I have a freshman at Poolesville smacs program AMA

[Anonymous]

Smacs sophomore parent here. My kid truly has a tribe and calling at PHS. She has had a 4.0 since she started. She is very organized, works hard to invest time in other classes beised science and math. She has a 99% I'm Precal so that is definitely where she shines. SAT's are coming so we are excited about that. She does wake at 5:30a but she is happy to get to school and comes off the bus happy every day. She has friends but had to give up archery as there is no team in poolesville.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

The new criteria favored the more naturally gifted over the prep squad. As a teacher, I could see the crop was more able to pick up new concepts and adapt compared with the kids admitted under the old system who often struggled to keep up since all that prep made them appear gifted but the reality was they were just average kids. Many of the new kids started out with less but quickly surpassed the kids admitted under the old system because of their innate talent.

I am one of the people calling out those who suggest the old way connected more "geniuses," but I don't really buy this either. The kids who prepped were, for the most part, excellent students (& often ahead in math, because of enrichment). Many my kid's year are off to top colleges. Though, with the extent of enrichment, they may have done just as well at their home school. I like that the new system is uncovering kids who will really benefit from the in-school enrichment, but I really just think MCPS needs more seats overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

The new criteria favored the more naturally gifted over the prep squad. As a teacher, I could see the crop was more able to pick up new concepts and adapt compared with the kids admitted under the old system who often struggled to keep up since all that prep made them appear gifted but the reality was they were just average kids. Many of the new kids started out with less but quickly surpassed the kids admitted under the old system because of their innate talent.

I am one of the people calling out those who suggest the old way connected more "geniuses," but I don't really buy this either. The kids who prepped were, for the most part, excellent students (& often ahead in math, because of enrichment). Many my kid's year are off to top colleges. Though, with the extent of enrichment, they may have done just as well at their home school. I like that the new system is uncovering kids who will really benefit from the in-school enrichment, but I really just think MCPS needs more seats overall.

What are you even talking about, the new system is better??? Are you kidding me, first of all mcps is NOW and the past couple of years has been using data from map m and map r to select for magnet prgms, a testing system that is based on students who have outside enrichment via parental help (ie rich people) and not on innate ability (COGAT testing which has been shown to be a better indicator of innate ability than any other test). Mcps is not helping the natural talent smart kids in the system, but pandering to those that have been pushed into classes by their tiger parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

The new criteria favored the more naturally gifted over the prep squad. As a teacher, I could see the crop was more able to pick up new concepts and adapt compared with the kids admitted under the old system who often struggled to keep up since all that prep made them appear gifted but the reality was they were just average kids. Many of the new kids started out with less but quickly surpassed the kids admitted under the old system because of their innate talent.

I am one of the people calling out those who suggest the old way connected more "geniuses," but I don't really buy this either. The kids who prepped were, for the most part, excellent students (& often ahead in math, because of enrichment). Many my kid's year are off to top colleges. Though, with the extent of enrichment, they may have done just as well at their home school. I like that the new system is uncovering kids who will really benefit from the in-school enrichment, but I really just think MCPS needs more seats overall.

What are you even talking about, the new system is better??? Are you kidding me, first of all mcps is NOW and the past couple of years has been using data from map m and map r to select for magnet prgms, a testing system that is based on students who have outside enrichment via parental help (ie rich people) and not on innate ability (COGAT testing which has been shown to be a better indicator of innate ability than any other test). Mcps is not helping the natural talent smart kids in the system, but pandering to those that have been pushed into classes by their tiger parents.

Not the PP but have to agree with them. The new system seems to capture the best and brightest from all schools whereas the older one which included many bright kids often favored a few affluent areas that invested heavily in outside enrichment. I'm saying this as a parent of kids who got in under both systems. Now to be clear I'm talking about prepandemic and I also agree with the PP that there really needs to be more seats. The one thing the MS lottery has made clear is a lot more kids can do this work than many had believed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

The new criteria favored the more naturally gifted over the prep squad. As a teacher, I could see the crop was more able to pick up new concepts and adapt compared with the kids admitted under the old system who often struggled to keep up since all that prep made them appear gifted but the reality was they were just average kids. Many of the new kids started out with less but quickly surpassed the kids admitted under the old system because of their innate talent.

