Reasonable income for family of 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My family feels perfectly comfortable at $160K.
With 2 kids.
2K Mortgage payment.

Unfortunately you can’t get a 2k mortgage in a good neighborhood anymore (Good neighborhood is essential for this question since "good public school" falls in line with reasonable, we’re assuming we don’t have enough money for private). You’d have to try 3-5k mortgage payment for a SFH in a decent school district with the current rates and house prices.

Good is subjective but you absolutely can. We also live very comfortably and had a $2K mortgage. We worked hard to pay it off and now very comfortable with no mortgage.

You seemed to have missed the point- considering you already paid off your $2k mortgage, I'm guessing you bought a long time ago, no? When $2k per month would have been considered expensive....but what is the mortgage in your neighborhood for someone who has purchased a home recently?

I bought a townhouse 20 years ago in arlington for an $1850 mortgage. I made $120k as a single person and it was tight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:100k/child

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

Funny. I would say the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE I am providing a good upbringing to my kids that I don't freak out over being in the "right" school district. I trust in my parenting and values. Now if I were less involved or my kids were having a bad upbringing, then maybe it would be more important to enroll them in the "right" schools to get things they weren't getting at home or because they didn't have the positive home influence to negate negative things at school. But why would families providing their kids with a good and reasonable life need schools to do that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

... Not for a family of 4

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

Funny. I would say the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE I am providing a good upbringing to my kids that I don't freak out over being in the "right" school district. I trust in my parenting and values. Now if I were less involved or my kids were having a bad upbringing, then maybe it would be more important to enroll them in the "right" schools to get things they weren't getting at home or because they didn't have the positive home influence to negate negative things at school. But why would families providing their kids with a good and reasonable life need schools to do that?

The reality is that children spend a lot of time at school and around peers. The school definitely matters. Involved parents and good schools are needed. It isn't all or nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

That $90k median is highly misleading. On the one hand, the poor get tons of subsidies (free housing, free meals, free daycare, free transit, etc). But once those subsidies phase out, you actually need to make a lot more than just $90k to be comfortable on your own. So a family at $90k is probably struggling to make ends meet in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Define “around here” - DMV suburbs inside the beltway? Outside the beltway? In DC specifically? What area (Falls Church, McLean, Bethesda, Silver Spring?)

I would say you can “scrape by” on 150k, and be comfortable (but still feel middle class and worry about money) at 300k. To not feel middle class, 600k+.

Anyone who feels middle close on an HHI >$400k either has a spending problem or a very warped sense of middle class. Middle class is not private school, luxury cars, and regular international vacations.

Totally depends who you ask. DH makes $400k and would vehemently deny we could afford any of those three things.

You're missing the point entirely. Those things are upper class (or at least UMC), not middle class.

These things are definitely NOT middle class or upper middle class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My version of a middle class life is for a family of 4:

3br/2ba home (which is a TH in the suburbs
Cars you drive into the ground 10+ years
No cell phones for the kids until they can afford it in their own
No cars for the kids unless they can buy in their own
Funding college at 50% in a state school
Two incomes each maxing out 401k, retirement no earlier than 59 1/2, but most likely 65
No international vacations whatsoever.
The family MAYBE gets in an airplane every 2 years
Dining out 2xs a month
Packed work lunches daily if not expensed


This could be accomplished on 200k/yr and should leave some room for cash savings.

However people’s ideas of middle class are warped.

$200K isn't middle class and you can do that on much less. If you cannot afford to fund a state college on that income, and pay for cell phones something is very off.

I absolutely cannot do that on much less and I have the tracking spreadsheet to prove it. We are a two income family (heath are worker and commercial construction field). We bring him around 9200/mo and every single penny is accounted for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

Funny. I would say the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE I am providing a good upbringing to my kids that I don't freak out over being in the "right" school district. I trust in my parenting and values. Now if I were less involved or my kids were having a bad upbringing, then maybe it would be more important to enroll them in the "right" schools to get things they weren't getting at home or because they didn't have the positive home influence to negate negative things at school. But why would families providing their kids with a good and reasonable life need schools to do that?

The reality is that children spend a lot of time at school and around peers. The school definitely matters. Involved parents and good schools are needed. It isn't all or nothing.

Former teacher here, and I agree there needs to be a balance. My kids attend a diverse school, which we love (MCPS Focus school). But there are other MCPS schools with significant challenges. More time on classroom management means less teaching, which adds up over time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

Funny. I would say the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE I am providing a good upbringing to my kids that I don't freak out over being in the "right" school district. I trust in my parenting and values. Now if I were less involved or my kids were having a bad upbringing, then maybe it would be more important to enroll them in the "right" schools to get things they weren't getting at home or because they didn't have the positive home influence to negate negative things at school. But why would families providing their kids with a good and reasonable life need schools to do that?

