I have a freshman at Poolesville smacs program AMA

[Anonymous]

Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard many teacher doesn’t like to travel to poolesville so some classes are taught by inconsistent substitutes.

You heard wrong. What I know is that teachers actually love PHS because it is at least 3/4th magnet, with a well-behaved high performing student body (#1 in MD) and everybody is focused on education. Unlike Blair which is like a school within a school. Outside of the magnet program, the student body is really struggling.

Teachers love PHS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s the MAP score of your kids last year? Thanks

290

Do they check grades for all the subjects or just Math, computers, science.
Also MAP R?

Only math and science. Not map-r

No map-R even for humanity program?

Presumably yes, but this thread is about SMACS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

Op here. Thank you for your insightful words. It makes understanding the situation we are in a little bit better.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous]Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college. [/quote]

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

I think the difference is more likely to be attributable to individual student variables. I had 2 kids go through the Blair magnet (before the admission process changed. One student was a type A personality - very organized, very efficient, very driven. The other was less efficient and struggled with perfectionist tendencies. The former had a lot of homework, but managed to maintain extracurriculars, spend time with family and friends, and still get some sleep, even if I’d have preferred they got more. The latter was just as smart, but practically drowned in homework and ended up burning out. Both kids had been in magnet programs since the HGC in 4th grade, which provided excellent preparation for advanced work. They experienced minimal rigor before that.

Course choice has a lot to do with it as well. I don’t know if the Poolesville magnet has a Functions class, but it’s an insane arrangement that condenses the first three semesters into two. It was a burden, even for the first student I described. These kids want to learn so much that they seek out the most intensive classes. If they take the harder magnet classes, AP core classes and AP electives, it’s going to add up. If you can talk them into taking a fun, low pressure elective, or even a study hall, it can make a significant difference.

I don’t know about the Poolesville schedule, but Blaire magnet students take 8 courses a semester. Depending on their choices, this can mean 8 college level courses when a full college load is usually about five. In fact, many magnet alumni will tell you how much easier college is than high school.

FWIW, although their bus ride wasn’t as long as your child’s, it was still significant. I told them when they were first considering the middle school magnet that they would need to schedule it as part of their day. One made friends on the bus and used it as their time for socializing. The other either did homework or slept. It wasn’t just bus time, it was social time, study hall, and nap.

[Anonymous]

Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

I think the difference is more likely to be attributable to individual student variables. I had 2 kids go through the Blair magnet (before the admission process changed. One student was a type A personality - very organized, very efficient, very driven. The other was less efficient and struggled with perfectionist tendencies. The former had a lot of homework, but managed to maintain extracurriculars, spend time with family and friends, and still get some sleep, even if I’d have preferred they got more. The latter was just as smart, but practically drowned in homework and ended up burning out. Both kids had been in magnet programs since the HGC in 4th grade, which provided excellent preparation for advanced work. They experienced minimal rigor before that.

Course choice has a lot to do with it as well. I don’t know if the Poolesville magnet has a Functions class, but it’s an insane arrangement that condenses the first three semesters into two. It was a burden, even for the first student I described. These kids want to learn so much that they seek out the most intensive classes. If they take the harder magnet classes, AP core classes and AP electives, it’s going to add up. If you can talk them into taking a fun, low pressure elective, or even a study hall, it can make a significant difference.

I don’t know about the Poolesville schedule, but Blaire magnet students take 8 courses a semester. Depending on their choices, this can mean 8 college level courses when a full college load is usually about five. In fact, many magnet alumni will tell you how much easier college is than high school.

FWIW, although their bus ride wasn’t as long as your child’s, it was still significant. I told them when they were first considering the middle school magnet that they would need to schedule it as part of their day. One made friends on the bus and used it as their time for socializing. The other either did homework or slept. It wasn’t just bus time, it was social time, study hall, and nap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard many teacher doesn’t like to travel to poolesville so some classes are taught by inconsistent substitutes.

You heard wrong. What I know is that teachers actually love PHS because it is at least 3/4th magnet, with a well-behaved high performing student body (#1 in MD) and everybody is focused on education. Unlike Blair which is like a school within a school. Outside of the magnet program, the student body is really struggling.

Teachers love PHS.

But it's such a long commute many of the better teachers won't even consider the drive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

Op here. Thank you for your insightful words. It makes understanding the situation we are in a little bit better.