I am one of the people calling out those who suggest the old way connected more "geniuses," but I don't really buy this either. The kids who prepped were, for the most part, excellent students (& often ahead in math, because of enrichment). Many my kid's year are off to top colleges. Though, with the extent of enrichment, they may have done just as well at their home school. I like that the new system is uncovering kids who will really benefit from the in-school enrichment, but I really just think MCPS needs more seats overall.

What are you even talking about, the new system is better??? Are you kidding me, first of all mcps is NOW and the past couple of years has been using data from map m and map r to select for magnet prgms, a testing system that is based on students who have outside enrichment via parental help (ie rich people) and not on innate ability (COGAT testing which has been shown to be a better indicator of innate ability than any other test). Mcps is not helping the natural talent smart kids in the system, but pandering to those that have been pushed into classes by their tiger parents.

PP here. Not sure why you need to conflagrate the issue with things I didn't say. I didn't say better. I said what I liked, which is the inclusion of diversity and less ability to prep. You fail to understand that CoGAT doesn not measure innate ability, and that there was test prep for it. Same with the county-wide test previously. I'd personally love to see teacher recs come back. The magnets were far more dominated by tiger cubs in previous years. I have been a mag parent and worked in the schools for the past 10 years. The prepping and loads of enrichment will always be a problem. As I said previously I think the answer is more seats, frankly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does a kid have to love math to tolerate having a longer school day than everyone else?

The Long day is brutal, you have to REALLY love math. Kids wake up at 5:30-6 am to take a 6:45 bus and many don’t get home until 5-5:30 pm. It’s ridiculous that the hardest program at Poolesville is the one with the longest day. Many kids don’t go to bed until like 1 a.m. almost everyday, not just several times a quarter before a big test/project. It’s almost everyday on very little sleep.

That sounds unbelievably unhealthy. Mentally, emotionally, and physically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does a kid have to love math to tolerate having a longer school day than everyone else?

The Long day is brutal, you have to REALLY love math. Kids wake up at 5:30-6 am to take a 6:45 bus and many don’t get home until 5-5:30 pm. It’s ridiculous that the hardest program at Poolesville is the one with the longest day. Many kids don’t go to bed until like 1 a.m. almost everyday, not just several times a quarter before a big test/project. It’s almost everyday on very little sleep.

That sounds unbelievably unhealthy. Mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Yes. SMCS is for gifted students. Please stop pushing non-gifted students in the name of equity to this program. These kids are suffering. Be happy with the bright kids you have. Why is that not enough for parents? Why do they want their kid to be a genius when they don't have the talent and natural ability.

Please don't try and lower ceilings to accommodate everyone. It is supposed to be for highly gifted children and no one is benefiting from MCPS diluting the program for kids who are suffering to fit in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard many teacher doesn’t like to travel to poolesville so some classes are taught by inconsistent substitutes.

You heard wrong. What I know is that teachers actually love PHS because it is at least 3/4th magnet, with a well-behaved high performing student body (#1 in MD) and everybody is focused on education. Unlike Blair which is like a school within a school. Outside of the magnet program, the student body is really struggling.

Teachers love PHS.

But it's such a long commute many of the better teachers won't even consider the drive.

Isn't it wonderful that the better teachers all live in Bethesda to teach at W schools? PHS students are happy with the teachers that they have. The distance actually keeps away the hoi polloi.

[Anonymous]

My SMCS junior is not sleeping late. He does an hour or two of work each night but he has been finishing his work at school since he was in ES so that is not a surprise. 5s on all APs, straight As, super high scores on SAT, internships in summer, 2 ECs etc. I think most of his close friends are in the same boat.