The reality is that children spend a lot of time at school and around peers. The school definitely matters. Involved parents and good schools are needed. It isn't all or nothing.

Former teacher here, and I agree there needs to be a balance. My kids attend a diverse school, which we love (MCPS Focus school). But there are other MCPS schools with significant challenges. More time on classroom management means less teaching, which adds up over time.

But as a PP pointed out, if you're providing your kids with a good upbringing, that shouldn't be a problem. As a former teacher you should be able to supplement if needed.

[Anonymous]

TOTALLY depends on when/if you bought a house and student loans and number of children and where you live.

If you bought a house in 2012, have no student loans, two pre-schoolers, and work from home, you can live in Clarksburg or Manassas and have a nice life on $150K, maybe less. (And don't give me $#&^ about "bUt ThEn YoU HaVe To LiVe iN....." because that is rude and elitist.)

If you have yet to purchase a home, have student loans, two pre-schoolers, and work in downtown DC, you are going to want to make $300 to feel like you aren't treading water most months. Maybe more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Reasonable lifestyle?” $250k. It would include penny pinching & thrift, though.

Our combined HHI is close to this and its fine. It doesn't mean we can spend willy nilly but I feel fortunate not to sweat the small stuff like my parents did (and still do).

+1. We don’t really budget and still max out retirement savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:TOTALLY depends on when/if you bought a house and student loans and number of children and where you live.

If you bought a house in 2012, have no student loans, two pre-schoolers, and work from home, you can live in Clarksburg or Manassas and have a nice life on $150K, maybe less. (And don't give me $#&^ about "bUt ThEn YoU HaVe To LiVe iN....." because that is rude and elitist.)

If you have yet to purchase a home, have student loans, two pre-schoolers, and work in downtown DC, you are going to want to make $300 to feel like you aren't treading water most months. Maybe more.

I think $300k is still very high... "reasonable" is subjective, though. I could reasonably stay at a Super 8 while others would scoff and say that's totally unreasonable. I don't have tons of money, but I prioritize what is important to me and I am never stressed about money.

- $250k, own townhouse close in, work downtown, full pay for private school (which is as much as two daycares), paid off loans, still have plenty for domestic travel and dining out

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, the median household income in DC is closer to 90K. So people saying they can't get by on 200K are big old whiners.

Most people do it.

What they mean is: I can't live in a house in Bethesda that looks like the one I grew up in on a household income of 150K. Which is true. But no one is entitled to live in one of the most expensive neighborhoods in the country on an upper middle class salary. Living in a neighborhood "with good schools" (quotes because we all know that good schools can be found in many neighborhoods) is a luxury good. Not an entitlement.

+1. You want high performing schools, you need to pay for it. Middle class = middle performing public schools, or pay for Catholic.

See, I would disagree with this. If you are providing a "reasonable" upbringing to your kids, they have to be in decent or good public schools. With the decline of public schools today, most public schools are a mess of disruptive and violent children, worn down teachers etc. it’s not reasonable to force your kids into that environment. I’m not saying every kid needs to go to McLean High or Walt Whitman High or Thomas Jefferson. Places like Quince Orchard High, Sherwood High, Robinson Secondary, Washington Liberty High are fine. They’re OK. But you cannot get into those areas in a SFH with a 2k mortgage right now. Houses there sell for 600k minimum. For a reasonable amount of square footage and 4 beds, try 750k+.

20906 schools really aren’t acceptable if you’re aiming to provide your family with a good and reasonable life.

Funny. I would say the opposite. It is precisely BECAUSE I am providing a good upbringing to my kids that I don't freak out over being in the "right" school district. I trust in my parenting and values. Now if I were less involved or my kids were having a bad upbringing, then maybe it would be more important to enroll them in the "right" schools to get things they weren't getting at home or because they didn't have the positive home influence to negate negative things at school. But why would families providing their kids with a good and reasonable life need schools to do that?

The reality is that children spend a lot of time at school and around peers. The school definitely matters. Involved parents and good schools are needed. It isn't all or nothing.

Former teacher here, and I agree there needs to be a balance. My kids attend a diverse school, which we love (MCPS Focus school). But there are other MCPS schools with significant challenges. More time on classroom management means less teaching, which adds up over time.

does it? link?