“Due dates” and “deadlines”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are laughing their asses off that they are allowed to turn in work whenever they want as long as it is before the end of the grading period. It won't be so funny when they fail their college classes because schools have trained them that learning is the most important thing, no matter when it happens.

This comment makes no sense. There are still consequences to turning work in late, even if it’s not getting a zero. If you end up with a C in a class instead of an A because it’s all late, it’s not so funny.

What are they? My kid can turn in work up until the last day in the quarter without any late penalty. He can turn in work from the first week nine weeks later and he gets the same grade as everyone who turned it in when it was due.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are laughing their asses off that they are allowed to turn in work whenever they want as long as it is before the end of the grading period. It won't be so funny when they fail their college classes because schools have trained them that learning is the most important thing, no matter when it happens.

This comment makes no sense. There are still consequences to turning work in late, even if it’s not getting a zero. If you end up with a C in a class instead of an A because it’s all late, it’s not so funny.

What are they? My kid can turn in work up until the last day in the quarter without any late penalty. He can turn in work from the first week nine weeks later and he gets the same grade as everyone who turned it in when it was due.

That’s a decision by the teacher, not MCPS policy. MCPS policy encourages penalties for work not submitted by the due date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are laughing their asses off that they are allowed to turn in work whenever they want as long as it is before the end of the grading period. It won't be so funny when they fail their college classes because schools have trained them that learning is the most important thing, no matter when it happens.

This comment makes no sense. There are still consequences to turning work in late, even if it’s not getting a zero. If you end up with a C in a class instead of an A because it’s all late, it’s not so funny.

What are they? My kid can turn in work up until the last day in the quarter without any late penalty. He can turn in work from the first week nine weeks later and he gets the same grade as everyone who turned it in when it was due.

That’s a decision by the teacher, not MCPS policy. MCPS policy encourages penalties for work not submitted by the due date.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are laughing their asses off that they are allowed to turn in work whenever they want as long as it is before the end of the grading period. It won't be so funny when they fail their college classes because schools have trained them that learning is the most important thing, no matter when it happens.

This comment makes no sense. There are still consequences to turning work in late, even if it’s not getting a zero. If you end up with a C in a class instead of an A because it’s all late, it’s not so funny.

What are they? My kid can turn in work up until the last day in the quarter without any late penalty. He can turn in work from the first week nine weeks later and he gets the same grade as everyone who turned it in when it was due.

That’s a decision by the teacher, not MCPS policy. MCPS policy encourages penalties for work not submitted by the due date.

MCPS policy specifically provides that work submitted after the due date but before the deadline may be reduced 10% or one full letter grade. If your kid’s teacher is doing something different, it’s because they have made the individual decision not to penalize late work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids are laughing their asses off that they are allowed to turn in work whenever they want as long as it is before the end of the grading period. It won't be so funny when they fail their college classes because schools have trained them that learning is the most important thing, no matter when it happens.

This comment makes no sense. There are still consequences to turning work in late, even if it’s not getting a zero. If you end up with a C in a class instead of an A because it’s all late, it’s not so funny.

The maximum late penalty is -10%. You would have a B instead of an A.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At BTSN last night we heard all about the difference between “due dates” and “deadlines.” I am a college professor and am so frustrated that this is what the kids learn at such an early age. The quality of students I see is going steadily down, with increased entitlement and expectations that course requirements are subject to negotiation, and now I have no question as to why that is. Its the same absurdity as the 50% rule.

Middle school kids (11-13 yr olds) and high school kids (14-17 yr olds) are very different from college students (18-21 yr olds) and their developmental capabilities are taken into consideration while they are learning how to organize and manage themselves. The reason for a difference between a due date and a deadline is so that there is an opportunity to intervene when a student misses the due date. MS & HS also have to account for students with accommodations who get 1.5x time or 2.0x to complete assignments. This year it was clarified that time accommodations apply to the due dates, not the deadlines. Teachers are supposed to set deadlines so that students with extended time have enough time to meet them. In practice, as students get to higher grades or take harder (AP/IB) classes, the flexibility should diminish.

If you are complaining about the most recent college students, remember that they just had 3 years where almost all accountability was thrown out due to the pandemic. This year MCPS is re-establishing previous practices, which will take a while to filter up to college enrollees.

Ohhh look how sanctimonious. Can you site any research for your insinuations? or is this something you pulled out of your seat?

You seem to totally underestimate the capabilities of students now a days.