His cousin goes to TJ and that sounds tough to us. PHS is very chilled and is not a pressure cooker school by any means. The student body is very collaborative.

[Anonymous]

If the kids struggle that much in PHS, they should transfer back to their home school. Growing up healthy and happy is the most important.

Most PHS kids end up going to UMD anyway...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does a kid have to love math to tolerate having a longer school day than everyone else?

The Long day is brutal, you have to REALLY love math. Kids wake up at 5:30-6 am to take a 6:45 bus and many don’t get home until 5-5:30 pm. It’s ridiculous that the hardest program at Poolesville is the one with the longest day. Many kids don’t go to bed until like 1 a.m. almost everyday, not just several times a quarter before a big test/project. It’s almost everyday on very little sleep.

That sounds unbelievably unhealthy. Mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Yes. SMCS is for gifted students. Please stop pushing non-gifted students in the name of equity to this program. These kids are suffering. Be happy with the bright kids you have. Why is that not enough for parents? Why do they want their kid to be a genius when they don't have the talent and natural ability.

Please don't try and lower ceilings to accommodate everyone. It is supposed to be for highly gifted children and no one is benefiting from MCPS diluting the program for kids who are suffering to fit in.

What an arrogant and misguided response and an attempt a propaganda to boot (to dissuade potential competition?).

Magnet parent w/ kid now at Ivy here. It is a brutal day, especially for kids w/ long commute and who have numerous activities. Some is commute, some is extra class, some is student driven activities/enrichment, some parent-driven activities/enrichment. It doesn't have to be unhealthy, but parent pressure to be "geniuses" in a variety of areas exacerbates the intense work already in the program (PP seems a poster parent for this -- of course she thinks her kid is the genius as they drive themselves into the ground). Add a long commute and it could easily be unhealthy. It's important to remember to breathe with these programs. The course offerings are a real asset, but kids need to stay healthy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much does a kid have to love math to tolerate having a longer school day than everyone else?

The Long day is brutal, you have to REALLY love math. Kids wake up at 5:30-6 am to take a 6:45 bus and many don’t get home until 5-5:30 pm. It’s ridiculous that the hardest program at Poolesville is the one with the longest day. Many kids don’t go to bed until like 1 a.m. almost everyday, not just several times a quarter before a big test/project. It’s almost everyday on very little sleep.

That sounds unbelievably unhealthy. Mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Yes. SMCS is for gifted students. Please stop pushing non-gifted students in the name of equity to this program. These kids are suffering. Be happy with the bright kids you have. Why is that not enough for parents? Why do they want their kid to be a genius when they don't have the talent and natural ability.

Please don't try and lower ceilings to accommodate everyone. It is supposed to be for highly gifted children and no one is benefiting from MCPS diluting the program for kids who are suffering to fit in.

What an arrogant and misguided response and an attempt a propaganda to boot (to dissuade potential competition?).

Magnet parent w/ kid now at Ivy here. It is a brutal day, especially for kids w/ long commute and who have numerous activities. Some is commute, some is extra class, some is student driven activities/enrichment, some parent-driven activities/enrichment. It doesn't have to be unhealthy, but parent pressure to be "geniuses" in a variety of areas exacerbates the intense work already in the program (PP seems a poster parent for this -- of course she thinks her kid is the genius as they drive themselves into the ground). Add a long commute and it could easily be unhealthy. It's important to remember to breathe with these programs. The course offerings are a real asset, but kids need to stay healthy.

A kid who is struggling and putting insane amount of hours in this program to barely get Bs and Cs - is not any sort of potential competition. And the kid who is doing this program with ease? That kid knows what he is doing and no propaganda is going to change his mind.

[Anonymous]

I really like the school and the program. I do feel sorry for the students who are going through the recent capital improvements because it is very disruptive.

[Anonymous]

I would like to thank OP and a few other folks who shared their experience with PHS.
My DS is applying this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the MAP score of your kids last year? Thanks

290

Is this for MAP-R or MAP-M?