Before the lottery brought on by the pandemic, the selection for these programs was at an all-time high. They had gotten rid of all the BS which allowed wealthy families to game admission and had instead tried to focus purely on ability instead of prep. Many students admitted under the old system would test high because of years of outside enrichment but lacked the natural ability to do well and often struggled with the coursework. Today's students seem even more able than in years past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

My kid went to Blair in the "old days." I don't know about Poolesville or Clemente leadership or teachers, but what this PP claims about admission indicating brilliance in the past and current "watered down" admissions and general arrogant attitude of some kind of omniscience regarding hs and college ed is a load of bunk. Blech.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

My kid went to Blair in the "old days." I don't know about Poolesville or Clemente leadership or teachers, but what this PP claims about admission indicating brilliance in the past and current "watered down" admissions and general arrogant attitude of some kind of omniscience regarding hs and college ed is a load of bunk. Blech.

I had one at Blair back then too, and a freshman and senior there now. The curriculum is much better today than 8 years ago. It seems more refined and organized than before. By any objective measure, the program is stronger than ever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I heard many teacher doesn’t like to travel to poolesville so some classes are taught by inconsistent substitutes.

You heard wrong. What I know is that teachers actually love PHS because it is at least 3/4th magnet, with a well-behaved high performing student body (#1 in MD) and everybody is focused on education. Unlike Blair which is like a school within a school. Outside of the magnet program, the student body is really struggling.

Teachers love PHS.

But it's such a long commute many of the better teachers won't even consider the drive.

This makes zero sense. The length of commute depends on where you live, right? So why would “better” teachers necessarily only live on the other side of the county, or in DC or in PG county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

My kid went to Blair in the "old days." I don't know about Poolesville or Clemente leadership or teachers, but what this PP claims about admission indicating brilliance in the past and current "watered down" admissions and general arrogant attitude of some kind of omniscience regarding hs and college ed is a load of bunk. Blech.

I had one at Blair back then too, and a freshman and senior there now. The curriculum is much better today than 8 years ago. It seems more refined and organized than before. By any objective measure, the program is stronger than ever.

Some parents are always looking to complain. If there was any truth to half of what they say civilization would've ended several thousand years ago since every generation appears to be worse than the previous and we're in a constant state of decline i.e. "The sky is falling" syndrome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

My kid went to Blair in the "old days." I don't know about Poolesville or Clemente leadership or teachers, but what this PP claims about admission indicating brilliance in the past and current "watered down" admissions and general arrogant attitude of some kind of omniscience regarding hs and college ed is a load of bunk. Blech.

Haha I agree 100%. I’ve met so many magnet parents like this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

My kid went to Blair in the "old days." I don't know about Poolesville or Clemente leadership or teachers, but what this PP claims about admission indicating brilliance in the past and current "watered down" admissions and general arrogant attitude of some kind of omniscience regarding hs and college ed is a load of bunk. Blech.

Haha I agree 100%. I’ve met so many magnet parents like this one.

Ya me too. Really makes me laugh. The actual statistics show the opposite is true, but they love to pretend things were better in some imaginary past.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oops! The quote shading was dropped on my previous post, so I’m trying again.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry OP. I think the magnet ES and MS has been watered down over the years. Even the selection criteria has been watered down for the incoming students. My kid (2022) was the last batch before selection criteria started to go down and RCMS (Roberto) and admin really screwed the program up. Horrible Principal and horrible magnet coordinator last I heard, Also so many experienced magnet teachers left and the selection criteria was such that it was picking up bright but not brilliant kids. So sorry.

Yes, my kids found PHS SMCS quite manageable because they had learned to organize their work and time very well and were doing a lot more challenging work from their time in HGC (later CES) days. Even the entrance exams were extremely hard and kids really had to be brilliant to be selected.

The previous batches also found college quite manageable because this kind of rigor has become a habit since before 3rd grade.

I think asking alums about the workload is very misleading because our children had their education in a very different MCPS.

The good thing is that the rigor and the difficulty they will endure in PHS (even watered down) will probably help them a lot in college. You do have to pay the piper sometime in life. Better in HS than in college.

I disagree that the reason your child is finding the workload heavier than expected is because he is “bright but not brilliant”.

I’m sure the COVID disruption left some weak areas, but I’m not convinced the new selection criteria weakened the overall performance level of the selected students. I was very concerned when they changed the criteria for the middle school magnets, but from what I’ve been able to glean from DCUM, the student quality remains high. MCPS needs to expand the number of slots. I’ve thought for years that once they narrowed the pool to the top students, it basically came down to chance as to which magnet caliber students were admitted and which were denied. It’s hard to tell with the process being so opaque, but it may well be that they’re still picking top students, but weighing the chance of admission for and against certain groups.

The new criteria favored the more naturally gifted over the prep squad. As a teacher, I could see the crop was more able to pick up new concepts and adapt compared with the kids admitted under the old system who often struggled to keep up since all that prep made them appear gifted but the reality was they were just average kids. Many of the new kids started out with less but quickly surpassed the kids admitted under the old system because of their innate talent.