Cite,
Nowadays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We are talking about adults who will be out in the work world very soon. I'd give one day's grace period but after that, you get nada. As far as what the student learned, they learned a very valuable lesson. Turn is stuff on time.

And if you taught in MCPS, you would not be allowed to set this policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we accept the premise that doing the assignments is part of the learning process, and that learning improves when students do the assignments, the value to this is obvious. In a system where not turning something in be the original due date means you get a zero no matter what, there is no incentive for a student who misses the original due date to ever do the assignment because they get a zero either way, and that student then misses the educational value of the assignment. Allowing partial credit for work turned in after the due date but before the deadline means a student who misses the due date for whatever reason still has an incentive to completely the assignment, and thus to get the educational value of the assignment. If the goal is education, why wouldn’t we want a system that incentivizes learning?

Because the student could also be completing the assignment AND meeting the deadline/due date, whatever you call it.

But what happens when they miss it? Sometimes that happens, especially if a student is struggling with an assignment and don’t get it done in time, or simply get the due dates confused. This will happen at times, and it’s not in the student’s best interest to discourage them from making up the work.

They will get a bad grade on an assignment, and despite the angst exhibited by many of you, their life will turn out OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we accept the premise that doing the assignments is part of the learning process, and that learning improves when students do the assignments, the value to this is obvious. In a system where not turning something in be the original due date means you get a zero no matter what, there is no incentive for a student who misses the original due date to ever do the assignment because they get a zero either way, and that student then misses the educational value of the assignment. Allowing partial credit for work turned in after the due date but before the deadline means a student who misses the due date for whatever reason still has an incentive to completely the assignment, and thus to get the educational value of the assignment. If the goal is education, why wouldn’t we want a system that incentivizes learning?

Because the student could also be completing the assignment AND meeting the deadline/due date, whatever you call it.

But what happens when they miss it? Sometimes that happens, especially if a student is struggling with an assignment and don’t get it done in time, or simply get the due dates confused. This will happen at times, and it’s not in the student’s best interest to discourage them from making up the work.

They will get a bad grade on an assignment, and despite the angst exhibited by many of you, their life will turn out OK.

That can already happen under the current policy.

[Anonymous]

I'm confused by this discussion-- I think different schools must have different policies.

My kid showed me an email/letter that looked official (?) that said that WCHS's policy this year was that there would be no penalty for late work, as long as it is submitted by interims/finals. I wasn't able to go to parent night, so haven't confirmed. I don't think kid was lying but it's possible that it was one teacher's policy and kid assumed it was a general one. (But we discussed this possibility and kid swears it is school-wide.)

It sounds like that's not the case across all schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we accept the premise that doing the assignments is part of the learning process, and that learning improves when students do the assignments, the value to this is obvious. In a system where not turning something in be the original due date means you get a zero no matter what, there is no incentive for a student who misses the original due date to ever do the assignment because they get a zero either way, and that student then misses the educational value of the assignment. Allowing partial credit for work turned in after the due date but before the deadline means a student who misses the due date for whatever reason still has an incentive to completely the assignment, and thus to get the educational value of the assignment. If the goal is education, why wouldn’t we want a system that incentivizes learning?

Because the student could also be completing the assignment AND meeting the deadline/due date, whatever you call it.

But what happens when they miss it? Sometimes that happens, especially if a student is struggling with an assignment and don’t get it done in time, or simply get the due dates confused. This will happen at times, and it’s not in the student’s best interest to discourage them from making up the work.

They will get a bad grade on an assignment, and despite the angst exhibited by many of you, their life will turn out OK.

Only if you think a B is a bad grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are talking about adults who will be out in the work world very soon. I'd give one day's grace period but after that, you get nada. As far as what the student learned, they learned a very valuable lesson. Turn is stuff on time.

12 yo middle schoolers are not adults about to be out in the work force.

Yes, but this is a lesson that most of us learned once in middle school and then we moved on. You are infantilizing teenagers.

I guess because I went to private school (Sidwell) we had due dates and deadlines 30 years ago. We learned that work didn't disappear because we slacked.

That is an important lesson. It was thrown to the wayside in Spring 2020. It’s been a struggle to get it back. Erring on the side of the student should mean giving them an opportunity to turn in the work, not a one shot deal.
—MCPS middle school teacher.

It’s a bit surprising that an MCPS teacher doesn’t know this policy long pre-dates the pandemic.

Thrown to wayside means set aside. If something was set aside for a period of time, it existed beforehand.