire world asking them to stop.
So it was with an understanding of this frustration that Helen Thomas spoke on behalf of all palestinians. Should we blame her frustration? I don't think so. Had Helen Thomas said "Jews should have been given or move to the state of Florida or the state of California" there would still have been a backlash but not as much. It is because she mentioned Germany where so many Jews were murdered that her comment showed insensitivity. I honestly think at the moment, she was thinking of history. I think it's a bit of a stretch to call her comment anti-semitic. That argument is going to get tired and old one day. She's arguing that people whose land was taken from them should have their land returned to them. Not to get off the subject but one day the Palestinians will vastly outnumber the Jews there. This is because their birth rate is higher. When that happens, it will be hard to continue to curtail the rights of the majority palestinians and maintain the rights of the minority Jews. I don't think Jews should get out of Israel though, whether they be a minority or majority. The UN granted them statehood and the international community, including the Palestinians have to accept that. That said, Israel better think hard and fast about not just a two state solution, but an equitable two state solution, before the palestinians achieve a majority there. |
Anonymous
| Indeed, there are some who believe that the West Bank has become so integrated into Israeli life that the Palestinians might as well give up and demand Israeli citizenship and full rights. I know it would be difficult for people to accept that but I think it has its merits. |
Anonymous
FWIW, there are at least two of us (possibly more -- it's hard to tell one Anonymous from another) who have expressed a favorable attitude to the one-state solution. |
Anonymous
| Her comments were horrible. If you are solution oriented stop defending comments from left-field from either side, and look for constructive people to ally with. |
Anonymous
Yes I used to avoid talking about this or even entertaining it as an option because in the Jewish community it is seen as a buzz-word for "throwing the Jews into the sea" and I'm not naive enough to think that there aren't some Palestinians who feel that way. I don't know if it is a viable option but the reality is that I don't believe in countries where one ethnic/religious group gets more rights than others such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. And I'm sorry to say it but while I might believe that Israel is fairer than other countries in the Middle East it really isn't that close to the United States in attempts to provide equal treatment to all. I don't see why Israel should get a pass on things we would criticize here in the United States. That said, the only way I think a one state solution is viable (and it's quite a long shot at that) is for Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza to demand annexation into Israel and full citizenship. If I were a Palestinian would I be able to bring myself to demand that? Probably not. But given the amount of control Israel now has over the West Bank, especially since it has commandeered the vast majority of the West Bank's water and built so many settlements that the map of land controlled by Palestinians looks like Alpine lace swiss cheese, I don't see that it's likely that Israel will ever let go of the land. And that's part of the trap that Israel has built for itself. The Jewish Israelis don't want the Palestinians in the Territories to become Israeli citizens. Yet they depend so much on resources from the West Bank it would be difficult for them to let go of it. It's a terrible choice but it's either continue to dominate and control the West Bank in a highly anti-democratic manner at odds with purported Israeli values or learn to live without the West Bank's water and land (and drag thousands of right wing settlers back to Israel) or make Palestinians citizens and adopt a one-state solution. |
Anonymous
Well, there are some Palestinians waiting for that to happen, then next they have 10 kids per woman, and viola Palestine again. |
Anonymous
| Exactly. I think that Israel wants to make life so miserable for the palestinians that they want nothing but a two state solution. But what they have now realized, I think, is that the palestinians are so determined and stubborn that they are not willing to accept an unfair two state solution. They will hold out until eternity. When the palestinian population far exceeds the israeli population, they'll have a crisis on their hands. |
Anonymous
|
Anonymous
Her first sentence could be construed as wanting Israel out of Gaza and the West Bank, but when she said they should go back where they came from, Germany, Poland, America or anyplace else, it seemed clear she was talking about Jews getting out of Greater Palestine. |
Anonymous
| yes. why would she not say 'go back to israel'? Her comments were awful Adios Helen! |
Anonymous
It seemed to me that Helen Thomas started out by talking about Israel the nation, and it was the interviewer who really led the discussion toward where individual Jews might go (Nesenoff: "So you're saying ...."). And when he did that, Helen Thomas's response was to again focus on the Palestinians ("Why push people out of there ...?"). I'm not defending Helen Thomas, but it's not so clear to me that she was advocating a mass exodus of Jews from the region. Here is the text of the interview, which someone else helpfully posted a couple pages ago.
|
Anonymous
I'm sorry, but even though I'm willing to give Helen a bit of a pass because of her age, I think the Rabbi was the one who was reacting to what must have been, to him, a pretty surprising series of statements. In particular, it was Thomas who brought up Germany and Poland, pretty much out of nowhere. Even at that, when he asked where they should go, the natural answer would have been "Back inside Israel's recognized borders." |